• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:51
CEST 15:51
KST 22:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202521Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder2EWC 2025 - Replay Pack2Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced35BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Serral wins EWC 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Shield Battery Server New Patch Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Help: rep cant save [G] Progamer Settings StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL] Non-Korean Championship - Final weekend [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Flash @ Namkraft Laddernet …
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 596 users

First Love

Blogs > Shady Sands
Post a Reply
Normal
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 00:56:24
September 03 2012 00:47 GMT
#1
So the first time I ever told a girl I loved her was in my freshman year of high school.

We first met, like high school debaters usually did, in the cafeteria while we were waiting for rounds to post. She was twirling a pen around when she dropped it and I picked it up for her.

Her name was Alex. I was 14 and a debater, she was 15 and a debater from another school. She was really, really pretty, half-Japanese, and had this cute librarian look about her--thick glasses, long, straight black hair, big brown eyes and pale, almost porcelain skin.

We got to know each other over the course of the day. It helped that we ended up squaring off in prelims, where she beat me, and then the next day I beat her in the quarterfinals. I remember she said: "you're only a freshman, you aren't supposed to be doing this well", except I was thinking it too, so we said that last part of the sentence together. She smiled at me for the first time that day.

I lost in the semis and we spent the rest of that Saturday sitting together and watching episodes of The Wire on portable DVD player. When the day ended, we swapped phone numbers; she called first. I was so surprised I remember running towards the phone, tripping, and falling flat when my mom told me that some girl named Alex was looking for me.

So after that we went out on a few dates. Her school was a private college prep school; her dad was a judge and her mom was an international trade lawyer. She always paid.

Summer came around and I started to hang out at her house. That was the first time I ever got to sit in a Jacuzzi. We worked out this routine... each morning, my mom would drop me off at this library branch close by her house, and I would call her from the library payphone to see if I could come over. We used to sit on her parents' bed, fool around, naked (she taught me a lot in that department), and watch TV (mostly old movies) until around 4PM, when I would sneak out of her house and bike back to the library to pretend to my mom that I'd been studying for the PSATs (gotta love Chinese parents lol.)

I remember her miso soup and sushi... so good. She used to make this sushi roll with scallops, spicy mayonnaise, avocado, jalapenos, and tobiko. I gained 10 pounds that summer, ruined my swimming times for the entire next season. It was after one such meal, where we were just sitting on the couch, that she told me she loved me too. I believed her.

Near the end of that summer, she stopped picking up my phone calls. I didn't get it until the school year started and we met at another debate tournament and she was holding some other guy's hand. She never told me why, and I never asked.

We had dinner in San Francisco two weeks ago. She ended up going to Stanford Law School and now she's going to clerk for the 9th Circuit Court. She has an old-money Japanese boyfriend. We reminisced about old times and people long past, before she went back to her place, and me back to the hotel room. Dinner was still sushi, but at least I paid for it.

****
Что?
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
September 03 2012 01:09 GMT
#2
At least you can pay for sushi now. Better to have loved and lost and all that stuff.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
September 03 2012 01:15 GMT
#3
My days of high school public forum debate were some of the best of my life. I used to so look forward to slappin on my finest suit and hanging all Saturday with many of the most intelligent kids I knew growing up. Excellent story, I have a few that are quite similar
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 01:26 GMT
#4
On September 03 2012 10:15 farvacola wrote:
My days of high school public forum debate were some of the best of my life. I used to so look forward to slappin on my finest suit and hanging all Saturday with many of the most intelligent kids I knew growing up. Excellent story, I have a few that are quite similar

Awww you were a PFDer? I tried that for a quarter but I could never get used to it because I never got the hang of the crossfire segment. I was always too quiet, lol
Что?
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 01:26 GMT
#5
On September 03 2012 10:09 Jaaaaasper wrote:
At least you can pay for sushi now. Better to have loved and lost and all that stuff.


Yepyep. Love and lost...
Что?
sorrowptoss
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1431 Posts
September 03 2012 01:32 GMT
#6
Delicious blog entry.

So... your mom never knew about what you guys were doing at her place? Forever thinking that you were studying?
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 01:34 GMT
#7
On September 03 2012 10:32 sorrowptoss wrote:
Delicious blog entry.

So... your mom never knew about what you guys were doing at her place? Forever thinking that you were studying?

Yeah... as far as she knew I was a really studious kid growing up, since I never did badly on the tests, and she was really busy with her job
Что?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
September 03 2012 01:42 GMT
#8
On September 03 2012 10:26 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 10:15 farvacola wrote:
My days of high school public forum debate were some of the best of my life. I used to so look forward to slappin on my finest suit and hanging all Saturday with many of the most intelligent kids I knew growing up. Excellent story, I have a few that are quite similar

Awww you were a PFDer? I tried that for a quarter but I could never get used to it because I never got the hang of the crossfire segment. I was always too quiet, lol

Yes sir, crossfire was one of the reasons I took to PF as well as I did, I was a smart-ass, loud-mouthed fat kid with a loud voice and a knack for excellent impromptu 1 minute closers. Winning debates and nerding out with kids who loved to "talk smart" fed my young ego like no other. I take it you were in LD?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 01:48 GMT
#9
On September 03 2012 10:42 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 10:26 Shady Sands wrote:
On September 03 2012 10:15 farvacola wrote:
My days of high school public forum debate were some of the best of my life. I used to so look forward to slappin on my finest suit and hanging all Saturday with many of the most intelligent kids I knew growing up. Excellent story, I have a few that are quite similar

Awww you were a PFDer? I tried that for a quarter but I could never get used to it because I never got the hang of the crossfire segment. I was always too quiet, lol

Yes sir, crossfire was one of the reasons I took to PF as well as I did, I was a smart-ass, loud-mouthed fat kid with a loud voice and a knack for excellent impromptu 1 minute closers. Winning debates and nerding out with kids who loved to "talk smart" fed my young ego like no other. I take it you were in LD?

Heh yep. I loved philosophy and trapping people with their own logical holes. Always viewed LD as a something like the verbal equivalent of a chess match or a fencing match. And yes, I was an egotistical bastard too haha, though very quiet about it

Good times. I might post a case I used to run sometime, we'll see if I can find it
Что?
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
September 03 2012 02:28 GMT
#10
I assume this isn't the one you screwed over since you were able to meet up and whatnot? Unless she doesn't know about it do this day? :o at least it wasn't awkward even though you guys had fooled around naked in high school or what have you.

This thing reads like a short story interesting stuff, can't say I've ever had a quarter as interesting of an experience overall, compared to most of TL's high school or general youth stories.
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 02:35 GMT
#11
On September 03 2012 11:28 Aerisky wrote:
I assume this isn't the one you screwed over since you were able to meet up and whatnot? Unless she doesn't know about it do this day? :o at least it wasn't awkward even though you guys had fooled around naked in high school or what have you.

This thing reads like a short story interesting stuff, can't say I've ever had a quarter as interesting of an experience overall, compared to most of TL's high school or general youth stories.

Nope, that was girlfriend number two

three gfs in high school

freshman year was the half-japanese girl
sophomore year was the indian girl
junior-senior year was a white girl

no chinese girl, much to my parents' disappointment
Что?
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
September 03 2012 02:41 GMT
#12
Oh I see. Your poor parents.

Yeah your guys' lives are way more interesting than mine. Maybe one day something crazy will happen to me that's worth sharing.
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
September 03 2012 02:45 GMT
#13
On September 03 2012 11:41 Aerisky wrote:
Oh I see. Your poor parents.

Yeah your guys' lives are way more interesting than mine. Maybe one day something crazy will happen to me that's worth sharing.

Don't worry, your life is more interesting than mine :D
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
September 03 2012 02:50 GMT
#14
I'm really intrigued that you were supposed to be studying for the PSATs. The only place those are useful are for Nat. Merit Scholarship. And even then you don't need much, at least not compared to what you need on the SATs. You sound really smart, or at least studious.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 02:53 GMT
#15
On September 03 2012 11:50 obesechicken13 wrote:
I'm really intrigued that you were supposed to be studying for the PSATs. The only place those are useful are for Nat. Merit Scholarship. And even then you don't need much, at least not compared to what you need on the SATs. You sound really smart, or at least studious.

Actually it was just my parents being strict, lol
I didn't mind it. It was summer and the library had free internet tucked in a corner room
Что?
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
September 03 2012 02:54 GMT
#16
On September 03 2012 11:45 TehTemplar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 11:41 Aerisky wrote:
Oh I see. Your poor parents.

Yeah your guys' lives are way more interesting than mine. Maybe one day something crazy will happen to me that's worth sharing.

Don't worry, your life is more interesting than mine :D

Aww no worries, I'm sure you've had interesting stuff happen to you too ><

I dunno, guess his parents figured that studying for PSAT is more or less equivalent to studying for the SAT or something?
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 03:03 GMT
#17
On September 03 2012 11:54 Aerisky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 11:45 TehTemplar wrote:
On September 03 2012 11:41 Aerisky wrote:
Oh I see. Your poor parents.

Yeah your guys' lives are way more interesting than mine. Maybe one day something crazy will happen to me that's worth sharing.

Don't worry, your life is more interesting than mine :D

Aww no worries, I'm sure you've had interesting stuff happen to you too ><

I dunno, guess his parents figured that studying for PSAT is more or less equivalent to studying for the SAT or something?

Nah, they said something along the lines of: "we are poor, if you get the national merit scholarship, you'll save the family money"
Что?
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
September 03 2012 03:31 GMT
#18
On September 03 2012 12:03 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 11:54 Aerisky wrote:
On September 03 2012 11:45 TehTemplar wrote:
On September 03 2012 11:41 Aerisky wrote:
Oh I see. Your poor parents.

Yeah your guys' lives are way more interesting than mine. Maybe one day something crazy will happen to me that's worth sharing.

Don't worry, your life is more interesting than mine :D

Aww no worries, I'm sure you've had interesting stuff happen to you too ><

I dunno, guess his parents figured that studying for PSAT is more or less equivalent to studying for the SAT or something?

Nah, they said something along the lines of: "we are poor, if you get the national merit scholarship, you'll save the family money"

Well, that does make a lot of sense, for what it's worth
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
September 03 2012 03:48 GMT
#19
Do you resent the new boyfriend? You mention that he's old money. When people talk about old money they usually mean they don't like them because they'll never have to work hard in their life.

Entertaining read nonetheless.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 03:57:01
September 03 2012 03:56 GMT
#20
On September 03 2012 12:48 obesechicken13 wrote:
Do you resent the new boyfriend? You mention that he's old money. When people talk about old money they usually mean they don't like them because they'll never have to work hard in their life.

Entertaining read nonetheless.

Nah not really. Can't really hate rich people. Alex was old money too... her mom was actually related to Yoko Ono, who herself comes from the Yasuda family of Japanese finance.
Что?
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
September 03 2012 04:05 GMT
#21
Great blog dude . I hope my life doesn't go this way haha, my gf is a sophomore, she told me she loved (still does) about 5 months ago, 3 months into us dating and I haven't stopped loving since. Though I'm glad to hear that you had some fun nekked times .
User was warned for too many mimes.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 05:07 GMT
#22
On September 03 2012 13:05 docvoc wrote:
Great blog dude . I hope my life doesn't go this way haha, my gf is a sophomore, she told me she loved (still does) about 5 months ago, 3 months into us dating and I haven't stopped loving since. Though I'm glad to hear that you had some fun nekked times .

If she's the right one, don't let her go, don't let her go.

But most girls aren't the right ones lol
Что?
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 05:21 GMT
#23
So jelly about the girl and the debate experience.
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Deleted User 255289
Profile Joined March 2012
281 Posts
September 03 2012 05:30 GMT
#24
Seems like debating is quite popular these days.
Zerg OP | CreansRNub | k-Poop | Zerg OP | Sea lions | \\m//
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 05:46 GMT
#25
Or there are many debaters on TL.
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
September 03 2012 06:24 GMT
#26
On September 03 2012 14:46 Azera wrote:
Or there are many debaters on TL.

Fact. Sooo many debaters on TL :D

Prae is as well I believe.
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
The_LiNk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada863 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 06:53:43
September 03 2012 06:53 GMT
#27
K so how did you end up in a dinner with her. I know it's a very drama-esque thing to just go to the shot 10 years later where they're mutual friends now and having a pleasant dinner and then the ending theme comes up, but something happens for that to go down and that in itself is probably a whole season.

Would like to know, will be useful for me personally. I mean like, keeping the friend thing.
Luepert
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1933 Posts
September 03 2012 06:55 GMT
#28
I wish my school had debate. I love to argue lol. Nerds at my school just have quizbowl instead.
esports
aRyuujin
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5049 Posts
September 03 2012 07:02 GMT
#29
On September 03 2012 15:24 Aerisky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 14:46 Azera wrote:
Or there are many debaters on TL.

Fact. Sooo many debaters on TL :D

Prae is as well I believe.



why don't we have a big debate thread then
sigh...
i'm a current high school pfer.

Interesting story, but like others, I'm wondering why it wasn't ultra awkward for you guys :O

can i get my estro logo back pls
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 07:09:13
September 03 2012 07:08 GMT
#30
On September 03 2012 15:53 The_LiNk wrote:
K so how did you end up in a dinner with her. I know it's a very drama-esque thing to just go to the shot 10 years later where they're mutual friends now and having a pleasant dinner and then the ending theme comes up, but something happens for that to go down and that in itself is probably a whole season.

Would like to know, will be useful for me personally. I mean like, keeping the friend thing.


Wonders of facebook, I guess. Had a vague recollection that she was going to Stanford Law, so I decided to give her a call and see if she wanted to meet up. Turns out she had a bit of spare time, and that was that.

The dinner wasn't awkward because neither of us brought up the break-up. We just talked about other stuff. I mean, we talked about mutual friends we had while we were dating, but nothing directly related to our relationship.

It also helps that both her and I are involved with other people right now
Что?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
September 03 2012 07:13 GMT
#31
On September 03 2012 16:02 aRyuujin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 15:24 Aerisky wrote:
On September 03 2012 14:46 Azera wrote:
Or there are many debaters on TL.

Fact. Sooo many debaters on TL :D

Prae is as well I believe.



why don't we have a big debate thread then
sigh...
i'm a current high school pfer.

Interesting story, but like others, I'm wondering why it wasn't ultra awkward for you guys :O


I think having a big debate thread is a cool idea, only I'm not entirely sure what would be discussed, how the discussion would be carried out, and whether or not a thread full of debaters could remain open for long
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 07:22:14
September 03 2012 07:19 GMT
#32
On September 03 2012 16:02 aRyuujin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 15:24 Aerisky wrote:
On September 03 2012 14:46 Azera wrote:
Or there are many debaters on TL.

Fact. Sooo many debaters on TL :D

Prae is as well I believe.



why don't we have a big debate thread then
sigh...
i'm a current high school pfer.

Interesting story, but like others, I'm wondering why it wasn't ultra awkward for you guys :O



FUCKING YES. DEBATE THREAD. I WILL DO IT. GIVE ME TIME.

Edit: In the spur of the moment I forgot that I actually know next to nothing about standard debate formats.
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 07:30 GMT
#33
On September 03 2012 16:19 Azera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 16:02 aRyuujin wrote:
On September 03 2012 15:24 Aerisky wrote:
On September 03 2012 14:46 Azera wrote:
Or there are many debaters on TL.

Fact. Sooo many debaters on TL :D

Prae is as well I believe.



why don't we have a big debate thread then
sigh...
i'm a current high school pfer.

Interesting story, but like others, I'm wondering why it wasn't ultra awkward for you guys :O



FUCKING YES. DEBATE THREAD. I WILL DO IT. GIVE ME TIME.

Edit: In the spur of the moment I forgot that I actually know next to nothing about standard debate formats.

Should it be under Sports and Games or TL General?
Что?
The_LiNk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada863 Posts
September 03 2012 07:31 GMT
#34
On September 03 2012 16:08 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 15:53 The_LiNk wrote:
K so how did you end up in a dinner with her. I know it's a very drama-esque thing to just go to the shot 10 years later where they're mutual friends now and having a pleasant dinner and then the ending theme comes up, but something happens for that to go down and that in itself is probably a whole season.

Would like to know, will be useful for me personally. I mean like, keeping the friend thing.


Wonders of facebook, I guess. Had a vague recollection that she was going to Stanford Law, so I decided to give her a call and see if she wanted to meet up. Turns out she had a bit of spare time, and that was that.

The dinner wasn't awkward because neither of us brought up the break-up. We just talked about other stuff. I mean, we talked about mutual friends we had while we were dating, but nothing directly related to our relationship.

It also helps that both her and I are involved with other people right now


Huh, being civil. That's quite a novel idea. I should really try that sometime.

I swear this is going to happen to me in a few years. The plot of a drama is being written as I type. I will keep your advice close to heart.

Thanks for the heads up!
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 07:35 GMT
#35
On September 03 2012 16:30 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 16:19 Azera wrote:
On September 03 2012 16:02 aRyuujin wrote:
On September 03 2012 15:24 Aerisky wrote:
On September 03 2012 14:46 Azera wrote:
Or there are many debaters on TL.

Fact. Sooo many debaters on TL :D

Prae is as well I believe.



why don't we have a big debate thread then
sigh...
i'm a current high school pfer.

Interesting story, but like others, I'm wondering why it wasn't ultra awkward for you guys :O



FUCKING YES. DEBATE THREAD. I WILL DO IT. GIVE ME TIME.

Edit: In the spur of the moment I forgot that I actually know next to nothing about standard debate formats.

Should it be under Sports and Games or TL General?


General. "TL Debate Thead" I have an idea on how it's going to work, but if anybody wants to do it I'll be glad to help :D
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
September 03 2012 07:42 GMT
#36
On September 03 2012 16:35 Azera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 16:30 Shady Sands wrote:
On September 03 2012 16:19 Azera wrote:
On September 03 2012 16:02 aRyuujin wrote:
On September 03 2012 15:24 Aerisky wrote:
On September 03 2012 14:46 Azera wrote:
Or there are many debaters on TL.

Fact. Sooo many debaters on TL :D

Prae is as well I believe.



why don't we have a big debate thread then
sigh...
i'm a current high school pfer.

Interesting story, but like others, I'm wondering why it wasn't ultra awkward for you guys :O



FUCKING YES. DEBATE THREAD. I WILL DO IT. GIVE ME TIME.

Edit: In the spur of the moment I forgot that I actually know next to nothing about standard debate formats.

Should it be under Sports and Games or TL General?


General. "TL Debate Thead" I have an idea on how it's going to work, but if anybody wants to do it I'll be glad to help :D

Same here!
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 07:42 GMT
#37
On September 03 2012 16:35 Azera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 16:30 Shady Sands wrote:
On September 03 2012 16:19 Azera wrote:
On September 03 2012 16:02 aRyuujin wrote:
On September 03 2012 15:24 Aerisky wrote:
On September 03 2012 14:46 Azera wrote:
Or there are many debaters on TL.

Fact. Sooo many debaters on TL :D

Prae is as well I believe.



why don't we have a big debate thread then
sigh...
i'm a current high school pfer.

Interesting story, but like others, I'm wondering why it wasn't ultra awkward for you guys :O



FUCKING YES. DEBATE THREAD. I WILL DO IT. GIVE ME TIME.

Edit: In the spur of the moment I forgot that I actually know next to nothing about standard debate formats.

Should it be under Sports and Games or TL General?


General. "TL Debate Thead" I have an idea on how it's going to work, but if anybody wants to do it I'll be glad to help :D

You do it. Read the bbcode thread beforehand tho for 1337 tips
Что?
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 07:50 GMT
#38
^
Blog bbcode formatting pro

Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 07:52 GMT
#39
Making the thread now. Any useful links you guys want me to include in the OP?
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 08:02 GMT
#40
On September 03 2012 16:52 Azera wrote:
Making the thread now. Any useful links you guys want me to include in the OP?

nflonline.org

link to US high school debating society

probably also split the article into 4 sections by debating format-- LD, Policy, Public Forum, and Parliamentary
Что?
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 08:07 GMT
#41
On September 03 2012 17:02 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 16:52 Azera wrote:
Making the thread now. Any useful links you guys want me to include in the OP?

nflonline.org

link to US high school debating society

probably also split the article into 4 sections by debating format-- LD, Policy, Public Forum, and Parliamentary


As I said I don't really have much knowledge about the formats, and it's going to be hard to hold a debate online with those formats. I'll PM what I have at the moment. Still deciding how quick-fire rounds are gonna work.

Thanks anyway!
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 08:09:36
September 03 2012 08:08 GMT
#42
On September 03 2012 16:52 Azera wrote:
Making the thread now. Any useful links you guys want me to include in the OP?

Well it is important we make a distinction between what sort of scope we are talking. In terms of high school debate in the United States, competition forms usually adhere to one of four standards:
Lincoln-Douglas Debate, being the OG form based on the 1858 hallmark exchanges between Abraham Lincoln and Stephen Douglas
Policy Debate, a fast paced, content centric debate that puts an emphasis on extended source supported position and cross examination over delivery or rigor
Public Forum Debate, inspired by the old CNN show Crossfire, this form focuses on effective, concise delivery in addition to impromptu adversarial questioning in crossfire rounds
Parliamentary Debate, a logic focused form that prohibits quoted evidence and relies on pure persuasion through logical exposition. Questions are allowed but can be ignored by either side at their behest, very much unlike the other three.

We should pick a conventional form and tailor it to forum standards. Use word counts instead of time limits or something like that.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 08:10 GMT
#43
Probably going to be Parliamentary Debate but with no questions.
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 08:19 GMT
#44
+ Show Spoiler +


TL Debates


  • How is this different from just having random discussion?
    - It doesn't differ from random discussion that much, but you will be able to easily find high quality arguments from the "official speakers", so you can easily filter through the bad posts to find the good ones.

  • How will this work?
    - 2 Teams, 4 people per team. Teams will work together via PMs. People can register by sending me a PM asking to be either the Proposition or Opposition. Only when you are officially registered will I send you a PM of the motion.

  • What you just said sounds messy!
    - Teams will not post their speeches on the thread itself. After I have given the teams the motion, each speaker must send their speeches to me via PM after 48 hours. I will consolidate all the speeches into one post and post it here. The motion will be released along with the first round of speeches. All speeches will be open to criticism. 72 hours after the first set of speeches are released, teams must send me another round of speeches. This will then be released along with a poll open to the public to decide the winner.

  • Let the public decide the winner? Sounds ridiculous!
    - Yes, but for now it is what it is. When things start going maybe I will be able to find 3 judges to determine the winner.




General Rules

- Speeches should be no longer than 1000 words long.
- No ad hominem.





what i have so far
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
September 03 2012 08:22 GMT
#45
On September 03 2012 17:19 Azera wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +


TL Debates


  • How is this different from just having random discussion?
    - It doesn't differ from random discussion that much, but you will be able to easily find high quality arguments from the "official speakers", so you can easily filter through the bad posts to find the good ones.

  • How will this work?
    - 2 Teams, 4 people per team. Teams will work together via PMs. People can register by sending me a PM asking to be either the Proposition or Opposition. Only when you are officially registered will I send you a PM of the motion.

  • What you just said sounds messy!
    - Teams will not post their speeches on the thread itself. After I have given the teams the motion, each speaker must send their speeches to me via PM after 48 hours. I will consolidate all the speeches into one post and post it here. The motion will be released along with the first round of speeches. All speeches will be open to criticism. 72 hours after the first set of speeches are released, teams must send me another round of speeches. This will then be released along with a poll open to the public to decide the winner.

  • Let the public decide the winner? Sounds ridiculous!
    - Yes, but for now it is what it is. When things start going maybe I will be able to find 3 judges to determine the winner.




General Rules

- Speeches should be no longer than 1000 words long.
- No ad hominem.





what i have so far

How many speeches per round, and when you say that the motion will be released in the first round, does that mean the topic is unknown to the thread previous?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 08:24 GMT
#46
Yes. New motions are unknown until the first round of speeches are released.
4 speeches per team, 8 speeches in all. 8 speeches make a set. Only 2 sets of speeches until debate is concluded.
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
September 03 2012 08:28 GMT
#47
On September 03 2012 17:24 Azera wrote:
Yes. New motions are unknown until the first round of speeches are released.
4 speeches per team, 8 speeches in all. 8 speeches make a set. Only 2 sets of speeches until debate is concluded.

I feel like there may be too great a possibility of redundancy with so little back and forth amongst 8 speeches, maybe more splitting so we get at least some clash? And to emphasize the nature of a "rebuttal" it might make sense to reduce the second round in size and require each team to choose its two best "speakers". Just my two cents
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 08:32 GMT
#48
On September 03 2012 17:28 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 17:24 Azera wrote:
Yes. New motions are unknown until the first round of speeches are released.
4 speeches per team, 8 speeches in all. 8 speeches make a set. Only 2 sets of speeches until debate is concluded.

I feel like there may be too great a possibility of redundancy with so little back and forth amongst 8 speeches, maybe more splitting so we get at least some clash? And to emphasize the nature of a "rebuttal" it might make sense to reduce the second round in size and require each team to choose its two best "speakers". Just my two cents


Sounds like a great idea!

It's kinda hard to get the "clash" into this, I'll mull over it.
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
September 03 2012 13:04 GMT
#49
This story is quite perfect romance.
So envious!
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
September 03 2012 13:08 GMT
#50
cute story
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10155 Posts
September 03 2012 14:39 GMT
#51
On September 03 2012 11:45 TehTemplar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 11:41 Aerisky wrote:
Oh I see. Your poor parents.

Yeah your guys' lives are way more interesting than mine. Maybe one day something crazy will happen to me that's worth sharing.

Don't worry, your life is more interesting than mine :D

you worked with the legendary FlaShFTW on ur sc2 maps. the interesting part of your day was when you heard him say "SHITTY THIRDS!"
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
BrTarolg
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom3574 Posts
September 03 2012 15:08 GMT
#52
Once in a while, perhaps only a few times a year

Someone is born, someone special. One of the unlikely few to become e-famous on TL for something other than starcraft. These brave souls are armed with qualities that us mere mortals only dream of.
Qualities such as socialising, being cool and an interesting person, or being able to post 300 times a week

That person lies right in front of us right now.

Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 03 2012 23:38 GMT
#53
On September 04 2012 00:08 BrTarolg wrote:
Once in a while, perhaps only a few times a year

Someone is born, someone special. One of the unlikely few to become e-famous on TL for something other than starcraft. These brave souls are armed with qualities that us mere mortals only dream of.
Qualities such as socialising, being cool and an interesting person, or being able to post 300 times a week

That person lies right in front of us right now.



He still hasnt passed the test of time though.
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 03 2012 23:39 GMT
#54
On September 04 2012 08:38 Azera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 00:08 BrTarolg wrote:
Once in a while, perhaps only a few times a year

Someone is born, someone special. One of the unlikely few to become e-famous on TL for something other than starcraft. These brave souls are armed with qualities that us mere mortals only dream of.
Qualities such as socialising, being cool and an interesting person, or being able to post 300 times a week

That person lies right in front of us right now.



He still hasnt passed the test of time though.

Who has?
Что?
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 04 2012 01:01 GMT
#55
On September 04 2012 08:39 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 08:38 Azera wrote:
On September 04 2012 00:08 BrTarolg wrote:
Once in a while, perhaps only a few times a year

Someone is born, someone special. One of the unlikely few to become e-famous on TL for something other than starcraft. These brave souls are armed with qualities that us mere mortals only dream of.
Qualities such as socialising, being cool and an interesting person, or being able to post 300 times a week

That person lies right in front of us right now.



He still hasnt passed the test of time though.

Who has?


Torte and Probe1
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 04 2012 01:04 GMT
#56
Even I ran out of steam for my daily blogs after a month or so.
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
September 04 2012 01:22 GMT
#57
On September 04 2012 00:08 BrTarolg wrote:
Once in a while, perhaps only a few times a year

Someone is born, someone special. One of the unlikely few to become e-famous on TL for something other than starcraft. These brave souls are armed with qualities that us mere mortals only dream of.
Qualities such as socialising, being cool and an interesting person, or being able to post 300 times a week

That person lies right in front of us right now.


600 last week. I even PMed him about it, but he ignored me. I felt slighted.

To: Shady Sands [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: o___O
Date: 8/29/12 11:56

Show nested quote +
Average Posts Per Day 17.18
Average Posts Per Week 120.26
Posts made in the last week 608

Holy fuck.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 04 2012 01:25 GMT
#58
On September 04 2012 10:22 babylon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 00:08 BrTarolg wrote:
Once in a while, perhaps only a few times a year

Someone is born, someone special. One of the unlikely few to become e-famous on TL for something other than starcraft. These brave souls are armed with qualities that us mere mortals only dream of.
Qualities such as socialising, being cool and an interesting person, or being able to post 300 times a week

That person lies right in front of us right now.


600 last week. I even PMed him about it, but he ignored me. I felt slighted.

Show nested quote +
To: Shady Sands [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: o___O
Date: 8/29/12 11:56

Average Posts Per Day 17.18
Average Posts Per Week 120.26
Posts made in the last week 608

Holy fuck.

Sorry man didn't mean to ignore ya... couldn't think of a reply and got too busy to check the PM queue again
Что?
fire_brand
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada1123 Posts
September 04 2012 03:27 GMT
#59
That hussy.

It must have felt awesome to pay. Nice read, thanks.
Random player, pixel enthusiast, crappy illustrator, offlane/support
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
September 04 2012 05:34 GMT
#60
DEBATE THREAD IS OPEN!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365942
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 04 2012 05:42 GMT
#61
On September 04 2012 14:34 Azera wrote:
DEBATE THREAD IS OPEN!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365942


Yay. =)
Что?
BrTarolg
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom3574 Posts
September 04 2012 12:22 GMT
#62
On September 04 2012 08:38 Azera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 00:08 BrTarolg wrote:
Once in a while, perhaps only a few times a year

Someone is born, someone special. One of the unlikely few to become e-famous on TL for something other than starcraft. These brave souls are armed with qualities that us mere mortals only dream of.
Qualities such as socialising, being cool and an interesting person, or being able to post 300 times a week

That person lies right in front of us right now.



He still hasnt passed the test of time though.


At this rate it will only take 6 months for him to beat konadora, now that's scary

Dude who are you, are you really an italian mafioso?
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
September 04 2012 13:38 GMT
#63
Fun story
Moderator
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
September 04 2012 14:26 GMT
#64
Why didn't you confront her? I'm not talking about when you saw her again with another guy, but when she started giving you the cold shoulder. I realise at that age, it's easier to just let it go then make a big deal out of it, but weren't you even a little curious as to why she just froze you out? If I were in your shoes, I think my pride and curiosity would've demanded some sort of an answer.

In any case, I hope you didn't have much trouble moving on. First loves rarely work out, and at least it wasn't an unrequited love. You're just getting started, so chin up mate!
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
September 06 2012 07:56 GMT
#65
On September 04 2012 23:26 Telcontar wrote:
Why didn't you confront her? I'm not talking about when you saw her again with another guy, but when she started giving you the cold shoulder. I realise at that age, it's easier to just let it go then make a big deal out of it, but weren't you even a little curious as to why she just froze you out? If I were in your shoes, I think my pride and curiosity would've demanded some sort of an answer.

In any case, I hope you didn't have much trouble moving on. First loves rarely work out, and at least it wasn't an unrequited love. You're just getting started, so chin up mate!


The funny thing, it was because I was trying hard to get caught up on the PSATs/I found out about The Atlantic at the time. I got more interested in trying to get a 240 on tests and reading about the state of America than repeatedly calling her and getting hung up on, lol.

I actually got into a fairly "vengeful" funk for a little while. I just hunkered down and hit the books. By the time I snapped out of it, I'd already met my second girlfriend, and I wasn't thinking about her any longer.

=) Thanks for the kind words bud, it's actually been nine years since I dated her.

I've found out that getting laid is pretty easy if I just act like a cad and dangle a girl by her insecurities, but actually caring about her and getting her to care about me is hard. Harder than anything else I've done before.
Что?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
September 09 2012 03:18 GMT
#66
Really interesting story, thanks for sharing. Doubt anything as interesting will happen to me though lol ><
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
12:30
King of the Hill Weekly #220
CranKy Ducklings181
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 503
Hui .324
mouzHeroMarine 100
ProTech26
trigger 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 53931
Horang2 3774
Flash 2713
ggaemo 2571
Bisu 2450
Jaedong 1512
Hyun 1109
Barracks 896
EffOrt 888
Mini 667
[ Show more ]
Larva 435
Soulkey 398
actioN 306
Snow 239
Last 235
ZerO 208
Killer 148
Zeus 135
Rush 104
ToSsGirL 97
Leta 94
JYJ87
sorry 62
Sharp 60
Movie 53
sSak 42
yabsab 33
sas.Sziky 32
Shine 25
Shinee 24
Sacsri 24
[sc1f]eonzerg 23
zelot 21
Noble 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Terrorterran 7
Hm[arnc] 6
IntoTheRainbow 6
Stormgate
RushiSC29
Dota 2
Gorgc6530
qojqva2959
Dendi593
420jenkins280
XcaliburYe235
Counter-Strike
markeloff89
kRYSTAL_37
Other Games
singsing2621
B2W.Neo1210
hiko958
Fuzer 355
DeMusliM335
Happy284
ToD149
QueenE49
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 79
• davetesta40
• tFFMrPink 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV312
League of Legends
• Nemesis3101
• Jankos1180
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2h 9m
The PondCast
20h 9m
Online Event
1d 2h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs TBD
Online Event
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs TBD
OSC
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
Yuqilin POB S2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.