• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:15
CEST 17:15
KST 00:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview8TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection5Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June2Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? What kind of tool would you be interested in? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) WardiTV Mondays Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June FlaSh's ASL S21 Finals Review BW animated web series: seeking contributors FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event
Tourneys
[BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4867 users

Dunning–Kruger at Work?

Blogs > Reithan
Post a Reply
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-21 02:57:06
August 21 2012 02:27 GMT
#1
I've been working on up-keeping my knowledge of the meta and trying to figure out what happened to SC2 when I took a 2 week break when a thought hit me:

I've been platinum for a long time now. 5 seasons to be exact. Maybe the way I'm going about trying to improve isn't working? (You think?)

So, I thought - why? Maybe the problem is, the thought process I usually have is, "I'm almost to Diamond, I just need to ____ and I'll make it this season." Fill in the blank with 'learn the meta', 'inject better', 'perfect this build', 'work on my micro', 'mass game to improve my knowledge'...anything.

The problem is, I think my premise may be flawed. Maybe I'm NOT almost Diamond. Maybe it's not just 1-2 fiddly little improvements that I need to make that are holding me back. Maybe I need to fundamentally improve my game?

So, now I'm trying to figure out the best way to figure out the best way to improve my game (recursive sentence is go!).

Dunning-Kruger Effect

*
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
Bombadil819
Profile Joined November 2011
United States45 Posts
August 21 2012 02:50 GMT
#2
Seems plausible. Bronzie since season 1.
Doomblaze
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1292 Posts
August 21 2012 04:17 GMT
#3
i mean as a plat player, you need to fundamentally improve your game. Im low/mid masters and I know i need fundamentally improve my game, since I can improve in every aspect of the game. What i do to improve is mass games, see what im having trouble with, then open up 2-3 streams and watch pros for a while to figure out what they do. If my build isnt working at all, I learn a new one, or I learn a good way to counter a certain strat
In Mushi we trust
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-21 06:19:44
August 21 2012 06:08 GMT
#4
I think the best way to try and improve one's game is not to think "Okay, if I make these two improvements, I'll hit Diamond." Fuck Diamond. You want to hit Masters. What are the 2-3 largest improvements on your game you need to make to hit Masters? This is effective for several reasons:

1) People underestimate the work involved to achieve the next rank. This is partly due to the Dunning-Kruger effect, and partly due to the planning fallacy. People think they're closer than they are and that it'll be faster than it will be. If you consistently put in the effort to reach what you think is Diamond level, you will fall short. Aim higher and you might get there.

2) Masters is more effective as a goal for overall improving your game. What's going to improve your game more?

A) "Okay, I want to hit Masters. Wow, my macro is NOWHERE NEAR Masters level. I have to work on that! I have to hit 70 supply by 8 minutes in ZvP EVERY SINGLE GAME." (That my opponent FFE's in)

B) "Okay, I want to hit Diamond. If I make several small improvements, that should be enough."

You are not aiming to inch into Diamond. You are aiming to improve your game as much as possible. Diamond league will arise as a consequence. If all you care about is hitting Diamond league, if that's what you really want, start all-ining. You'll get there way faster.

It's common sense. To reach Diamond, you need X improvement. The best way to improve your skill by X is to take on the activities that will improve your skill most effectively. But to do that, you need to look at the bigger picture. You're trying to do the bare minimum to hit the next rank. I'll tell you what the bare minimum to hit Diamond is. Start cheesing. But you don't really want that, do you? You want to improve as much as possible, and Diamond league is a reflection of that improvement, a symbol of how far you've come.

So forget Diamond. What parts of your play need the most improvement if you're intending to become a Masters player?
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
August 21 2012 07:11 GMT
#5
It wasn't so much that I was looking to hit Diamond and stop, I was initially just trying to break my main goal (Masters) into smaller goals.

Such as:

1) Hit top 8 Plat
2) Hit Diamond
3) Hit top 50 Diamond
etc

But I need to reassess this. I think, like you've suggested, performance-related goals would be better. My main perofrmance issues is supply-blocking and getting thrown off by odd builds and early aggression. I can actually hit the same timings as Stephano with the 11-minute max build if I don't get messed with...but that's worthless. I can't play in a vacuum. I need to create some resilience in my play.

Also, HORRIBLE multitasking and lackluster micro.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-21 08:05:44
August 21 2012 08:04 GMT
#6
On August 21 2012 11:27 Reithan wrote:
I've been working on up-keeping my knowledge of the meta and trying to figure out what happened to SC2 when I took a 2 week break when a thought hit me:

I've been platinum for a long time now. 5 seasons to be exact. Maybe the way I'm going about trying to improve isn't working? (You think?)

So, I thought - why? Maybe the problem is, the thought process I usually have is, "I'm almost to Diamond, I just need to ____ and I'll make it this season." Fill in the blank with 'learn the meta', 'inject better', 'perfect this build', 'work on my micro', 'mass game to improve my knowledge'...anything.

The problem is, I think my premise may be flawed. Maybe I'm NOT almost Diamond. Maybe it's not just 1-2 fiddly little improvements that I need to make that are holding me back. Maybe I need to fundamentally improve my game?

So, now I'm trying to figure out the best way to figure out the best way to improve my game (recursive sentence is go!).

Dunning-Kruger Effect


If you injected better and perfected a build, you would be master. Do that.

EDIT: Actually, add me. Kaiser.581. We'll do a short sweat session and I'll tell you exactly what you have to do.
3 Hatch Before Cool
UltimateHurl
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland591 Posts
August 21 2012 08:21 GMT
#7
While this "I'll be at Diamond if I just get better at X" can sometimes be mentality can sometimes be right the most common advice I see is just play more. There are people who boast about just using mass blink stalker builds or 4-gating all the way to diamond, with the only improvement is a general 'I'll not make that mistake next time".
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
August 23 2012 01:29 GMT
#8
On August 21 2012 17:04 -Kaiser- wrote:EDIT: Actually, add me. Kaiser.581. We'll do a short sweat session and I'll tell you exactly what you have to do.

Done and done. Now just to catch you online...I'm PST - you?
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#90
WardiTV1506
IntoTheiNu 1486
Rex168
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 168
elazer 88
trigger 37
RushiSC 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 2280
Jaedong 1719
Horang2 864
EffOrt 844
actioN 561
ggaemo 445
Light 361
Rush 347
Snow 343
firebathero 318
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 263
Hm[arnc] 90
Free 80
Sea.KH 74
Pusan 65
sorry 63
Backho 44
scan(afreeca) 32
910 26
JYJ 26
GoRush 19
Terrorterran 19
zelot 18
Shine 14
Bale 12
Movie 10
SilentControl 8
Dota 2
qojqva2991
Dendi684
Fuzer 148
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
fl0m7619
zeus390
kRYSTAL_30
Other Games
tarik_tv11156
gofns10114
B2W.Neo1220
Lowko901
hiko593
crisheroes272
Hui .117
ArmadaUGS83
Mew2King52
SHIN 30
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick609
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3435
• TFBlade1035
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
45m
Replay Cast
8h 45m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 45m
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 19h
Maestros of the Game
1d 23h
Classic vs Lambo
Clem vs Maru
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Serral vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 22
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.