• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:47
CET 13:47
KST 21:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)9Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Mechabellum Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3169 users

Dunning–Kruger at Work?

Blogs > Reithan
Post a Reply
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-21 02:57:06
August 21 2012 02:27 GMT
#1
I've been working on up-keeping my knowledge of the meta and trying to figure out what happened to SC2 when I took a 2 week break when a thought hit me:

I've been platinum for a long time now. 5 seasons to be exact. Maybe the way I'm going about trying to improve isn't working? (You think?)

So, I thought - why? Maybe the problem is, the thought process I usually have is, "I'm almost to Diamond, I just need to ____ and I'll make it this season." Fill in the blank with 'learn the meta', 'inject better', 'perfect this build', 'work on my micro', 'mass game to improve my knowledge'...anything.

The problem is, I think my premise may be flawed. Maybe I'm NOT almost Diamond. Maybe it's not just 1-2 fiddly little improvements that I need to make that are holding me back. Maybe I need to fundamentally improve my game?

So, now I'm trying to figure out the best way to figure out the best way to improve my game (recursive sentence is go!).

Dunning-Kruger Effect

*
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
Bombadil819
Profile Joined November 2011
United States45 Posts
August 21 2012 02:50 GMT
#2
Seems plausible. Bronzie since season 1.
Doomblaze
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1292 Posts
August 21 2012 04:17 GMT
#3
i mean as a plat player, you need to fundamentally improve your game. Im low/mid masters and I know i need fundamentally improve my game, since I can improve in every aspect of the game. What i do to improve is mass games, see what im having trouble with, then open up 2-3 streams and watch pros for a while to figure out what they do. If my build isnt working at all, I learn a new one, or I learn a good way to counter a certain strat
In Mushi we trust
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-21 06:19:44
August 21 2012 06:08 GMT
#4
I think the best way to try and improve one's game is not to think "Okay, if I make these two improvements, I'll hit Diamond." Fuck Diamond. You want to hit Masters. What are the 2-3 largest improvements on your game you need to make to hit Masters? This is effective for several reasons:

1) People underestimate the work involved to achieve the next rank. This is partly due to the Dunning-Kruger effect, and partly due to the planning fallacy. People think they're closer than they are and that it'll be faster than it will be. If you consistently put in the effort to reach what you think is Diamond level, you will fall short. Aim higher and you might get there.

2) Masters is more effective as a goal for overall improving your game. What's going to improve your game more?

A) "Okay, I want to hit Masters. Wow, my macro is NOWHERE NEAR Masters level. I have to work on that! I have to hit 70 supply by 8 minutes in ZvP EVERY SINGLE GAME." (That my opponent FFE's in)

B) "Okay, I want to hit Diamond. If I make several small improvements, that should be enough."

You are not aiming to inch into Diamond. You are aiming to improve your game as much as possible. Diamond league will arise as a consequence. If all you care about is hitting Diamond league, if that's what you really want, start all-ining. You'll get there way faster.

It's common sense. To reach Diamond, you need X improvement. The best way to improve your skill by X is to take on the activities that will improve your skill most effectively. But to do that, you need to look at the bigger picture. You're trying to do the bare minimum to hit the next rank. I'll tell you what the bare minimum to hit Diamond is. Start cheesing. But you don't really want that, do you? You want to improve as much as possible, and Diamond league is a reflection of that improvement, a symbol of how far you've come.

So forget Diamond. What parts of your play need the most improvement if you're intending to become a Masters player?
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
August 21 2012 07:11 GMT
#5
It wasn't so much that I was looking to hit Diamond and stop, I was initially just trying to break my main goal (Masters) into smaller goals.

Such as:

1) Hit top 8 Plat
2) Hit Diamond
3) Hit top 50 Diamond
etc

But I need to reassess this. I think, like you've suggested, performance-related goals would be better. My main perofrmance issues is supply-blocking and getting thrown off by odd builds and early aggression. I can actually hit the same timings as Stephano with the 11-minute max build if I don't get messed with...but that's worthless. I can't play in a vacuum. I need to create some resilience in my play.

Also, HORRIBLE multitasking and lackluster micro.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-21 08:05:44
August 21 2012 08:04 GMT
#6
On August 21 2012 11:27 Reithan wrote:
I've been working on up-keeping my knowledge of the meta and trying to figure out what happened to SC2 when I took a 2 week break when a thought hit me:

I've been platinum for a long time now. 5 seasons to be exact. Maybe the way I'm going about trying to improve isn't working? (You think?)

So, I thought - why? Maybe the problem is, the thought process I usually have is, "I'm almost to Diamond, I just need to ____ and I'll make it this season." Fill in the blank with 'learn the meta', 'inject better', 'perfect this build', 'work on my micro', 'mass game to improve my knowledge'...anything.

The problem is, I think my premise may be flawed. Maybe I'm NOT almost Diamond. Maybe it's not just 1-2 fiddly little improvements that I need to make that are holding me back. Maybe I need to fundamentally improve my game?

So, now I'm trying to figure out the best way to figure out the best way to improve my game (recursive sentence is go!).

Dunning-Kruger Effect


If you injected better and perfected a build, you would be master. Do that.

EDIT: Actually, add me. Kaiser.581. We'll do a short sweat session and I'll tell you exactly what you have to do.
3 Hatch Before Cool
UltimateHurl
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland591 Posts
August 21 2012 08:21 GMT
#7
While this "I'll be at Diamond if I just get better at X" can sometimes be mentality can sometimes be right the most common advice I see is just play more. There are people who boast about just using mass blink stalker builds or 4-gating all the way to diamond, with the only improvement is a general 'I'll not make that mistake next time".
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
August 23 2012 01:29 GMT
#8
On August 21 2012 17:04 -Kaiser- wrote:EDIT: Actually, add me. Kaiser.581. We'll do a short sweat session and I'll tell you exactly what you have to do.

Done and done. Now just to catch you online...I'm PST - you?
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RongYI Cup
11:00
Qualifier 1
WardiTV916
Rex129
TKL 128
3DClanTV 88
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 129
TKL 128
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 51266
Horang2 3097
Shuttle 1805
Stork 666
Mini 587
Zeus 474
Larva 429
Hyuk 396
EffOrt 393
Rush 348
[ Show more ]
Light 292
ZerO 290
firebathero 275
BeSt 275
ggaemo 252
Last 243
Soma 240
Leta 157
hero 138
Hyun 103
Pusan 100
Sharp 100
Barracks 98
Mind 55
Killer 53
HiyA 52
Aegong 50
Sea.KH 44
sorry 40
Free 39
ToSsGirL 35
Movie 33
Sacsri 22
Nal_rA 21
yabsab 18
Terrorterran 14
Noble 12
Bale 12
Shine 10
Icarus 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe590
Fuzer 222
ODPixel202
Counter-Strike
x6flipin595
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King96
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor229
Other Games
singsing2808
B2W.Neo1665
Sick154
ZerO(Twitch)17
Railgan2
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV44
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH236
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 45
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2157
League of Legends
• Nemesis4614
• Jankos3489
• Stunt1259
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
1h 14m
ByuN vs Percival
Percival vs Rogue
Percival vs Classic
ByuN vs Classic
ByuN vs Rogue
Classic vs Rogue
IPSL
7h 14m
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
20h 14m
Wardi Open
23h 14m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 4h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 23h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
OSC
3 days
OSC
4 days
[ Show More ]
All Star Teams
5 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
All Star Teams
6 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-10
Big Gabe Cup #3
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.