• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:47
CEST 00:47
KST 07:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double1Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon105
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest 1 Replay Pack Recent patches and the Future StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Bot on ladder [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7161 users

Dunning–Kruger at Work?

Blogs > Reithan
Post a Reply
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-21 02:57:06
August 21 2012 02:27 GMT
#1
I've been working on up-keeping my knowledge of the meta and trying to figure out what happened to SC2 when I took a 2 week break when a thought hit me:

I've been platinum for a long time now. 5 seasons to be exact. Maybe the way I'm going about trying to improve isn't working? (You think?)

So, I thought - why? Maybe the problem is, the thought process I usually have is, "I'm almost to Diamond, I just need to ____ and I'll make it this season." Fill in the blank with 'learn the meta', 'inject better', 'perfect this build', 'work on my micro', 'mass game to improve my knowledge'...anything.

The problem is, I think my premise may be flawed. Maybe I'm NOT almost Diamond. Maybe it's not just 1-2 fiddly little improvements that I need to make that are holding me back. Maybe I need to fundamentally improve my game?

So, now I'm trying to figure out the best way to figure out the best way to improve my game (recursive sentence is go!).

Dunning-Kruger Effect

*
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
Bombadil819
Profile Joined November 2011
United States45 Posts
August 21 2012 02:50 GMT
#2
Seems plausible. Bronzie since season 1.
Doomblaze
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1292 Posts
August 21 2012 04:17 GMT
#3
i mean as a plat player, you need to fundamentally improve your game. Im low/mid masters and I know i need fundamentally improve my game, since I can improve in every aspect of the game. What i do to improve is mass games, see what im having trouble with, then open up 2-3 streams and watch pros for a while to figure out what they do. If my build isnt working at all, I learn a new one, or I learn a good way to counter a certain strat
In Mushi we trust
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-21 06:19:44
August 21 2012 06:08 GMT
#4
I think the best way to try and improve one's game is not to think "Okay, if I make these two improvements, I'll hit Diamond." Fuck Diamond. You want to hit Masters. What are the 2-3 largest improvements on your game you need to make to hit Masters? This is effective for several reasons:

1) People underestimate the work involved to achieve the next rank. This is partly due to the Dunning-Kruger effect, and partly due to the planning fallacy. People think they're closer than they are and that it'll be faster than it will be. If you consistently put in the effort to reach what you think is Diamond level, you will fall short. Aim higher and you might get there.

2) Masters is more effective as a goal for overall improving your game. What's going to improve your game more?

A) "Okay, I want to hit Masters. Wow, my macro is NOWHERE NEAR Masters level. I have to work on that! I have to hit 70 supply by 8 minutes in ZvP EVERY SINGLE GAME." (That my opponent FFE's in)

B) "Okay, I want to hit Diamond. If I make several small improvements, that should be enough."

You are not aiming to inch into Diamond. You are aiming to improve your game as much as possible. Diamond league will arise as a consequence. If all you care about is hitting Diamond league, if that's what you really want, start all-ining. You'll get there way faster.

It's common sense. To reach Diamond, you need X improvement. The best way to improve your skill by X is to take on the activities that will improve your skill most effectively. But to do that, you need to look at the bigger picture. You're trying to do the bare minimum to hit the next rank. I'll tell you what the bare minimum to hit Diamond is. Start cheesing. But you don't really want that, do you? You want to improve as much as possible, and Diamond league is a reflection of that improvement, a symbol of how far you've come.

So forget Diamond. What parts of your play need the most improvement if you're intending to become a Masters player?
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
August 21 2012 07:11 GMT
#5
It wasn't so much that I was looking to hit Diamond and stop, I was initially just trying to break my main goal (Masters) into smaller goals.

Such as:

1) Hit top 8 Plat
2) Hit Diamond
3) Hit top 50 Diamond
etc

But I need to reassess this. I think, like you've suggested, performance-related goals would be better. My main perofrmance issues is supply-blocking and getting thrown off by odd builds and early aggression. I can actually hit the same timings as Stephano with the 11-minute max build if I don't get messed with...but that's worthless. I can't play in a vacuum. I need to create some resilience in my play.

Also, HORRIBLE multitasking and lackluster micro.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-21 08:05:44
August 21 2012 08:04 GMT
#6
On August 21 2012 11:27 Reithan wrote:
I've been working on up-keeping my knowledge of the meta and trying to figure out what happened to SC2 when I took a 2 week break when a thought hit me:

I've been platinum for a long time now. 5 seasons to be exact. Maybe the way I'm going about trying to improve isn't working? (You think?)

So, I thought - why? Maybe the problem is, the thought process I usually have is, "I'm almost to Diamond, I just need to ____ and I'll make it this season." Fill in the blank with 'learn the meta', 'inject better', 'perfect this build', 'work on my micro', 'mass game to improve my knowledge'...anything.

The problem is, I think my premise may be flawed. Maybe I'm NOT almost Diamond. Maybe it's not just 1-2 fiddly little improvements that I need to make that are holding me back. Maybe I need to fundamentally improve my game?

So, now I'm trying to figure out the best way to figure out the best way to improve my game (recursive sentence is go!).

Dunning-Kruger Effect


If you injected better and perfected a build, you would be master. Do that.

EDIT: Actually, add me. Kaiser.581. We'll do a short sweat session and I'll tell you exactly what you have to do.
3 Hatch Before Cool
UltimateHurl
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland591 Posts
August 21 2012 08:21 GMT
#7
While this "I'll be at Diamond if I just get better at X" can sometimes be mentality can sometimes be right the most common advice I see is just play more. There are people who boast about just using mass blink stalker builds or 4-gating all the way to diamond, with the only improvement is a general 'I'll not make that mistake next time".
Reithan
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States360 Posts
August 23 2012 01:29 GMT
#8
On August 21 2012 17:04 -Kaiser- wrote:EDIT: Actually, add me. Kaiser.581. We'll do a short sweat session and I'll tell you exactly what you have to do.

Done and done. Now just to catch you online...I'm PST - you?
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 118
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 406
White-Ra 141
910 43
NaDa 36
Dota 2
monkeys_forever264
NeuroSwarm135
Super Smash Bros
PPMD71
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby8857
Liquid`Hasu1504
Trikslyr89
Other Games
summit1g8378
Liquid`RaSZi3321
shahzam628
JimRising 315
B2W.Neo174
C9.Mang0123
ArmadaUGS91
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream334
Other Games
BasetradeTV239
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 93
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1033
Other Games
• imaqtpie1131
• Shiphtur214
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
11h 13m
Afreeca Starleague
11h 13m
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
1d 1h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 12h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Online Event
4 days
FEL
4 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.