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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people.
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Yeah I'm not sure if we can chalk this up to homophobia being the true issue. Yeah it's silly to be homophobic, but there is something a little more wrong with the guy than his fear of gays.
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On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people.
You know TL has a habit of first replies either being really stupid, or exactly what needs to be said.
This has nothing to do with homophobia
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On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people.
I tried to give this an upvote, then I realized I'm not on reddit. What has happened to me?
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On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people.
Being homophobic isn't a crime or something that is wrong, just like how being homosexual isn't a crime. It's exactly as T.O.P. said it, the problem is he killed two people. People who denounce homophobes are on the same level as them and vice versa.
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Is there some sort of article, is this new news, why is the first I'm hearing of this, I would think media would be all over this...
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On June 13 2012 15:21 EienShinwa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people. Being homophobic isn't a crime or something that is wrong, just like how being homosexual isn't a crime. It's exactly as T.O.P. said it, the problem is he killed two people. People who denounce homophobes are on the same level as them and vice versa.
It depends on what society considers reasonable. I would suggest that treating people differently based on who they are attracted to is discriminatory and reasonable to denounce. For example we denounce hate speech even though those that spout it claim they are just voicing their views. Sometimes there is a right and wrong way to approach things.
Also wrong =/= illegal or visa versa
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On June 13 2012 15:34 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 15:21 EienShinwa wrote:On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people. Being homophobic isn't a crime or something that is wrong, just like how being homosexual isn't a crime. It's exactly as T.O.P. said it, the problem is he killed two people. People who denounce homophobes are on the same level as them and vice versa. It depends on what society considers reasonable. I would suggest that treating people differently based on who they are attracted to is discriminatory and reasonable to denounce. For example we denounce hate speech even though those that spout it claim they are just voicing their views. Sometimes there is a right and wrong way to approach things. Also wrong =/= illegal or visa versa
So if i'm a Laker's fan it's not okay to discriminate you or denounce you if you're a Celtics fan? I feel like humans are just overly sensitive when it comes to "controversial" topic. It's unfair how I can freely say I hate the Celtics but can't freely say I hate gays because it's not politically acceptable.
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On June 13 2012 15:58 AngryFarmer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 15:34 Probulous wrote:On June 13 2012 15:21 EienShinwa wrote:On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people. Being homophobic isn't a crime or something that is wrong, just like how being homosexual isn't a crime. It's exactly as T.O.P. said it, the problem is he killed two people. People who denounce homophobes are on the same level as them and vice versa. It depends on what society considers reasonable. I would suggest that treating people differently based on who they are attracted to is discriminatory and reasonable to denounce. For example we denounce hate speech even though those that spout it claim they are just voicing their views. Sometimes there is a right and wrong way to approach things. Also wrong =/= illegal or visa versa So if i'm a Laker's fan it's not okay to discriminate you or denounce you if you're a Celtics fan? I feel like humans are just overly sensitive when it comes to "controversial" topic. It's unfair how I can freely say I hate the Celtics but can't freely say I hate gays because it's not politically acceptable.
Exactly my point. We are in this era where liberalism is taking over the world by a storm, and it's really not as black and white as you think. It's wrong for a person to kill homosexuals because they are homophobes, just as it is wrong for a person to kill homophobe because they are homosexuals. Treating people differently based on who they are happens all the fucking time, from things like physical appearance, race, personality, gender, etc. This is no different.
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On June 13 2012 15:58 AngryFarmer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 15:34 Probulous wrote:On June 13 2012 15:21 EienShinwa wrote:On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people. Being homophobic isn't a crime or something that is wrong, just like how being homosexual isn't a crime. It's exactly as T.O.P. said it, the problem is he killed two people. People who denounce homophobes are on the same level as them and vice versa. It depends on what society considers reasonable. I would suggest that treating people differently based on who they are attracted to is discriminatory and reasonable to denounce. For example we denounce hate speech even though those that spout it claim they are just voicing their views. Sometimes there is a right and wrong way to approach things. Also wrong =/= illegal or visa versa So if i'm a Laker's fan it's not okay to discriminate you or denounce you if you're a Celtics fan? I feel like humans are just overly sensitive when it comes to "controversial" topic. It's unfair how I can freely say I hate the Celtics but can't freely say I hate gays because it's not politically acceptable.
Your choice of basketball team is not the same as someone's sexuality.
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If homophobia didn't exist he would have killed the boy because he thought he was possessed by demons. Homophobia didn't "lead" to anything, craziness did.
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On June 13 2012 16:07 EienShinwa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 15:58 AngryFarmer wrote:On June 13 2012 15:34 Probulous wrote:On June 13 2012 15:21 EienShinwa wrote:On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people. Being homophobic isn't a crime or something that is wrong, just like how being homosexual isn't a crime. It's exactly as T.O.P. said it, the problem is he killed two people. People who denounce homophobes are on the same level as them and vice versa. It depends on what society considers reasonable. I would suggest that treating people differently based on who they are attracted to is discriminatory and reasonable to denounce. For example we denounce hate speech even though those that spout it claim they are just voicing their views. Sometimes there is a right and wrong way to approach things. Also wrong =/= illegal or visa versa So if i'm a Laker's fan it's not okay to discriminate you or denounce you if you're a Celtics fan? I feel like humans are just overly sensitive when it comes to "controversial" topic. It's unfair how I can freely say I hate the Celtics but can't freely say I hate gays because it's not politically acceptable. Exactly my point. We are in this era where liberalism is taking over the world by a storm, and it's really not as black and white as you think. It's wrong for a person to kill homosexuals because they are homophobes, just as it is wrong for a person to kill homophobe because they are homosexuals. Treating people differently based on who they are happens all the fucking time, from things like physical appearance, race, personality, gender, etc. This is no different.
I repeat illegal =/= wrong or visa versa.
I disagree that in a modern society we should accept people being treated based on their gender, race or sexual preference. These things are predominantly biologically driven and so the individual has limited choice in changing them. Just because people treat them differently doesn't mean we should be indifferent about it.
Since when has apathy become the new black?
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Well shit. I'm pretty sure you can't even tell a person's sexuality for sure when they're four.
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What the fuck this happened in Durham? Shit that's close. Used to live there too.
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On June 13 2012 15:58 AngryFarmer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 15:34 Probulous wrote:On June 13 2012 15:21 EienShinwa wrote:On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people. Being homophobic isn't a crime or something that is wrong, just like how being homosexual isn't a crime. It's exactly as T.O.P. said it, the problem is he killed two people. People who denounce homophobes are on the same level as them and vice versa. It depends on what society considers reasonable. I would suggest that treating people differently based on who they are attracted to is discriminatory and reasonable to denounce. For example we denounce hate speech even though those that spout it claim they are just voicing their views. Sometimes there is a right and wrong way to approach things. Also wrong =/= illegal or visa versa So if i'm a Laker's fan it's not okay to discriminate you or denounce you if you're a Celtics fan? I feel like humans are just overly sensitive when it comes to "controversial" topic. It's unfair how I can freely say I hate the Celtics but can't freely say I hate gays because it's not politically acceptable.
It's unfair how I can freely say I hate Celtics fans but can't freely say I hate black people because it's not politically acceptable. Damn being politically acceptable is unreasonable.
-_-...
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Yea, I'm gonna call bullshit on some of these analogies people in here are throwing around. Homophobia and NBA teams? Come on now.
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On June 13 2012 16:48 TOloseGT wrote:
Yea, I'm gonna call bullshit on some of these analogies people in here are throwing around. Homophobia and NBA teams? Come on now.
You're probably just ignorant to the fact that sports team affiliation is biologically predetermed. 
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On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
Crazy people kill people.
Well said. Couldn't agree more.
It looks like an attempt to get an insanity plea to me.
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This guy sounds like he is insane to be honest and he just wanted an excuse to kill someone.
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On June 13 2012 17:04 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 16:48 TOloseGT wrote:
Yea, I'm gonna call bullshit on some of these analogies people in here are throwing around. Homophobia and NBA teams? Come on now. You're probably just ignorant to the fact that sports team affiliation is biologically predetermed.
Crap, you're right. I just found out about the Yankees and Red Sox.
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On June 13 2012 16:48 TOloseGT wrote:
Yea, I'm gonna call bullshit on some of these analogies people in here are throwing around. Homophobia and NBA teams? Come on now.
Homophobia is an averse opinion towards homosexuals. How is it different from your NBA team preferences?
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On June 13 2012 18:03 AngryFarmer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 16:48 TOloseGT wrote:
Yea, I'm gonna call bullshit on some of these analogies people in here are throwing around. Homophobia and NBA teams? Come on now. Homophobia is an averse opinion towards homosexuals. How is it different from your NBA team preferences?
How is it the same? In any way other than Homosexual and "Celtic Fan" both being nouns?
You've got to be trolling me...
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If you don't like homosexuals, black people or whoever, whatever the hell you want it's completely fine no one can and no one should forbid you that.
If you run around the streets claiming they should be killed, smacked or if you insult them for no reason besides their race/sexuality etc. pp. it's not fine. Shit isn't rocket science. =/
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On June 13 2012 18:36 r.Evo wrote:
If you don't like homosexuals, black people or whoever, whatever the hell you want it's completely fine no one can and no one should forbid you that.
If you run around the streets claiming they should be killed, smacked or if you insult them for no reason besides their race/sexuality etc. pp. it's not fine. Shit isn't rocket science. =/
my thoughts exactly.
essentially, this is just fucking disgusting.
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If you hate someone, in the true meaning of the word, because of a sports team then you have your own issues. If you can't see why something being biologically predetermined is different to a freely made choice your issue probably stems from having an IQ of 80.
As others have said your mind is your own, it's actions based on prejudice which is so obviously objectionable.
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On June 13 2012 16:07 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 15:58 AngryFarmer wrote:On June 13 2012 15:34 Probulous wrote:On June 13 2012 15:21 EienShinwa wrote:On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people. Being homophobic isn't a crime or something that is wrong, just like how being homosexual isn't a crime. It's exactly as T.O.P. said it, the problem is he killed two people. People who denounce homophobes are on the same level as them and vice versa. It depends on what society considers reasonable. I would suggest that treating people differently based on who they are attracted to is discriminatory and reasonable to denounce. For example we denounce hate speech even though those that spout it claim they are just voicing their views. Sometimes there is a right and wrong way to approach things. Also wrong =/= illegal or visa versa So if i'm a Laker's fan it's not okay to discriminate you or denounce you if you're a Celtics fan? I feel like humans are just overly sensitive when it comes to "controversial" topic. It's unfair how I can freely say I hate the Celtics but can't freely say I hate gays because it's not politically acceptable. Your choice of basketball team is not the same as someone's sexuality.
Love it when people use horrible false analogies to argue =/
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On June 13 2012 15:21 EienShinwa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people. Being homophobic isn't a crime or something that is wrong, just like how being homosexual isn't a crime. It's exactly as T.O.P. said it, the problem is he killed two people. People who denounce homophobes are on the same level as them and vice versa.
This is something really dumb to be tolerant about. If homophobia really was the motivation (I don't know why anyone would think a baby was gay, but whatever) then it's not wrong to call it a contributing factor in the crime. Just like it's not wrong to call racism a contributing factor in many crimes committed by the KKK. Homophobia and racism both have lead to the deaths of many. What you are trying to argue is that these people would have found reasons to kill anyway, but I don't think that's necessarily true. Ya, not all racist or homophobic people are going to go to such lengths as murder and sacrifice their well being in society, but crimes have motivations and to just say murders murder because they're crazy murders is pretty useless and backwards. Criminal theory is a lot more complicated than just 'some people are bad/crazy' these days.
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The article and topic title are really misleading...
It's not homophobia that led to the killing, it's crazyness combined with stupidity. If it wasn't homophobia, he probably would have killed them once they voted for democrats/republics or something similar. Yeah, in this case homophobia was the trigger but if that didn't happen, something else would have triggered the same action later.
It's sad that such mentally unstable people are often only recognized as such after someone dies/gets hurt.
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On June 13 2012 19:09 Nallen wrote:
If you hate someone, in the true meaning of the word, because of a sports team then you have your own issues.
There are hundreds of thousands of people with those issues then. Also there is no "true meaning of word" when it comes to hate - it comes in different shades and intensities.
I personally hate people of certain political affiliations, as well as people who do certain things as a profession (in what I believe is the true meaning of the word, as in I wish they did not exist in my environment, or anywhere really). Though I suppose the difference in this case is that while these groups of people do affect me negatively, whereas homosexuals don't really affect anyone negatively.
Either way, it's fine to come to terms to what you actually dislike and the intensity by which you dislike said groups/ideas. Just don't cross the line of actively trying to deny them rights or cause them harm.
On topic, I agree that homophobia isn't really what pushed this guy to do this.
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You know, while this guy probaly would use any excuse to commit like a crazy lunatic, it does not take away that the homophobia is one of the reasons he may have had. Homophobia is not right. They are people, they have a different preference but that's their business. As long as they do not bother you with it, there's nothing to worry about.
My impression is that outside my own country, gay people are still referred to as despicable, disgusting people that are so wrong in their mind that it's incomprehensible for 90% of the world. Perhaps the number is a bit exaggerated, but the point still remains. Myself I am a neutral person in this. I have met people who are gay and who are the most awesome people to hang out with ever. In Holland we're extremely open to them because they are people. As long as they don't force us to follow their mindset, there's no single problem at all. Respect and tolerance... something the world is losing rapidly.
People say that homophobia isn't the reason to this act, but it does have influence on this lunatic's thought process. We should stop disregarding that, and start working on the acceptance of gay people. You don't have to like them or hang out with them. All you should do is accept that people are different and as long as they leave you alone then there's nothing to it.
Edit: Spelling
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On June 13 2012 20:38 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 15:21 EienShinwa wrote:On June 13 2012 14:34 T.O.P. wrote:
The problem is not that he is homophobic, the problem is that he killed 2 people. Crazy people kill people. Being homophobic isn't a crime or something that is wrong, just like how being homosexual isn't a crime. It's exactly as T.O.P. said it, the problem is he killed two people. People who denounce homophobes are on the same level as them and vice versa. This is something really dumb to be tolerant about. If homophobia really was the motivation (I don't know why anyone would think a baby was gay, but whatever) then it's not wrong to call it a contributing factor in the crime. Just like it's not wrong to call racism a contributing factor in many crimes committed by the KKK. Homophobia and racism both have lead to the deaths of many. What you are trying to argue is that these people would have found reasons to kill anyway, but I don't think that's necessarily true. Ya, not all racist or homophobic people are going to go to such lengths as murder and sacrifice their well being in society, but crimes have motivations and to just say murders murder because they're crazy murders is pretty useless and backwards. Criminal theory is a lot more complicated than just 'some people are bad/crazy' these days.
I don't understand your logic. Correlation does not imply causation. Just hating homosexuals is not enough intrinsic motivation unless they are mentally unstable. There are plenty of people who feel uncomfortable around homosexuals that don't go around killing them because they have a different sexual preference. This is because they are sane and know that killing someone based on their preferences is wrong, in addition to being illegal. I agree, criminal theory is more complicated than you think, because closing a case by saying "Well, that guy killed the child because he hated homosexuals." is a pretty useless and backwards way of thinking.
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EPT
