|
If you have been watching TL, you know that a well known player was recently accused of maphacking. By now, I am sure you have made up your mind as to whether he did it or not, or whether there is enough evidence to say he did it or not, or whether you care or not. This blog is not about that.
One thing that I noticed during the drama is that several people said that, whether he did it or not, it is important not to throw a hacking accusation around lightly, as just the allegation alone can destroy a player's career.
As a lawyer who has represented both plaintiffs and defendants in defamation suits (not in the same case, obviously) I know that false accusations can be damaging. What I am wondering is whether there has ever been a situation in which a player was accused of hacking, was later vindicated with proof that he was not hacking, and still had his career wrecked?
I am trying to make this as NON controversial as possible--all I want to know is if UNTRUE ALLEGATIONS of hacking have ended any pro-gamer careers.
If you know what you are talking about (i.e. specific examples), please respond. Please do not include your opinion on the current controversy. I am asking for a history lesson. Thanks.
UPDATE: Sangho Shin was proposed as a possible player whose career was derailed by untrue allegations. However, shortly after retiring from BW in the wake of the Savior scandal, Sangho became TSL Killer (now playing for Complexity). While Sangho's career has continued, I certainly understand and sympathize with what he must have gone through at the time (i.e. it was probably pretty shitty).
My factual conclusions are as follows:
1. Untrue allegations have not ended player careers (again, if someone has specific examples, please let me know). This is not to say that they do not damage innocent players.
2. Proof of hacking has not always ended gamer careers (plenty of support for this one).
In my opinion, the outcry over the danger of maphacking allegations is exaggerated, but it should not be. In other words, lots of people worried that the mere allegation of maphacking would destroy a career, whether it is true or not. I do not believe this is true, and I think the evidence supports me.
The baseline integrity of the game is important. Cheating in any competition is abhorrent and should not be tolerated. Players who cheat should be exiled from the community and barred from competition (the severity and duration of the punishment to be decided by those wiser than me). Unless some overarching SC2 governing body emerges (which I do not support) the job of policing against cheaters must fall on teams, tournament organizers and the community at large.
Here are my suggestions for the community:
1. Don't cheat. If your friends cheat, explain to them how stupid they are being (side note, in around 2001 my friends and I (who were heavy CS 1.4 players at the time, threw a party. At the party, a friend of a friend mentioned that he played and was really good "too." He then explained that he used a headshot aimhack. He had to leave the party in fear for his safety.)
2. If you see something in a progamer replay, follow up on it. Investigate. Don't immediately make a thread. If you think you have some good evidence, send it to the player's team manager. OR Perhaps pm a TL mod (they can weigh in on that).
3. If you are going to accuse somebody, make sure you have evidence that nails them, unequivocably. Make sure you can express the evidence clearly and convincingly. If you are known in the community, use your main account. Take responsibility for your statements.
4. If you read an accusation made by someone else, do NOT jump on the guilty bandwagon. Examine the evidence or keep out of it. If you look at the evidence and find something that exonerates or implicates someone, contribute to the conversation, but speculation never helps anything. Consider the source of the accusers. Keep an open mind and consider the accused innocent until proven guilty--even if only in your mind. BUT
5. If the evidence is clear one way or the other, the community should recognize it. If a player is exonerated, the community should work to help rebuild the player's reputation. If a player is proven to cheat, he should be punished.
6. If you operate a team and one of your players is accused of bad behavior, I think you have to withhold judgment until you examine the evidence. The teams should not be able to be manipulated by a witch-hunt. The community should give the team of any accused player a reasonable opportunity to investigate. Under no circumstance should fans email sponsors to complain about anything, ever.
That's my two-bits.
|
The issue with Spades is that no-one proved he was hacking, he has left his team, and essentially had his career down the shitter. Followed by a dismal result at MLG, with Idra bashing him to get in on the fun, and he has been taken out of the industry with nothing being proved.
So, the accusation alone has gotten rid of him. Similarly to being arrested by association.
There was a broodwar player named Testie who would come in, hack, get caught, play legit and shit on people, hack, get caught, play legit and shit on people... He was forgiven many times over.
|
There was Sangho who was falsely accused of match-fixing with Savior and others and retired from BW as a result of that.
|
Is the testie thing true?
|
Sangho Shin:
Read.
Everyone has had at some point thought that they couldn’t go on, but only few actually attempt suicide. Sangho would see celebrities who commit suicide after rumors and slandering, and had thought they didn’t cherish life enough. But when he himself met a situation like this, he really considered ending his life.
|
On June 12 2012 09:53 WirelessWaffle wrote:
Is the testie thing true?
yes, the gist of what he said is true from what i recall (it has been a long time)
|
Would it be defamation or libel? Since it is written
|
On June 12 2012 10:19 Selkie wrote:
Would it be defamation or libel? Since it is written
you are thinking libel vs slander - which are both forms of defamation
|
Polish BW player MistrZZZ was accused of hacking numerous times, but he was vindicated every time a new hack detection method was discovered. However, it's impossible to prove that someone didn't hack in a game with no witnesses, but at least he didn't use any public hacks with known fingerprints. It's hard to say whether the accusations ruined his career or not because it's not like BW players outside of Korea ever had professional careers in the first place.
|
Someone's about to get sued?
Honestly it seems almost impossible to say, because how do you prove that the allegations weren't true? Maybe the thing with haypro a long time ago, the guy was using a maphack which included several other tools only for watching replays, and had left it on at a dreamhack. I think most people eventually agreed that he didn't cheat, and this being TL the reactions were very harsh for a while. But then again he's still a professional gamer, so.
also mistrzzz like the guy above me said, but I'm not sure whether his bad rep was due to hack suspicions so much as him being a huge asshole
|
On June 12 2012 10:33 hifriend wrote:
Someone's about to get sued?
Honestly it seems almost impossible to say, because how do you prove that the allegations weren't true? Maybe the thing with haypro a long time ago, the guy was using a maphack which included several other tools only for watching replays, and had left it on at a dreamhack. I think most people eventually agreed that he didn't cheat, and this being TL the reactions were very harsh for a while. But then again he's still a professional gamer, so.
also mistrzzz like the guy above me said, but I'm not sure whether his bad rep was due to hack suspicions so much as him being a huge asshole
Unless the person is a public figure, truth (or nontruth to be accurate) is not a necessary element to defamation and is generally only a defense to a defamation suit. So the burden of proof would be on the accuser to demonstrate that his allegations are true to protect himself from the defamation suit. In other words, the defendant, not the plaintiff, would need to prove the allegations were true for it to be any help (and not the other way around).
Hurray for studying for the bar! T.T fml...
|
^ There was plenty of proof presented for Spades, which convinced a large majority of the people. That's it, case closed. Guilty!
Also no-one of importance in any esports game has ever been accused of hacking in a manner that convinced a vast majority of people and then proven innocent.
|
On June 12 2012 11:03 Jinsho wrote:
^ There was plenty of proof presented for Spades, which convinced a large majority of the people. That's it, case closed. Guilty!
Also no-one of importance in any esports game has ever been accused of hacking in a manner that convinced a vast majority of people and then proven innocent.
If it's true that he is hacking, then it's a defense to the defamation suit thus the accuser would not be found liable for defamation. So being "guilty" (albeit this would be a civil suit) for hacking is actually great news for the person accused of defamation since truth will defeat the suit itself.
But there are alternative torts that can be used where truth cannot be a defense such as publication placing plaintiff in a false light.
Ok, time to go back studying for the bar. Everything's a fucking torts question now. I can't wait till this shit's over.
|
I guess I shouldn't have included this part. My bad.
I think that if you are a progamer, then you shouldn't be someone who gives up his dream because some people were convinced that you were maphacking. Actions speak louder than words. Provide a professional response, keep the community updated, and resolve the conflict internally through your team and supporting members. Your passion should be stronger than accusations of maphacking.
|
On June 12 2012 11:28 EienShinwa wrote:
Spades is a weak individual who had no big tournament success and gave up his supposed dream because of accusations thrown at him. Not only did he fail to respond adequately to the situation, proving his inability to stand up for himself to his sponsors, team, and potential future partners, but he also failed to act "professional" as many e-sports fanatics want from this community. All he did was write vague statements proving his "innocence", and then retired almost the next day because of his "damaged" reputation. Something is missing in this individual. That something is passion. Passion in the game. Passion in e-sports. Passion in proving his worth to this community as a pro gamer. To dismiss the situation entirely and isolate yourself by retiring is the proof that he was a hacker, unable to face the truth. You don't even have to bother with the evidence itself. That just shows a poor sport who can't address reality. He wasn't able to meet the expectations, and he failed to prove anything to anyone. That's all there is to it.
I think that if you are a progamer, then you shouldn't be someone who gives up his dream because some people were convinced that you were maphacking. Actions speak louder than words. Provide a professional response, keep the community updated, and resolve the conflict internally through your team and supporting members. Your passion should be stronger than accusations of maphacking.
Did you read the OP at all?
If you did you would realize how completely inappropriate your response is to this discussion.
To my knowledge no career has been ruined due to a fake accusation. Quite the opposite, many careers have continued due to true accusations actually.
|
On June 12 2012 12:03 Synwave wrote:
Did you read the OP at all?
If you did you would realize how completely inappropriate your response is to this discussion.
To my knowledge no career has been ruined due to a fake accusation. Quite the opposite, many careers have continued due to true accusations actually.
Judging from the posts both have happened. Which indicates that it probably depends on particular circumstances.
|
On June 12 2012 10:11 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:yes, the gist of what he said is true from what i recall (it has been a long time)
Incorrect. It's been a while but I was caught hacking in 2001 I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). I had been given the maphack by a clan mate of mine believe it or not. Was caught, stopped hacking for a short while and was given an e-mail from someone who obviously hated me saying "does this look familiar faggot?" it was a maphack. Hilariously I had been playing without one until that point, and it did not look familiar however I accustomed myself to it soon after. Likely due to a patch + my own natural laziness of going to find one and not for any personal growth reasons. I began using the new updated hack again, got caught shortly after, and stopped hacking either before summer of 2002 or mid-summer 2002. After that I never hacked again and raped face for many a year.
|
To answer the OP's question: I don't know of any examples, and I don't think there is any.
For Spades situation, I think the weight of evidence from the replays and other pros seem to indicate that he's guilty of hacking.
|
On June 12 2012 15:54 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 10:11 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 12 2012 09:53 WirelessWaffle wrote:
Is the testie thing true? yes, the gist of what he said is true from what i recall (it has been a long time) Incorrect. It's been a while but I was caught hacking in 2001 I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). I had been given the maphack by a clan mate of mine believe it or not. Was caught, stopped hacking for a short while and was given an e-mail from someone who obviously hated me saying "does this look familiar faggot?" it was a maphack. Hilariously I had been playing without one until that point, and it did not look familiar however I accustomed myself to it soon after. Likely due to a patch + my own natural laziness of going to find one and not for any personal growth reasons. I began using the new updated hack again, got caught shortly after, and stopped hacking either before summer of 2002 or mid-summer 2002. After that I never hacked again and raped face for many a year.
Thanks for the reply.
|
On June 12 2012 15:54 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 10:11 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 12 2012 09:53 WirelessWaffle wrote:
Is the testie thing true? yes, the gist of what he said is true from what i recall (it has been a long time) Incorrect. It's been a while but I was caught hacking in 2001 I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). I had been given the maphack by a clan mate of mine believe it or not. Was caught, stopped hacking for a short while and was given an e-mail from someone who obviously hated me saying "does this look familiar faggot?" it was a maphack. Hilariously I had been playing without one until that point, and it did not look familiar however I accustomed myself to it soon after. Likely due to a patch + my own natural laziness of going to find one and not for any personal growth reasons. I began using the new updated hack again, got caught shortly after, and stopped hacking either before summer of 2002 or mid-summer 2002. After that I never hacked again and raped face for many a year.
what you said is basically what the guy earlier in the thread said, which i was affirming
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
