EPTThe mystery within the mystery - Page 12
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ChristianS
United States3187 Posts
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Gheed
United States972 Posts
On June 07 2012 12:50 ChristianS wrote: Is dismayed a verb? I think not, but I also think Gheed has a much better mastery of the English language than me It is a word, although I used it wrong. I take the truthiness approach to words, if they sound right to me I'll go with it. I should have used "despaired" if I wanted to be more correct. | ||
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Vaelone
Finland4400 Posts
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LorCHsc2
Spain103 Posts
:| A lot of people tell about stop talking about this. Look at my twitter. Yesterday I said to stop about talking of Map hacking etc... so I dont understand this... EDIT: I dont understar why are you posting our twitts, twitters and our life. YOU shouldt post 'bout my life, if I'm having a baby or not. Who do you think that you are? I DO speak a poor english, but at least i try. hahahhaa OMG... I dont use hack and I dont Stream Spades's replays and you talk about me and another spanish people? I dont undesrtand, really.. Also, I dont care :D | ||
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything. Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him. Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found. Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them. Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect. First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion. Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384) This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets. tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets. Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into. My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators! Just for you to know, the replay pack was uploaded few days before the whichhunt began with consent by Karont3 and Lucifron in several spanish comunities, one of them being www.primalgamers.es which brought their casters to cast the showmatch in spanish. So anyone could have done it, you don't need to play Sherlock holmes. You can just ask them (or me) on twitter or PM in here. And I will spare you of further investigation. You can find me talking on twitter to storm giant and Lorch, and that is because the spanish scene is so small, that everyone knows everyone :D PD: I'm not the OP XD, but just for your reference, i had the replays before all this hunt started, and i'm just an average supporter. | ||
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LorCHsc2
Spain103 Posts
You are so fucking mistaked. Look better...  Anyway... you have no life right? All the time looking shit about me... Do you like me or something? You lost a lot of time reserching me.. Im so sad  "I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have. The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days." Im trully sure that im not that guy ^^ | ||
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Battleaxe
United States843 Posts
This thread is officially complete folks, we have come full circle. | ||
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ObliviousNA
United States535 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:01 Gheed wrote: It is a word, although I used it wrong. I take the truthiness approach to words, if they sound right to me I'll go with it. I should have used "despaired" if I wanted to be more correct. After your CSI extravaganza, you drop knowledge bombs like "truthiness"? Maybe only a reference Americans get, but I think I love you. | ||
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lisward
Singapore959 Posts
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CrumpetGuvnor
Australia302 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
Strange stuff going on here. | ||
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Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
On June 07 2012 18:18 CrumpetGuvnor wrote: the OP never once writes lucifron, or even Lucifron. It's always LucifroN. how many people type HuK or IdrA if they're just a fan? I do. EDIT: I'm serious check my post history. | ||
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flodeskum
Iceland1267 Posts
On June 07 2012 18:18 CrumpetGuvnor wrote: the OP never once writes lucifron, or even Lucifron. It's always LucifroN. how many people type HuK or IdrA if they're just a fan? I would... | ||
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Jasarn
Australia101 Posts
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shaaw
Spain97 Posts
I'm not the one who posted the initial analisis and i dont agree with a lots of points that guy said about the replays. But i also agree in some points he makes. I know the proof are not conclusive , but i have my opinion that he is a hacker or at least he does hacks sometimes. And yes, i know lucifron but i'm not close to him to care that much about making such a elaborate post about that... | ||
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Storm-Giant
Spain416 Posts
Me, the OP? Nope, not I am. since the first time I read the OP on TL, I've been saying to not declare Spades as a hacker just by that, and wait until more evidences are exposed. I have little post in TL? yes, because is in starcraft-esp where I mainly post, since I'm spanish thats normal  Curious to see who is really the OP though | ||
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Namunelbo
501 Posts
You have misunderstood most of this blog, the inception of it, the somehow sarcastic tone in which the author started with and how at later stages, those who sought to venture into further grounds decided to contribute on their own behalf with this 'investigation'. You have stated about your bad english (also pointed out by these 'detectives'), but please don't be so fast at judging and reconsider reading the entire blog again, most of what you state is clearly a misunderstanding. Please, try to not take this as something personal as some sort of attack against you. On June 07 2012 16:08 LorCHsc2 wrote: Loool I finally did NOTHING!! :| A lot of people tell about stop talking about this. Look at my twitter. Yesterday I said to stop about talking of Map hacking etc... so I dont understand this... EDIT: I dont understar why are you posting our twitts, twitters and our life. YOU shouldt post 'bout my life, if I'm having a baby or not. Who do you think that you are? I DO speak a poor english, but at least i try. hahahhaa OMG... I dont use hack and I dont Stream Spades's replays and you talk about me and another spanish people? I dont undesrtand, really.. Also, I dont care :D The detectives' objective is to find the identity behind the OP of the infamous hacking accusation thread of Spades, it started with a clue about Drolets' IP matching with a few users which visited this site and had another account.[¹] As it further progresses Gheed found out the poor english of Drolets, furthermore came with various conclusion about the possible origin of the user, which in the end narrowed down to Drolets being a Spaniard. After this initial clue from Gheed, other users who wished to join this 'case' would do so on their own behalf, note on this that it has been discussed on the later pages, if this investigation was really necessary and how protecting the anonymity of Drolets would be important and therefore revealing his identity not necessary. Those who decided to continue agreed on how this was a good point but also stating the cons on how anonymity would affect the accused, how it should be handled and the risks there was in keeping the user anonymity if the accused was found innocent. Other users kept contributing their research and one of them (Promethelax) expanded it further to possible users from the Spaniard scene. As the influx of information kept growing he tried to narrow it down to possible users based on the clues he had found, on possibly the way they 'wrote/spoke', their knowledge on the Spanish scene, their hardcore fanboyism, they way they got the replays... He narrowed it down to just a few users, a few of them had accounts registered on TL from Spain, which includes you in this category and ultimately somewhat outrageous the possibility if the identity behind Drolets was from the inner circle of the Duran family or the Karont3 team (this just fueled more the spirit and imagination 'to a possible thicker plot' in unveiling the mystery). There was speculation about Drolets being multiple and not just being one individual. I suppose that Promethelax during his data collection, tried to gather the maximum amount of data as possible, and what better source than Twitter, since you seem to be an avid user of the platform. He later proceeds to point out relevant information he finds interesting which could be used to match you with Drolets. Keep in mind that all this information is gathered from a Public Platform, information you made public to the internet. Promethelax didn't have any malicious intent behind; let's call this information used to complete the profile of the possible suspects. In any moment were you accused of hacking, clearly a misunderstanding of yours. The information you give about analyzing the replays on stream of the showmatch to determine wether Spades was hacking or not, was not mentioned a single time so far in the blog; it was mentioned before you had a stream, nothing more. On June 07 2012 16:42 LorCHsc2 wrote: If you think I'm Drolets.. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH You are so fucking mistaked. Look better... Anyway... you have no life right? All the time looking shit about me... Do you like me or something? You lost a lot of time reserching me.. Im so sad "I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have. The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days." Im trully sure that im not that guy ^^ Thanks for taking your time to clarify and shed more light in the case, as I mentioned previously, do not take this personal, read what I wrote. There's no need to go that far as calling the detectives of not having a life, all the detectives here use their spare time in this case for the sake of their divertimento, but more importantly for their own belief and how this kind of cases should be handled in the future. Everything posted here so far are mere speculations, nothing conclusive. All you read in this blog is not associated with the Admins/Mods of TL [¹]The Mods confirmed Drolets had a matching IP associated with other account on TL, albeit not making the information public, the detectives decided to embark on the journey of eternal conjecture. If you have trouble understanding all what I've wrote, feel free to PM me, I'll try my hardest with my chobo Spanish to explain you this blog. P.S. This information also applies for the Spaniards who couldn't see through Gheed's true intentions. | ||
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Swilvan
113 Posts
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Toxi78
966 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:54 Toxi78 wrote: just so you know, drolets is probably a nobody in the spanish scene because he uploaded a wrong picture of ieza (i know what ieza looks like and that's not him) which is very unlikely to happen if they had met at a LAN before. it cannot be a caster, lorch or shaw, it's simply not them just because they know what ieza looks like: look at what he posted on wikipedia http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/File:IeZaeL.jpg and what ieza looks like http://i.imgur.com/7hwuI.jpg (at GSL code A qualifiers) if you don't take this information into account, you're clearly an idiot. it's just a spanish fanboy with superficial fanboyism knowledge. ps : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IeZael he actually put ieza in apsc2, when we've been enemies of apsc2 for a very long time...this drolets is a troll or an idiot xD | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6168 Posts
To the varied Spanish individuals getting upset about the investigation others are doing - Tough shit. You make posts on the internet, or through twitter, and you are entering a public sphere. If you don't want people to analyze in detail everything you do online, unplug your computer and throw it out a window. Because that is the only way. You think you're anonymous, anywhere at anytime? No. Ask Amazon. Or Facebook. Or Twitter. Or Google. All of whom can probably tell you where you were yesterday, with who, and what you had for breakfast. Unlike Drolets, those investigating are being very open about it, and are giving a very good account of their reasoning. Meanwhile, you come in and laugh like trolls while providing ad hominem attacks. (This, incidentally, is probably one good example of why people don't want to post accusations without using a smurf account.) To those bemoaning "outing" a "whistle-blower" - no. Just. No. Drolets is not a whistle-blower. Drolets made an accusation on flimsy circumstantial evidence that would barely get a search warrant were it a criminal legal matter. He did so with no standing; actually, he did it with negative standing because of how internet forum "reputation" seems to work. His initial post is roughly the equivalent of pre-schooler accusing a member of Congress(Parliament, Althingi, whatever) of rigging elections. (Although the pre-schooler may have a point, he has no reputation to lend any credence, and I think I already mentioned how incredibly circumstantial the evidence given was.) He cannot be afforded whistle-blower status in another way - a whistle-blower is someone that discovers impropriety, and then reports it to an authority for investigation. A slanderer, on the other hand, is someone that finds a rumour and then plasters it on the cover of a magazine. The TL Forums are not an authority by any stretch of the imagination. I think "magazine" is a decent analogy. (This would make Reddit the Enquirer.) This is also why the OP's thread was initially closed, until other more authoritative individuals investigated the claims made and then substantiated them with better analysis and expert opinion. (Although, it should be noted, that all evidence brought forward since is circumstantial. Better than the OP provided, but still circumstantial.) Gheed, I have to say - very good blog. I feel however, that you could have done better. I feel I have evidence that Drolets may be more "foreign" than just from Spain. Now, I'm not saying Drolets is an alien... As for whether or not Spades hacks - don't care. And here's why. The only possible evidence we have is circumstantial inference based on computer recorded "actions" by a game. They may or may not be accurate whether or not a hack is involved. It's lousy evidence, all around - as someone mentioned, there's no "smoking gun". People that are trying to prove Spades isn't hacking are attempting to prove a negative - there's no way to do so. You can say all you want that this or that is "fishy" or "suspect", but there's no way for anyone to say definitively "that's not a hack". I guess, if someone had a video camera watching the entire computer, Spades' finger movements, mouse movements, and possibly bowel movements, with timestamped and witnessed affidavits handled using chain of custody evidentiary protocol, maybe you could. Even at this late date, a forensic examination of the actual computer for "hacking" software or connections would be useless, as an accuser can just say "it was formatted since then". It's impossible. The only person that can say with absolute accuracy whether or not Spades hacks, is Spades. I don't really need to illuminate how that works, do I? The only solid, 100% undeniable fact that exists in this entire screwy shambles, is that Spades' career has taken a body blow from which it may never recover. The guy has gotten death threats if he shows up at Anaheim. Any potential future earnings he may have had are gone - his reputation has been destroyed and it may have an impact in his life outside of gaming. If the accusations against him are baseless (or at the least, unprovable) he could probably make a decent case for slander (or cyberbullying) in civil court. In which case, legal counsel can subpoena records from TL and find out definitively who this Drolets is. I don't think that'll help, though. + Show Spoiler + ...because you see, Drolets is currently on his ship in lunar orbit laughing his excretory orifices off. It was all done because Spades had noticed something odd, and was investigating something himself. The lights overhead, and strange sounds during tournaments. StarCraft 2 is a way that potential extraterrestrial invaders identify the most dangerous adversaries, and then quietly take them over. Koreans are good because of practice? No, it's because they've been replaced pre-emptively. The visitors have already infiltrated Blizzard, have worked to kill BW, and are slowly ploughing the ground so they can come back and fix the ways we've messed up the world. So, I guess what I'm saying is, really... it's aliens. | ||
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