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Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
Also that screenshot is definitely not demonstrating friendship. Oh and one more thing, tone is difficult to convey in text, especially short sentences without sufficient context, it's much easier to be mistaken as offensive (or otherwise, depending on the reader) on the internet, so why not exercise caution instead of using these contested words liberally? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On May 05 2012 10:59 Kazahk wrote: imo, cunt isn't used to call people friends, while nigga is. For what ever reason people have began changing the definition of the word. Sorta how gay used to mean colorful or fag used to mean bundle of sticks. People just cling to the old definition and use the old definition as a way to say the new definition is bad. But it's relative to the person, so don't use it around people who still use the old def. Sorry but you gave a bad example; cunt still means sex slave :D (to most people ;p) Uhm, sorry, but this argument requires a fitting context. If I say something is gaily painted, or I'm feeling gay, that's one thing. But if I call a person gay, in an insulting context, I'm clearly using the word to associate negative traits with a stereotype to direct an insult, and any attempt to say it was intended to be something else is a purely semantic cop-out. If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On May 05 2012 11:03 JingleHell wrote: If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences. So eunuchs and women are lesser people because they don't have testicles? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On May 05 2012 11:06 Zorkmid wrote: So eunuchs and women are lesser people because they don't have testicles? That would be so well played, if that sort of taking things out of context wasn't exactly what people are trying to say people are doing with Destiny. "Have the balls" in this context, just means "Have the courage". balls, Slang: Vulgar . a. boldness; courage; brashness. | ||
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Snackysnacks
United States411 Posts
On May 05 2012 09:34 JingleHell wrote: If we want to get into what various comedians have said... + Show Spoiler + Oh look, using it as an insult. He may be segregating along a stereotypical fault line, but he's still using it as an offensive term. Very clearly piling a whole lot of negative attributes on to the word. The negative connotations can't be overcome in an open venue. In a private, closed forum, where you can CONTROL who hears you, the context argument can kinda work. But not anywhere semi-public. But what is private/public sector in something such as our videogame community? I see many instances where I feel what he does is more protected and other which violates and offends others, we could start with the first. I guess the first violation hes done is obviously saying it out loud in game, which can be interpreted as a public...uhh...area? And i can understand why people would be upset. Then there is the other medium such as his stream, much like a private closed off community, of people who are fine with it. Then remakes a mistake by publicly addressing it and probably throwing it around too much, hence his ban (what i see fitting, even as a destiny fan/lover) In most of those threads, it really feels like people mix up all these violations, mix up reasons why he got banned, what should be protected and where its not ok to say such shit. Hell, this is a bit painful for the non player community who likes destiny (much like the people who i bring to actually watch starcraft) than those who are already players. The general populous are shitheads, go see the fighting game and moba community, whom fanbases are some of the worst of the worst, live their daily lives without it being such a travesty when expected internet bm is thrown their way. Hell Im offended that people try to "censor" my entertainment when its easily walkable away, but i guess its up to destiny whether he should type "faggot gook" in public chat to offend people, or verbally in his stream, an option i feel would of prevented this whole entire mess. His choice i guess, i agree with the ban. Idk, im not very consistent in my post, at least i wrote maybe 1 or 2 coherent sentences. I hope.. | ||
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Kazahk
United States385 Posts
On May 05 2012 11:03 JingleHell wrote: Uhm, sorry, but this argument requires a fitting context. If I say something is gaily painted, or I'm feeling gay, that's one thing. But if I call a person gay, in an insulting context, I'm clearly using the word to associate negative traits with a stereotype to direct an insult, and any attempt to say it was intended to be something else is a purely semantic cop-out. If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences. I said it was relative and to use it around people who wont take offence to it. I never said it was ok. I was trying to say he cant compare the words cunt and nigga as people still use cunt to mean sex slave while nigga is used to mean slave/friend, depending on the context. As of now im not taking sides as I have not seen the way Destiny used the word. I would like it if you could show me though  | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 05 2012 11:50 Kazahk wrote: I said it was relative and to use it around people who wont take offence to it. I never said it was ok. I was trying to say he cant compare the words cunt and nigga as people still use cunt to mean sex slave while nigga is used to mean slave/friend, depending on the context. As of now im not taking sides as I have not seen the way Destiny used the word. I would like it if you could show me though Picture was posted in this thread. EDIT: For the context, Destiny's opponent allined him, Destiny started raging, opponent said "gg" in Korean, and Destiny called him a gook. | ||
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Kazahk
United States385 Posts
Oh shoot didn't see that, my bad. Well ok I see that it wasn't a friendly context. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On May 05 2012 11:09 JingleHell wrote: That would be so well played, if that sort of taking things out of context wasn't exactly what people are trying to say people are doing with Destiny. "Have the balls" in this context, just means "Have the courage". balls, Slang: Vulgar . a. boldness; courage; brashness. What? I'm supposed to believe that you didn't mean it that way? Sounds familiar. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 05 2012 12:01 Zorkmid wrote: What? I'm supposed to believe that you didn't mean it that way? Sounds familiar. Yes, because the other interpretation, that sperm production is required to take consequences, makes perfect sense. | ||
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Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
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DR.Ham
Netherlands621 Posts
Either way, for me, I find that people generally lack empathy on the internet, they wan't to defend their rights to abuse other people in whatever way they deem fit without thinking about how that other person feels. In the Destiny case, the guy who got racially abused was not in Destiny's stream, he was just playing some games on ladder. He didn't do anything wrong, he just wanted to play a game. I don't see how anyone can say it's ok to abuse someone else like that regardless of if you think the words involved are offensive or not. My 2 cents anyway. Sorry for the last post bringing the tone down. | ||
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Th1rdEye
United States1074 Posts
Why does everyone take this single screen shot as him being offensive? If you've ever watched his stream you would know that this is nothing, really.. But honestly, the way he talks to people online and deals with certain people, especially people he loses to, isn't the best way to go about it. Does it surprise you he got a "One month ban" of TL? Who cares, I've been banned for 90 days before, couldn't work on my stream at all. Destiny left his clan from what I heard so that's his choice. And if he's truly a good player, and has a great entertainment value, then he will have no problem finding other outlets to express that and demonstrate it.. | ||
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Th1rdEye
United States1074 Posts
On May 05 2012 13:20 Th1rdEye wrote: Just goin to add in... Why does everyone take this single screen shot as the ultimate proof or truth of him being offensive, and we have people anaylzing the context of what he's saying, etc..? If you've ever watched his stream you would know that this is nothing, really..it's a common occurence. and do you really think this is that bad? have you ever HEARD what he says.. not just types? I have watched his stream for maybe an hour total, in maybe 2-3 seperate occasions, and you can't watch it without seeing something that can be taken as offensive. It could be seen as racism at times, it could be seen as offensive..but.. WHO CARES But honestly, the way he talks to people online and deals with certain people, especially people he loses to, isn't the best way to go about it. Does it surprise you he got a "One month ban" of TL? Who cares, I've been banned for 90 days before, couldn't work on my stream at all. Destiny left his clan from what I heard so that's his choice. And if he's truly a good player, and has a great entertainment value, then he will have no problem finding other outlets to express that and demonstrate it.. quoted myself somehow. im a champ | ||
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Rice
United States1332 Posts
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Br3ezy
United States720 Posts
I always say something like wassup nigga instead of wassup niggar | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
On May 05 2012 09:22 BroOd wrote: If you want to pretend he chose that word by some random chance or co-incidence, that's fine, but don't expect many people to respect that decision or take you very seriously. I'm pretending no such thing, I'm saying that that screenshot was part of an ongoing event which was being streamed and may not be an example of racism taken in context. If you want to find real prejudice in the community I don't think you need to look very far, many comments in threads like this one or this one or this one could almost be used as definitions of the word "prejudice". And that's part of what I worry about. That the response to events like this act as a fig leaf for a community that is refusing to really look carefully at itself and really ask difficult questions. Worse than a fig leaf, by stifling genuine debate and ending up with people afraid to speak their minds publicly you drive the prejudice underground where dumb can meet dumber and come up with a catastrophically dumb point of view which can have real repercussions. I don't say dumb lightly. I have a personal conviction that I am racist, homophobic, sexist and prejudiced in all other kinds of way that I seek to discover in myself and subject to scrutiny for the simple fact that prejudice is, quite literally, ignorance. + Show Spoiler + I don't think we are alone in this either. Allow me for a moment to drift off topic to demonstrate more clearly an idea which I think is firmly on topic. In Europe while no politician can ever use a racist epithet in any context of any kind, our leaders will spout empty platitudes on the subject of race for no other reason than to capture disillusioned voters who are drifting away from main stream politics. The irony being, once more, that part of the reason for that drift is the stifling of debate. On May 05 2012 09:27 Amaterasu1234 wrote: Does it matter? Even in context the words are still offensive as evidenced by the fact that we're having this conversation about them. It's not like you hear people saying "What!? You "love" me!? I am offended by your affection! For the purpose of refuting this position I would like to say that "I <3 genocide". On May 05 2012 10:55 DeepElemBlues wrote: You don't get to decide on your own reaction to what I say. I get to decide what reactions are valid and appropriate. Absolutely, to argue otherwise is as ridiculous as saying that I get to decide when you should be happy or sad. If you read the blog you'll see that I wasn't saying "you can't be offended" but rather that the fact that some people are offended might not, in and of itself, warrant the reaction that came from the community. I'm not saying you can't be offended but I am wondering why you are offended. Maybe you were the victim of predudice or have watched prejudice in action or maybe you were prejudiced yourself and rethought your position. Essentially I'm wondering if we can get past shrill self righteousness which will brook-no-argument and actually have a difficult discussion on racism. On May 05 2012 11:01 Mobius_1 wrote: It is 2 syllables, but it is steeped in a history of oppression and discrimination and violence. I hope we can all be civil and use words that are more polite and socially acceptable, especially if we are attempting to demonstrate friendship. Also that screenshot is definitely not demonstrating friendship. Oh and one more thing, tone is difficult to convey in text, especially short sentences without sufficient context, it's much easier to be mistaken as offensive (or otherwise, depending on the reader) on the internet, so why not exercise caution instead of using these contested words liberally? I broadly agree with some of your points but I don't hope we can "all be civil and use words that are more polite and socially acceptable". If we all only ever said things that were socially acceptable it wouldn't just be boring, it would be the death of our society as new ideas wouldn't be examined and then rejected or accepted. New ideas would never heard in the first place. On May 05 2012 11:32 Snackysnacks wrote: But what is private/public sector in something such as our videogame community? I see many instances where I feel what he does is more protected and other which violates and offends others, we could start with the first. I guess the first violation hes done is obviously saying it out loud in game, which can be interpreted as a public...uhh...area? And i can understand why people would be upset. Then there is the other medium such as his stream, much like a private closed off community, of people who are fine with it. Then remakes a mistake by publicly addressing it and probably throwing it around too much, hence his ban (what i see fitting, even as a destiny fan/lover) In most of those threads, it really feels like people mix up all these violations, mix up reasons why he got banned, what should be protected and where its not ok to say such shit. Very interesting. The Public / Private division is certainly becoming more complex with new media and I think most of us agree that these two domains have different standards of what is appropriate. It's also worth being aware that Destiny has said more than one controversial thing. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger#Etymology_and_history | ||
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
On May 05 2012 12:05 Jinsho wrote: Yes, I too think comedians are the fucking pillar of common sense. I learned everything about life from a guy standing on stage makign shitty jokes for a living. Let me tell you what that guy thinks about swearing and racism and how I think it's totally cool. I'm guessing you're not familiar with the origins of comedy. Sure, some comedians are full of fluff and talk about random shit, like pockets, but the true comedic tradition stemming from the classics, and those like Aristophanes, was essential in confronting the ordinary person and implicating the ordinary perosn in the assumptions they held so dear. Humor and satire is a trend borne of the more "sophisticated" forms that you would probably not be so dismissive of, such as the writings of Mark Twain or Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man. "Jokes" about racism are an alternative form of discourse that often contain more than just a surface message (which is evident if you consider even the basic nature of satire). | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
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