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I was reading The thread when I got the urge to post a youtube vid. From what I've seen that sort of stuff is only accepted in Blogs so...
+ Show Spoiler +
That video, for me, is a highlight of American comedy of the last decade or so.
+ Show Spoiler +Extra study: I first heard of the sketch here: It's also worth pointing out that toward the end of that clip Chappelle expreses a position directly in opposition to the point I am about to make.
The sketch and the title of this blog are part of an argument which I will detail now.
Context, Motherfuckers. Context. How has Destiny used the word? Has he used it in every instance as a replacement for the noun "friend" or "dude"? As if that's the case, and I haven't heard him use it in any other way, then what people are being offended by is a collection of syllables. Should we not think very carefully before we try to stop someone speaking, or shrink their platform through activism, simply because it might offend others? It is concievable that offence might not be enough on it's own to merit attack. It puts me in mind of Christopher Hitchens having voluble opinions on god.
Therefore the judgement that it “may cause offence to others” isn't enough on it's own to justify attempting to silence someone. Though of course if you were offended yourself and not on behalf of others I'd be really interested in your point of view.
+ Show Spoiler +Perhaps Chappelle's point near the end of the actor's studio clip applies to you.
 
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my brother is in the habit of calling his friends 'cunts'. Hearing that makes me cringe, not because I find it offensive, but because I find it a very degrading thing to do to yourself, total show of no class whatsoever.
Peace, Niggers!
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This blog wasn't designed to give people an excuse to use the word casually as it's likely the conversation will get shut down very quickly then. I am interested in discussion not trying to prove a point. It's also worth nothing that this blog is a very different context - Front page of very well visited forum used for all kinds of purposes as opposed to a dedicated video feed based around a single community figure.
I'd appreciate if you edited your post.
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On May 05 2012 08:44 Rimstalker wrote:
my brother is in the habit of calling his friends 'cunts'. Hearing that makes me cringe, not because I find it offensive, but because I find it a very degrading thing to do to yourself, total show of no class whatsoever.
Peace, Niggers!
What? offensive to vaginas? its like calling your mate a pussy. Same same.
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Austin10831 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/y8F8n.jpg)
Ah, so what Destiny was really saying was:
the absolute
epitome
of being a skilless fucking dude
fuck off, friend
Also, since Chappelle's opinion is so important:
The comedian even had a segment on his THE DAVE CHAPPELLE SHOW about an all-white family, called the Niggars - but he admits the word is being misused and he's part of the problem.
Chappelle says, "That word can still start a fight... I still say it in personal conversation with my friends, I say it sometimes on stage at the comedy club and I'm not gonna make a promise that I won't say it again on television but right now I just feel like people aren't responsible enough.
"There are certain things I've been through in the last year and there's certain things I've heard people say and also all of the older black women in my family... they really get on to me about it."
source
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I don't know, did he know the player well enough to call him a gook to mean friend, which is concievable? Did he know that he was Asian or homosexual? Or was it just a collection of random swear words in an attempt to be as offensive in general terms as possible. As I said: context.
And the quote you are using is from the actor's studio link which was part of the original post, which I referenced twice and gave context for.
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On May 05 2012 08:44 Rimstalker wrote:
my brother is in the habit of calling his friends 'cunts'. Hearing that makes me cringe, not because I find it offensive, but because I find it a very degrading thing to do to yourself, total show of no class whatsoever.
Peace, Niggers!
But how is my friend gonna know I think he is cool if I don't let him know he is a sick cunt?
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There is a differences between Niggers and Niggas (Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished). Destiny used it as an offensive term ALWAYS. Context is that Destiny insults people with offensive terms repeatedly without giving a shit what other people think. I'm glad his team left him out to dry. I liked Orb better, he was my Nigga.
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On May 05 2012 09:00 Wrongspeedy wrote:
There is a differences between Niggers and Niggas. Destiny used it as an offensive term ALWAYS. Context is that Destiny insults people with offensive terms repeatedly without giving a shit what other people think. I'm glad his team left him out to dry. I liked Orb better, he was my Nigga.
TL still bans for 'nigga' btw, I would know. Might wanna edit..
Actually I guess its relevant to discussion so not big deal
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My problem with this statement, is although people tend to get upset about language in some contexts (ie huck finn etc) there are points where it is patently offensive. While I don't like what the FCC has done with broadcast, and I disilke censorship, you ahve to admit motherfucker, nigger, gook, etc are highly offensive. My friend got called a gook in the locker room, and he THREW the kid who called him that INTO A WALL. Kid was half his height, and got really badly hurt. It IS offensive. While many don't care, some do, and while I don't like the massive circlejerk going on in that Destiny thread, there is valid grounds for saying his speech should be limited when it gets that offensive.
Yet I have friends who are like hahaha, we be gooks, because there are all asian. But it's an entirely different context. And you shouldn't be saying "heck, chapelle isn't offended by Nigger, why should anybody else?"
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Austin10831 Posts
On May 05 2012 08:58 Dapper_Cad wrote:
I don't know, did he know the player well enough to call him a gook to mean friend, which is concievable? Did he know that he was Asian or homosexual? Or was it just a collection of random swear words in an attempt to be as offensive in general terms as possible. As I said: context.
And the quote you are using is from the actor's studio link which was part of the original post, which I referenced twice and gave context for.
Well, I'm sure it's easy to make the situation seem like what you want it to when you ignore the context right in front of your face, like the fact that Destiny was clearly all-in'd and that his opponent has a clearly Asian name.
And you referenced that quote in as much as you vaguely described it as part of a long youtube video, ignoring that it's pretty damning to the point you're trying to make.
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On May 05 2012 09:02 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:00 Wrongspeedy wrote:
There is a differences between Niggers and Niggas. Destiny used it as an offensive term ALWAYS. Context is that Destiny insults people with offensive terms repeatedly without giving a shit what other people think. I'm glad his team left him out to dry. I liked Orb better, he was my Nigga. TL still bans for 'nigga' btw, I would know. Might wanna edit..
I have called Orb my "******" before and never gotten banned or warned for it. It is what it is though, if they want to ban or warn me for expressing my unyielding love for Orb than so be it. Not afraid of the consequences of my actions. Though it would be silly as this Blog is about context and offensive terms.
Edit: Thank you for the concern though <3
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He has an Asian name and says "GG" in Korean. What server? Did he know the player?
On May 05 2012 08:32 Dapper_Cad wrote:
It's also worth pointing out that toward the end of that clip Chappelle expreses a position directly in opposition to the point I am about to make.
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Austin10831 Posts
On May 05 2012 09:09 Dapper_Cad wrote:He has an Asian name and says "GG" in Korean. What server? Did he know the player? Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 08:32 Dapper_Cad wrote:
It's also worth pointing out that toward the end of that clip Chappelle expreses a position directly in opposition to the point I am about to make.
If you want to pretend he chose that word by some random chance or co-incidence, that's fine, but don't expect many people to respect that decision or take you very seriously.
And I belabored that point because you didn't once address Chappelle's concerns in your argument, you simply made an allusion to their existence, which seems disingenuous to me.
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On May 05 2012 08:58 Dapper_Cad wrote:
I don't know, did he know the player well enough to call him a gook to mean friend, which is concievable? Did he know that he was Asian or homosexual? Or was it just a collection of random swear words in an attempt to be as offensive in general terms as possible. As I said: context.
Does it matter? Even in context the words are still offensive as evidenced by the fact that we're having this conversation about them. It's not like you hear people saying "What!? You "love" me!? I am offended by your affection! Go die in a fire!" (barring situations akin to those found in Jerry Springer and soap operas). So, the terms, themselves, are indeed controversial, at the very least, because of their offensive nature. And, obviously, their offensive nature applies to them in any context.
As such, I still feel wrong that he used those words.
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If we want to get into what various comedians have said...
+ Show Spoiler +
Oh look, using it as an insult. He may be segregating along a stereotypical fault line, but he's still using it as an offensive term.
Very clearly piling a whole lot of negative attributes on to the word. The negative connotations can't be overcome in an open venue. In a private, closed forum, where you can CONTROL who hears you, the context argument can kinda work. But not anywhere semi-public.
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Would you be ok if I referred to your mum as Slut Cunt in an affectionate way? You know, just as a replacement for friend or dude?
What if everyone did that to your mum? You wouldn't be offended because it's just some syllables right?
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Context, Motherfuckers. Context. How has Destiny used the word? Has he used it in every instance as a replacement for the noun "friend" or "dude"? As if that's the case, and I haven't heard him use it in any other way, then what people are being offended by is a collection of syllables. Should we not think very carefully before we try to stop someone speaking, or shrink their platform through activism, simply because it might offend others? It is concievable that offence might not be enough on it's own to merit attack. It puts me in mind of Christopher Hitchens having voluble opinions on god.
The problem with all these half-baked arguments defending Destiny on the grounds of context and intent and general linguistics is that they are incredibly presumptuous and arrogant, and dismissive of everyone else's individuality.
You don't get to decide on your own reaction to what I say. I get to decide what reactions are valid and appropriate. You have no say in the matter, my authority as an individual trumps yours. You have no authority or legitimacy unless you and I are in agreement. And it's all self-serving to me, to my advantage.
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On May 05 2012 09:51 DR.Ham wrote:
Would you be ok if I referred to your mum as Slut Cunt in an affectionate way? You know, just as a replacement for friend or dude?
What if everyone did that to your mum? You wouldn't be offended because it's just some syllables right?
imo, cunt isn't used to call people friends, while nigga is. For what ever reason people have began changing the definition of the word. Sorta how gay used to mean colorful or fag used to mean bundle of sticks. People just cling to the old definition and use the old definition as a way to say the new definition is bad. But it's relative to the person, so don't use it around people who still use the old def. Sorry but you gave a bad example; cunt still means sex slave :D (to most people ;p)
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It is 2 syllables, but it is steeped in a history of oppression and discrimination and violence. I hope we can all be civil and use words that are more polite and socially acceptable, especially if we are attempting to demonstrate friendship.
Also that screenshot is definitely not demonstrating friendship.
Oh and one more thing, tone is difficult to convey in text, especially short sentences without sufficient context, it's much easier to be mistaken as offensive (or otherwise, depending on the reader) on the internet, so why not exercise caution instead of using these contested words liberally?
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On May 05 2012 10:59 Kazahk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:51 DR.Ham wrote:
Would you be ok if I referred to your mum as Slut Cunt in an affectionate way? You know, just as a replacement for friend or dude?
What if everyone did that to your mum? You wouldn't be offended because it's just some syllables right? imo, cunt isn't used to call people friends, while nigga is. For what ever reason people have began changing the definition of the word. Sorta how gay used to mean colorful or fag used to mean bundle of sticks. People just cling to the old definition and use the old definition as a way to say the new definition is bad. But it's relative to the person, so don't use it around people who still use the old def. Sorry but you gave a bad example; cunt still means sex slave :D (to most people ;p)
Uhm, sorry, but this argument requires a fitting context. If I say something is gaily painted, or I'm feeling gay, that's one thing. But if I call a person gay, in an insulting context, I'm clearly using the word to associate negative traits with a stereotype to direct an insult, and any attempt to say it was intended to be something else is a purely semantic cop-out.
If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences.
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On May 05 2012 11:03 JingleHell wrote:
If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences.
So eunuchs and women are lesser people because they don't have testicles?
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On May 05 2012 11:06 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:03 JingleHell wrote:
If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences. So eunuchs and women are lesser people because they don't have testicles?
That would be so well played, if that sort of taking things out of context wasn't exactly what people are trying to say people are doing with Destiny.
"Have the balls" in this context, just means "Have the courage".
balls, Slang: Vulgar .
a.
boldness; courage; brashness.
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On May 05 2012 09:34 JingleHell wrote:If we want to get into what various comedians have said... + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4 Oh look, using it as an insult. He may be segregating along a stereotypical fault line, but he's still using it as an offensive term. Very clearly piling a whole lot of negative attributes on to the word. The negative connotations can't be overcome in an open venue. In a private, closed forum, where you can CONTROL who hears you, the context argument can kinda work. But not anywhere semi-public.
But what is private/public sector in something such as our videogame community? I see many instances where I feel what he does is more protected and other which violates and offends others, we could start with the first.
I guess the first violation hes done is obviously saying it out loud in game, which can be interpreted as a public...uhh...area?
And i can understand why people would be upset.
Then there is the other medium such as his stream, much like a private closed off community, of people who are fine with it.
Then remakes a mistake by publicly addressing it and probably throwing it around too much, hence his ban (what i see fitting, even as a destiny fan/lover)
In most of those threads, it really feels like people mix up all these violations, mix up reasons why he got banned, what should be protected and where its not ok to say such shit.
Hell, this is a bit painful for the non player community who likes destiny (much like the people who i bring to actually watch starcraft) than those who are already players. The general populous are shitheads, go see the fighting game and moba community, whom fanbases are some of the worst of the worst, live their daily lives without it being such a travesty when expected internet bm is thrown their way. Hell Im offended that people try to "censor" my entertainment when its easily walkable away, but i guess its up to destiny whether he should type "faggot gook" in public chat to offend people, or verbally in his stream, an option i feel would of prevented this whole entire mess.
His choice i guess, i agree with the ban.
Idk, im not very consistent in my post, at least i wrote maybe 1 or 2 coherent sentences.
I hope..
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On May 05 2012 11:03 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:59 Kazahk wrote:On May 05 2012 09:51 DR.Ham wrote:
Would you be ok if I referred to your mum as Slut Cunt in an affectionate way? You know, just as a replacement for friend or dude?
What if everyone did that to your mum? You wouldn't be offended because it's just some syllables right? imo, cunt isn't used to call people friends, while nigga is. For what ever reason people have began changing the definition of the word. Sorta how gay used to mean colorful or fag used to mean bundle of sticks. People just cling to the old definition and use the old definition as a way to say the new definition is bad. But it's relative to the person, so don't use it around people who still use the old def. Sorry but you gave a bad example; cunt still means sex slave :D (to most people ;p) Uhm, sorry, but this argument requires a fitting context. If I say something is gaily painted, or I'm feeling gay, that's one thing. But if I call a person gay, in an insulting context, I'm clearly using the word to associate negative traits with a stereotype to direct an insult, and any attempt to say it was intended to be something else is a purely semantic cop-out. If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences.
I said it was relative and to use it around people who wont take offence to it. I never said it was ok. I was trying to say he cant compare the words cunt and nigga as people still use cunt to mean sex slave while nigga is used to mean slave/friend, depending on the context. As of now im not taking sides as I have not seen the way Destiny used the word. I would like it if you could show me though 
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On May 05 2012 11:50 Kazahk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:03 JingleHell wrote:On May 05 2012 10:59 Kazahk wrote:On May 05 2012 09:51 DR.Ham wrote:
Would you be ok if I referred to your mum as Slut Cunt in an affectionate way? You know, just as a replacement for friend or dude?
What if everyone did that to your mum? You wouldn't be offended because it's just some syllables right? imo, cunt isn't used to call people friends, while nigga is. For what ever reason people have began changing the definition of the word. Sorta how gay used to mean colorful or fag used to mean bundle of sticks. People just cling to the old definition and use the old definition as a way to say the new definition is bad. But it's relative to the person, so don't use it around people who still use the old def. Sorry but you gave a bad example; cunt still means sex slave :D (to most people ;p) Uhm, sorry, but this argument requires a fitting context. If I say something is gaily painted, or I'm feeling gay, that's one thing. But if I call a person gay, in an insulting context, I'm clearly using the word to associate negative traits with a stereotype to direct an insult, and any attempt to say it was intended to be something else is a purely semantic cop-out. If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences. I said it was relative and to use it around people who wont take offence to it. I never said it was ok. I was trying to say he cant compare the words cunt and nigga as people still use cunt to mean sex slave while nigga is used to mean slave/friend, depending on the context. As of now im not taking sides as I have not seen the way Destiny used the word. I would like it if you could show me though
Picture was posted in this thread.
EDIT: For the context, Destiny's opponent allined him, Destiny started raging, opponent said "gg" in Korean, and Destiny called him a gook.
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On May 05 2012 11:52 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:50 Kazahk wrote:On May 05 2012 11:03 JingleHell wrote:On May 05 2012 10:59 Kazahk wrote:On May 05 2012 09:51 DR.Ham wrote:
Would you be ok if I referred to your mum as Slut Cunt in an affectionate way? You know, just as a replacement for friend or dude?
What if everyone did that to your mum? You wouldn't be offended because it's just some syllables right? imo, cunt isn't used to call people friends, while nigga is. For what ever reason people have began changing the definition of the word. Sorta how gay used to mean colorful or fag used to mean bundle of sticks. People just cling to the old definition and use the old definition as a way to say the new definition is bad. But it's relative to the person, so don't use it around people who still use the old def. Sorry but you gave a bad example; cunt still means sex slave :D (to most people ;p) Uhm, sorry, but this argument requires a fitting context. If I say something is gaily painted, or I'm feeling gay, that's one thing. But if I call a person gay, in an insulting context, I'm clearly using the word to associate negative traits with a stereotype to direct an insult, and any attempt to say it was intended to be something else is a purely semantic cop-out. If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences. I said it was relative and to use it around people who wont take offence to it. I never said it was ok. I was trying to say he cant compare the words cunt and nigga as people still use cunt to mean sex slave while nigga is used to mean slave/friend, depending on the context. As of now im not taking sides as I have not seen the way Destiny used the word. I would like it if you could show me though Picture was posted in this thread.
Oh shoot didn't see that, my bad. Well ok I see that it wasn't a friendly context.
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On May 05 2012 11:09 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:06 Zorkmid wrote:On May 05 2012 11:03 JingleHell wrote:
If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences. So eunuchs and women are lesser people because they don't have testicles? That would be so well played, if that sort of taking things out of context wasn't exactly what people are trying to say people are doing with Destiny. "Have the balls" in this context, just means "Have the courage". balls, Slang: Vulgar . a. boldness; courage; brashness.
What? I'm supposed to believe that you didn't mean it that way?
Sounds familiar.
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On May 05 2012 12:01 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:09 JingleHell wrote:On May 05 2012 11:06 Zorkmid wrote:On May 05 2012 11:03 JingleHell wrote:
If you're going to talk that way, at least have the balls to take the consequences. So eunuchs and women are lesser people because they don't have testicles? That would be so well played, if that sort of taking things out of context wasn't exactly what people are trying to say people are doing with Destiny. "Have the balls" in this context, just means "Have the courage". balls, Slang: Vulgar . a. boldness; courage; brashness. What? I'm supposed to believe that you didn't mean it that way? Sounds familiar.
Yes, because the other interpretation, that sperm production is required to take consequences, makes perfect sense.
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Yes, I too think comedians are the fucking pillar of common sense. I learned everything about life from a guy standing on stage makign shitty jokes for a living. Let me tell you what that guy thinks about swearing and racism and how I think it's totally cool.
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Well, in all of my many years, I have never heard that definition of the C-word (sex slave). You learn something new every day.
Either way, for me, I find that people generally lack empathy on the internet, they wan't to defend their rights to abuse other people in whatever way they deem fit without thinking about how that other person feels. In the Destiny case, the guy who got racially abused was not in Destiny's stream, he was just playing some games on ladder. He didn't do anything wrong, he just wanted to play a game. I don't see how anyone can say it's ok to abuse someone else like that regardless of if you think the words involved are offensive or not. My 2 cents anyway.
Sorry for the last post bringing the tone down.
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Just goin to add in...
Why does everyone take this single screen shot as him being offensive?
If you've ever watched his stream you would know that this is nothing, really..
But honestly, the way he talks to people online and deals with certain people, especially people he loses to, isn't the best way to go about it. Does it surprise you he got a "One month ban" of TL? Who cares, I've been banned for 90 days before, couldn't work on my stream at all.
Destiny left his clan from what I heard so that's his choice. And if he's truly a good player, and has a great entertainment value, then he will have no problem finding other outlets to express that and demonstrate it..
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On May 05 2012 13:20 Th1rdEye wrote:
Just goin to add in...
Why does everyone take this single screen shot as the ultimate proof or truth of him being offensive, and we have people anaylzing the context of what he's saying, etc..?
If you've ever watched his stream you would know that this is nothing, really..it's a common occurence. and do you really think this is that bad? have you ever HEARD what he says.. not just types?
I have watched his stream for maybe an hour total, in maybe 2-3 seperate occasions, and you can't watch it without seeing something that can be taken as offensive. It could be seen as racism at times, it could be seen as offensive..but.. WHO CARES
But honestly, the way he talks to people online and deals with certain people, especially people he loses to, isn't the best way to go about it. Does it surprise you he got a "One month ban" of TL? Who cares, I've been banned for 90 days before, couldn't work on my stream at all.
Destiny left his clan from what I heard so that's his choice. And if he's truly a good player, and has a great entertainment value, then he will have no problem finding other outlets to express that and demonstrate it..
quoted myself somehow. im a champ
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lmao are people actually trying to argue context with this? Arguing context for destiny is actually arguing against destiny, the context in which he said it was the exact context in which the word would originally have been meant to offend.
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are you sure it isnt nigga?
I always say something like wassup nigga instead of wassup niggar
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On May 05 2012 09:22 BroOd wrote:
If you want to pretend he chose that word by some random chance or co-incidence, that's fine, but don't expect many people to respect that decision or take you very seriously.
I'm pretending no such thing, I'm saying that that screenshot was part of an ongoing event which was being streamed and may not be an example of racism taken in context.
If you want to find real prejudice in the community I don't think you need to look very far, many comments in threads like this one or this one or this one could almost be used as definitions of the word "prejudice".
And that's part of what I worry about. That the response to events like this act as a fig leaf for a community that is refusing to really look carefully at itself and really ask difficult questions. Worse than a fig leaf, by stifling genuine debate and ending up with people afraid to speak their minds publicly you drive the prejudice underground where dumb can meet dumber and come up with a catastrophically dumb point of view which can have real repercussions.
I don't say dumb lightly. I have a personal conviction that I am racist, homophobic, sexist and prejudiced in all other kinds of way that I seek to discover in myself and subject to scrutiny for the simple fact that prejudice is, quite literally, ignorance.
+ Show Spoiler +I don't think we are alone in this either. Allow me for a moment to drift off topic to demonstrate more clearly an idea which I think is firmly on topic. In Europe while no politician can ever use a racist epithet in any context of any kind, our leaders will spout empty platitudes on the subject of race for no other reason than to capture disillusioned voters who are drifting away from main stream politics. The irony being, once more, that part of the reason for that drift is the stifling of debate.
On May 05 2012 09:27 Amaterasu1234 wrote:
Does it matter? Even in context the words are still offensive as evidenced by the fact that we're having this conversation about them. It's not like you hear people saying "What!? You "love" me!? I am offended by your affection!
For the purpose of refuting this position I would like to say that "I <3 genocide".
On May 05 2012 10:55 DeepElemBlues wrote:
You don't get to decide on your own reaction to what I say. I get to decide what reactions are valid and appropriate.
Absolutely, to argue otherwise is as ridiculous as saying that I get to decide when you should be happy or sad. If you read the blog you'll see that I wasn't saying "you can't be offended" but rather that the fact that some people are offended might not, in and of itself, warrant the reaction that came from the community.
I'm not saying you can't be offended but I am wondering why you are offended. Maybe you were the victim of predudice or have watched prejudice in action or maybe you were prejudiced yourself and rethought your position. Essentially I'm wondering if we can get past shrill self righteousness which will brook-no-argument and actually have a difficult discussion on racism.
On May 05 2012 11:01 Mobius_1 wrote:
It is 2 syllables, but it is steeped in a history of oppression and discrimination and violence. I hope we can all be civil and use words that are more polite and socially acceptable, especially if we are attempting to demonstrate friendship.
Also that screenshot is definitely not demonstrating friendship.
Oh and one more thing, tone is difficult to convey in text, especially short sentences without sufficient context, it's much easier to be mistaken as offensive (or otherwise, depending on the reader) on the internet, so why not exercise caution instead of using these contested words liberally?
I broadly agree with some of your points but I don't hope we can "all be civil and use words that are more polite and socially acceptable". If we all only ever said things that were socially acceptable it wouldn't just be boring, it would be the death of our society as new ideas wouldn't be examined and then rejected or accepted. New ideas would never heard in the first place.
On May 05 2012 11:32 Snackysnacks wrote:
But what is private/public sector in something such as our videogame community? I see many instances where I feel what he does is more protected and other which violates and offends others, we could start with the first.
I guess the first violation hes done is obviously saying it out loud in game, which can be interpreted as a public...uhh...area?
And i can understand why people would be upset.
Then there is the other medium such as his stream, much like a private closed off community, of people who are fine with it.
Then remakes a mistake by publicly addressing it and probably throwing it around too much, hence his ban (what i see fitting, even as a destiny fan/lover)
In most of those threads, it really feels like people mix up all these violations, mix up reasons why he got banned, what should be protected and where its not ok to say such shit.
Very interesting. The Public / Private division is certainly becoming more complex with new media and I think most of us agree that these two domains have different standards of what is appropriate. It's also worth being aware that Destiny has said more than one controversial thing.
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On May 05 2012 12:05 Jinsho wrote:
Yes, I too think comedians are the fucking pillar of common sense. I learned everything about life from a guy standing on stage makign shitty jokes for a living. Let me tell you what that guy thinks about swearing and racism and how I think it's totally cool.
I'm guessing you're not familiar with the origins of comedy. Sure, some comedians are full of fluff and talk about random shit, like pockets, but the true comedic tradition stemming from the classics, and those like Aristophanes, was essential in confronting the ordinary person and implicating the ordinary perosn in the assumptions they held so dear. Humor and satire is a trend borne of the more "sophisticated" forms that you would probably not be so dismissive of, such as the writings of Mark Twain or Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man. "Jokes" about racism are an alternative form of discourse that often contain more than just a surface message (which is evident if you consider even the basic nature of satire).
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Absolutely, consider the classical image of the jester. The joker who lampoons the king, telling him what no one else will.
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People here especially non Americans need a lesson in slavery and jim crow. You need to understand that the n word represents a heinous and extremely upsetting period of time for a majority of black people in the USA and related to those in the Caribbean especially (and South Africa), it is immediately reminiscent of something that can, legitimately, right now, give them a reason to hate the white culture and the very recent history of the whites in the USA (especially the south). Just stop using that word...it's not hard. No dumb reason you can give for wanting to say the word is ever going to justify it.
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On May 06 2012 20:38 sc4k wrote:
People here especially non Americans need a lesson in slavery and jim crow. You need to understand that the n word represents a heinous and extremely upsetting period of time for a majority of black people in the USA and related to those in the Caribbean especially (and South Africa), it is immediately reminiscent of something that can, legitimately, right now, give them a reason to hate the white culture and the very recent history of the whites in the USA (especially the south). Just stop using that word...it's not hard. No dumb reason you can give for wanting to say the word is ever going to justify it.
I don't use the word nigger and all I ever hear it from is either from black americans (or people like destiny using it as a curse word). Why do they use it, when they don't want to hear it? Does not make any sense to me.
It's like me and being german. I know the Nazi's were terrible and I'm used to getting called Nazi on the internet.
All I ever hear that term from is either germans ridiculing Nazis (or people on the internet using it as a curse word).
Should I as a german now feel offended if someone uses the word 'nazi' on me or others? No, obviously not, because it's just a word without a meaning nowadays.
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Ironic you say this considering the strict laws your country still to this day has regarding usage of that term and related symbology. It would seem that many in your country do not share your viewpoint that "nazi" is "just a word without a meaning nowadays"
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On May 06 2012 20:58 Xiron wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 20:38 sc4k wrote:
People here especially non Americans need a lesson in slavery and jim crow. You need to understand that the n word represents a heinous and extremely upsetting period of time for a majority of black people in the USA and related to those in the Caribbean especially (and South Africa), it is immediately reminiscent of something that can, legitimately, right now, give them a reason to hate the white culture and the very recent history of the whites in the USA (especially the south). Just stop using that word...it's not hard. No dumb reason you can give for wanting to say the word is ever going to justify it. Should I as a german now feel offended if someone uses the word 'nazi' on me or others? No, obviously not, because it's just a word without a meaning nowadays.
Does the word nazi represent a time when your people were persecuted heinously? Comparing nazi to the n word is tragically ignorant...
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On May 06 2012 20:38 sc4k wrote:
People here especially non Americans need a lesson in slavery and jim crow. You need to understand that the n word represents a heinous and extremely upsetting period of time for a majority of black people in the USA and related to those in the Caribbean especially (and South Africa), it is immediately reminiscent of something that can, legitimately, right now, give them a reason to hate the white culture and the very recent history of the whites in the USA (especially the south). Just stop using that word...it's not hard. No dumb reason you can give for wanting to say the word is ever going to justify it.
So are you saying that because someone lives in a society which was more recently more racist that their views on racism are more valid? I see the argument but I don't agree. In fact I think there is hidden prejudice in the statement itself as you are identifying people not as individuals but as members of a group (being American citizens) which gives them access to the discourse which noone else can have.
Essentially even a slave's arguments about slavery maybe be less useful or coherent than someone who has only had slavery explained to them 5 minutes ago. I think it's unlikely but I'd take the time to hear the arguments themselves rather than judging the arguments by the nationality of the mouth that stated them.
On May 06 2012 21:08 talleyhooo wrote:
Ironic you say this considering the strict laws your country still to this day has regarding usage of that term and related symbology. It would seem that many in your country do not share your viewpoint that "nazi" is "just a word without a meaning nowadays"
I'm fairly sure you can call someone a Nazi in Germany. From what I could find...
"Membership in a Nazi party, incitement of hatred against a segment of the population (Volksverhetzung) and Holocaust denial are illegal in Germany."
Do you have any sources?
+ Show Spoiler +Also you're being pretty off hand with someone who is talking about their own experiences with racism. Just my opinion of your tone of course. Not an accusation.
On May 06 2012 21:16 sc4k wrote:
Does the word nazi represent a time when your people were persecuted heinously? Comparing nazi to the n word is tragically ignorant...
"Your people"? What do you mean? Were Germans persecuted in Nazi Germany? Jewish Germans, Homosexual Germans, Black Germans, Germans with political ideas that the Nazi party deemed subversive. I'd say yes. Is the persecution of Germans in Nazi Germany the same thing as the legacy of slavery and current levels of Racism in the U.S. obviously not. Is someone who is German being called a "Nazi" for no reason on the internet a racial slur. I'd also say yes. What is your argument?
EDIT:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 06 2012 20:58 Xiron wrote:
[Nazi] is just a word without a meaning nowadays. For the sake of completeness I should say that I don't agree with this quote either. Though I hope that would be clear from the paragraph above I'm also wary of the assumption that I'm only arguing with posters who feel certain words are simply unacceptable in any context.
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8748 Posts
Some words can cause injury, not just offense. A word can be used in any context and three different people can have three different responses: injury, offense, apathy. I don't know why people can't just trust this. It seems a lot of forum heroes are too proud of their intelligence to take someone else's word for it but too lazy to properly educate themselves by reading good books and academic papers on the subject. No one gives a shit about the arguments you thought up in the first 30 minutes of thinking about a topic which you have no substantial knowledge of. It doesn't matter how clever or logically sound your arguments are. They're trash compared to what people who are truly passionate and truly educated on the subject have already published.
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Basically Destint doens't fit either category.
He's not saying it in a friendly way.
But he is also not saying it because he hates their race, it's kind of like saying "fuck off fucking steve", does he have anything against the name steve, no just one person in that category.
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Can we have the title of this thread changed please? I'm guessing it's the name of the Chapelle skit but the title itself is NSFW. I can't even open the blogs during downtime at work as long as this blog keeps getting bumped.
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Destiny called someone he thought was Korean a "gook". No excuse for that. I wouldn't want someone who is in charge of getting good press for my product doing that. Generally, if you ever want to be a professional anything-that-isn't-comedian it's best to be PC. Saying "nigger" or any other racist word will offend people.
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You know how when people bring up freedom of speech, they point out that it goes both ways. Destiny is free to say what he wants, but we're also free to be offended and call him out, and rat him out to his sponsors if we think he's doing a poor job representing them.
Free speech isn't something you get to hide behind when you overreach and shit on people's sensibilities, it implies a certain sense of responsibility for your actions and the repercussions.
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On May 10 2012 0339 Liquid`NonY wrote
It seems a lot of forum heroes are too proud of their intelligence to take someone else's word for it but too lazy to properly educate themselves by reading good books and academic papers on the subject. No one gives a shit about the arguments you thought up in the first 30 minutes of thinking about a topic which you have no substantial knowledge of. It doesn't matter how clever or logically sound your arguments are. They're trash compared to what people who are truly passionate and truly educated on the subject have already published.
Aside from being a forum hero I also live in a world in which I encounter racism and the results of racism. I come away from your post (perhaps mistakenly) thinking “Don't discuss racism here unless you are widely read on the subject” and you might be right, I don't know. Perhaps this is the wrong forum for this discussion. I see team liquid as a place where difficult topics are debated openly by some people with interesting views and some people with poorly informed views. I enjoy the site because sometimes I might be forced, on reflection, to realise that my view is formed in ignorance, and thus I have something to learn so the next time I express a view it might be less wrong. But, of course, that's not what everyone comes here for.
I would still like to see more from these recent explosions in the TL community concerning casters and racism than a vague memory of the “the xyz debacle” and sponsored casters modifying their vocabulary. Racism is real, most everybody here will have had and will continue to have encounters with people whose thinking is informed by racial prejudice and whose actions effect lives.
The community has encountered a small piece of this huge and difficult subject with an unsurprisingly (welcome to TL) wildly divided result with people on each side of the debate expressing anger and frustration. Could there be a more lasting and positive outcome for this encounter? A possibility that the community can form around a set of rules, or even just a statement, that represents our contempt for racism:
Racism is generally understood as either belief that different racial groups are characterized by intrinsic characteristics or abilities and that some such groups are therefore naturally superior to others or as practices that discriminate against members of particular racial groups, for example by perpetuating unequal access to resources between groups.
+ Show Spoiler +Sorry, I'm kind of angry so I'm going to vent:
The ignorant and destructive practice of lumping humans into racially segregated sets so that we can make quicker judgements about the people we encounter. A badge of lazy thinking, sometimes worn with pride. “I am a person who doesn't have the inclination to see another individual as one in nearly 7 billion, that's too much like hard work. I know, I'll make a few assumptions so as not to strain myself... Oh and by the way, while I'm not really bothered with you I figured I'd use you for my personal gain or to make me feel better about myself because you're only another [insert racial epithet here].”
[/rant]
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EPT
