When I think about all the things people say would be great "for esports" I notice a funny pattern.
Wouldn't it be great if...
...there was lan? ...games were on tv? ...teams had bigger sponsors? ...commentary was more professional? ...battles were more multi-dimensional? ...carriers didn't suck?
The conclusion always seems to be "buy more tshirts" or "wait for HotS," but hold on a minute- didn't we already have game with all of that stuff? Where were our esports champions when BW was struggling? They were cheering on its death "for esports."
If everyone cares so much about esports why didn't they lift a finger to try to save the game that made "esports" a serious thing? Because the graphics are too old? Because it doesn't have English commentary? People could have petitioned Blizzard for a HD remake. They could have tried to build up English-speaking community interest through twitter and youtube. But no, they were too busy throwing shitstorms because someone said "nigger" on the internet.
What if "esports" wasn't about gaming as a legitimate sport? What if it was about certain companies profiting off of easilly manipulated netizens? Then the situation would make a lot more sense. Let's go back to the "What if" questions. How often does the given answer involve buying something? Who really wants "esports" to take off?
Maybe you think this is crazy conspiracy theory, but when you're looking back 10 years from now you'll be sorry your build didn't include a tin foil armor timing.
esports isnt a legit sport. Sports last a long time. All sports stay around and have a long history. BW, the last chance of that failed (long history, good gameplay throughout time) died. It was also nice that BW had consistent contenders (some players consistently make ro8, some are dominant, etc)
We have to wait a lot longer for another change of getting a real esport. O well.
I'm sorry pal , but out there things and people arent like in TL
there is no Rekrul working inside Blizzard, no one who really cared about anything that we did while we were asking for mutalisk micro in star2, blizzard wasnt really willing to do, when we asked for LAN , Blizz's will was strong enough not to implement that~
now , everything dies with time my tl friend, even our universe is getting colder and is close to its 0 Kelvin move on, you can just leave TL and RTS, try playing indie games or something like that
Even though I don't like it, LoL is the biggest esport now. Why is that so? Free to play, simple gameplay. It is accessible to the masses. Why do certain sports like soccer (football) and basketball have a huge following too? The same reasons. BW has one of the most user-unfriendly gameplay features: 12 unit selection, worker rally etc. The only reason why BW didn't die sooner is because there's no other RTS which is actually balanced. In this modern day and age, things get outdated really quickly. BW has lived longer than any other game; you should take pride in that.
Pretty sure eSports doesn't only include Blizzard titles so, other than the fact that the only people who would be interested in saving BW would be avid BW fans themselves, I don't think anyone else really gives a shit about eSports. They only give a shit about their own games.
-edit-
Which is ironic I said that because I am a 'eSports enthusiast' hmm....
Well, the game has been played for over a decade. I mean, everyone must have at least wondered in the back of their heads, even when BW was still roaring strong pre-scandal, how long this game would last, right? Anyone who literally thought that "BW is forever!" just had to be delusional. Even more so for those people that say those things now... it actually puzzles me when some posters I don't recognize say those things. It must be figurative, but I wonder if some of those posts are actually earnest.
eSports is real because the community is real. There is fan support. There are fans who would make times available in their precious lives to spare a couple hours to watch live, on TV, or on stream, the valiant battles between passionate professionals that elevated the level of play to unprecedented levels.
eSports didn't save BW because the fans left, and the sponsors then found little reasons to continue pouring money into where the fans weren't at. Why did the fans leave? Maybe some got tired of watching the same game over and over. Some moved on to the new, shiny, and simple things. Many fans left after match-fixing scandal because they were disappointed and disgusted.
eSports is what the fans make out of it. It's exactly where the fans are. If the fans think words like nigger, faggot, and gook are acceptable because it's "the internet", then that's exactly what eSports stand for. If blatantly throwing a broadcast match is fine as long as the results didn't matter to the tournament standings, then that's what eSports is worth - nothing unless it matters for some tournament standings!
On May 03 2012 00:14 ZoW wrote: did you know the whole "ESPORTS" thing was originally used as a sarcastic and satirical joke? funny how things turn out eh
In capitals, maybe, but Korean Esports Association existed for a long time before 'esports' was made fun of. It was the sincere effort to make video games into sports, and BW was the one they experience the most success with (although kart rider and Sudden Fight still seems to be going on, I think they're pretty niche little productions; no idea what their players make).
eSports didn't save BW because the fans left
Didn't you translate interviews where sponsors said there was significant fanbase in korea still? I am confused on this point. I thought it wasn't that the korean fanbase got too small, it's that sponsors saw SC2 and said 'hey an international game' and thought international branding is more attractive. Maybe esports tv one season of proleague was supposed to be a too little too late effort to prove bw has a foreign audience. But streamers on TL were still king, I saw them with 2000 simultaneous viewers a lot, which might not have been calculated by any sponsors.
zz~ I think this point requires more careful thought.
is full of so many delusional posts. Like, there's so many of them that I just have to accept that a lot of them are earnest. The thing is, I don't even find it to be enthusiasm anymore. Just a kind of broken and seriously unhealthy devotion. It's basically cult-like sometimes.
On May 03 2012 00:14 ZoW wrote: did you know the whole "ESPORTS" thing was originally used as a sarcastic and satirical joke? funny how things turn out eh
On May 03 2012 00:14 ZoW wrote: did you know the whole "ESPORTS" thing was originally used as a sarcastic and satirical joke? funny how things turn out eh
In capitals, maybe, but Korean Esports Association existed for a long time before 'esports' was made fun of. It was the sincere effort to make video games into sports, and BW was the one they experience the most success with (although kart rider and Sudden Fight still seems to be going on, I think they're pretty niche little productions; no idea what their players make).
Didn't you translate interviews where sponsors said there was significant fanbase in korea still? I am confused on this point. I thought it wasn't that the korean fanbase got too small, it's that sponsors saw SC2 and said 'hey an international game' and thought international branding is more attractive. Maybe esports tv one season of proleague was supposed to be a too little too late effort to prove bw has a foreign audience. But streamers on TL were still king, I saw them with 2000 simultaneous viewers a lot, which might not have been calculated by any sponsors.
zz~ I think this point requires more careful thought.
Yeah, I translated a bunch of articles in the past. There are conflicting opinions and "facts", as it is usually the case with media. I'm not there live at Korea to witness the number of fans at the Yongsan stadium, nor do I know the exact viewership statistics, so I can't say for sure. My impression is that the number of fans were on the decline ever since the scandal, and it showed in some of the recent ODT matches where a ton of seats were empty (despite OSL being the only BW tournament available right now). There are probably still a good number of fans, but not enough to sustain the scene in the eyes of the sponsors.
I went to a BarCraft for the MLG and as I was waiting for my friend to arrive the organiser came and spoke to me. I told him that I honestly preferred Brood War to SC2 and he said words to the effect of "But eurgh, that can't be so great to watch, all pixelated and that? Wouldn't look good on the big screen." I bit my tongue and smiled! I would have thought that somebody organising a BarCraft would have been somebody involved with StarCraft for a long time. Turns out that most of the people going crazy for SC2 had very little time for Brood War back when it was flourishing and are therefore clueless.
is full of so many delusional posts. Like, there's so many of them that I just have to accept that a lot of them are earnest. The thing is, I don't even find it to be enthusiasm anymore. Just a kind of broken and seriously unhealthy devotion. It's basically cult-like sometimes.
Eh.
hahaha yeah some shit in that thread is ridiculous
On May 03 2012 02:31 3Form wrote: Because SC2 killed Brood War?
I went to a BarCraft for the MLG and as I was waiting for my friend to arrive the organiser came and spoke to me. I told him that I honestly preferred Brood War to SC2 and he said words to the effect of "But eurgh, that can't be so great to watch, all pixelated and that? Wouldn't look good on the big screen." I bit my tongue and smiled! I would have thought that somebody organising a BarCraft would have been somebody involved with StarCraft for a long time. Turns out that most of the people going crazy for SC2 had very little time for Brood War back when it was flourishing and are therefore clueless.
Attracted to SC2 by the hype machine.
That's the funny thing - only perhaps half a dozen barcraft organizers (of roughly five-hundred involved) were around for the BW scene (I am not one of them).
BW was only an e-sport in Korea and it was on the decline
while BW still is definitely bigger than SC2 in Korea, it seems that the Koreans/KESPA believes that BW will continue declining, so they are going to attempt to transition to SC2 because it has a larger global following and is attracting more international sponsors
whether this transition to SC2 will actually be successful or not, I don't know. I'm not even sure if the Koreans will accept SC2 to the point of fandom that BW currently possesses, but KESPA is hoping a revitalization will happen through SC2.
When computer capabilities plateau (or reach a sufficient level of power and low cost), then there is a chance of a long-term esport game. Until then, people will always migrate from game to game as new graphics and gameplay.
On May 03 2012 07:02 Arterial wrote: Because when people say "esports" they just mean Starcraft II.
That's the f*cking truth.
I have to wonder if that's even true sometimes. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone actually praise SC2 itself? The discussion is always about players or tournaments or whatever stupid drama Reddit came up with for the week. The only time people talk about the game is complaining about shit being imba.
On May 03 2012 01:54 N.geNuity wrote: because ESPORTS is stupid and koreans don't pay tickets to watch.
This be true. Yet, in the Western world we can dish out over 500 bucks a year just to watch HD online streams.
On May 03 2012 07:02 Arterial wrote: Because when people say "esports" they just mean Starcraft II.
That's the f*cking truth.
No, that's only the guys who came around during SC2.
Esports has been used to describe our gaming trends for a very long time. It really isn't a new expression, but because people want to see video games do well as spectator sports and they want this ideal communion, which doesn't exist when you see all the jockeying. It was always a bullshit expression and as someone pointed out before. Promoting esports on this very website started off as a joke.
When we talk about esports and WCG they were pretty serious at the time, but then again you'll have people saying that the WCG competition was always a joke in the same breath.
As for SC2 KILLED BW ESPORTS IS STUPID WAH, sure yeah SC2 sure killed the vibrant and alive foreigner BW scene that existed, everyone white guy switched to sc2 because it was clearly a better game hahaha. And man, SC2 is so sucessful in Korea, it totally took over from BW, invading the PC Bangs and taking all the fans away from watching BW!
I wonder why kids stop playing with sticks pretending to be knights in shiny armor ?
Things are bound to change alas everything related to the internet changes extremely fast. Is it sad to see ? Yes, but it's inevitable. MySpace was bound to die when Facebook first appeared, and nowadays it is a shadow of its former glory. BW will have the same destiny. Whether you choose to do emotional circlejerk all the time in every part of TL or not.
My take on the situation that is e-sport has no back bone at all, it's just a freaking propaganda use by companies and developers to promote their new game . Every new game comes out just slap on the usual " For E-Sports" and with shiny graphics the game is good to go and it will pull crowd . Counter strike is still being played in europe and oldies like fnatic are still at loggerhead with the remaining cs 1.6 team that is still playing the game competitively. Although I mean loggerhead means having a healthy competition between the remaining teams.
This professionals refuse to switch because cs 1.6 is the game they chose to play with professionally do they want to switch to something that they deem is sub par ? I don't think so . Talking about change sc2 death is also inevitable if it doesn't step up it's game to develop a much more friendly UI/social and appeal to the game .
I can already see Dota2 and LoL numbers increasing everyday sooner or later one of these two will be the new e-sport .
OP, you bring a very good point. However, to me, the answer is exactly the same as to why people buy Apple phones. I can make a very similar list as the one you did for esports.
Why bother with iTunes ? Why can't I have an external SD card ? Why is it such a pain in the ass to remove my SIM card unless I always keep a paper clip in my pocket ? Why can't I have a second battery ? And all of the above for a higher price ?
At least Steve Jobs had more qualities than Dustin Browder and Paul Sams altogether.
BW was popular, but only in korea, and if it was truly self-sustaining, then it would've last forever.
Outside of korea, it's popularity was magnified by a lot of BW-elitists. This magnification is enhanced by TL since it is a pro-BW site.
The simple truth is that other games are now more popular than BW - LoL is definitely a big craze and SC2 is also ahead of it. The simple truth of people wanting to watch pros playing the game they are playing.
On May 03 2012 21:56 Klonere wrote: As for SC2 KILLED BW ESPORTS IS STUPID WAH, sure yeah SC2 sure killed the vibrant and alive foreigner BW scene that existed, everyone white guy switched to sc2 because it was clearly a better game hahaha. And man, SC2 is so sucessful in Korea, it totally took over from BW, invading the PC Bangs and taking all the fans away from watching BW!
SC2 didn't kill anything. It hasn't been that successful in Korea yet and it most certainly hasn't invaded the PC Bangs. I don't know what the hell you're talking about, lmao.
BW never was as big as you think. Korea was a lot more niche than most foreigners thought and it was definitely a niche in foreign community. Not like SC2.
That that, It was an amazing game the only bad thing was the absolutely grueling amount of time and effort required to keep up at pro level, not healthy at all.
On May 03 2012 21:56 Klonere wrote: As for SC2 KILLED BW ESPORTS IS STUPID WAH, sure yeah SC2 sure killed the vibrant and alive foreigner BW scene that existed, everyone white guy switched to sc2 because it was clearly a better game hahaha. And man, SC2 is so sucessful in Korea, it totally took over from BW, invading the PC Bangs and taking all the fans away from watching BW!
On May 03 2012 21:56 Klonere wrote: As for SC2 KILLED BW ESPORTS IS STUPID WAH, sure yeah SC2 sure killed the vibrant and alive foreigner BW scene that existed, everyone white guy switched to sc2 because it was clearly a better game hahaha. And man, SC2 is so sucessful in Korea, it totally took over from BW, invading the PC Bangs and taking all the fans away from watching BW!
hahahahaha
alright.
My entire post is drenched in sarcasm, how could you not tell?
Its ok though, one really shouldn't use sarcasm over the internet ~.~
On May 04 2012 01:12 Pure-SC2 wrote: Esports saved BW for over 10 years. That is unheard of in the history of competitive gaming.
Thank you Korea and the desire to play computer games competitively.
I think you mean, "BW saved 'esports'."
Esports is older than BW.
I played Jedi Knight Dark Forces 2 competitively back in 1997. I got to number 6 on cases 1v1 ladder and that was esports to me. I lived it and I loved it. There were top teams (the infamous KRT who dominated the game early on). There were no sponsors, there were less people, but that didn't mean it wasn't Esports.
So no, BW didn't save Esports, Esports has been around as long as two people could compete against each other in a video game. Esports has grown into something much bigger and varied, there is more money involved and more people involved and BW and the Korean scene was a huge part of that. As is SC2.
On May 04 2012 01:12 Pure-SC2 wrote: Esports saved BW for over 10 years. That is unheard of in the history of competitive gaming.
Thank you Korea and the desire to play computer games competitively.
I think you mean, "BW saved 'esports'."
Esports is older than BW.
I played Jedi Knight Dark Forces 2 competitively back in 1997. I got to number 6 on cases 1v1 ladder and that was esports to me. I lived it and I loved it. There were top teams (the infamous KRT who dominated the game early on). There were no sponsors, there were less people, but that didn't mean it wasn't Esports.
So no, BW didn't save Esports, Esports has been around as long as two people could compete against each other in a video game. Esports has grown into something much bigger and varied, there is more money involved and more people involved and BW and the Korean scene was a huge part of that. As is SC2.
Don't know but what you just said wasn't enough to say that bw didn't save e-sports and such. Nobody took e-sports as serious as the koreans did, these pro gamers are actually considered to be working class people and they have accessed to tax cut,health and other privileges a normal working class will normally receive.
wait the fans are ESPORTS? and I am pretty sure it is obvious that BW survived because of the fans, or even better: The purpose of ESPORTS is to entertain the fans.
On June 15 2012 17:48 SometimesIworkout wrote: why didn't we save the typewriter man... fuck the computer
Type writer is old school man I miss it a lot and in the meanwhile since you wrote nothing to do with the topic and being ironic at the same time here is a cool music .Castlevania style
EPT
