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Active: 655 users

Ethics: Turning the Trolley - Page 2

Blogs > omgimonfire15
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netherh
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom333 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 13:59:22
May 02 2012 13:58 GMT
#21
On May 02 2012 10:00 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Show nested quote +
These aren't "interesting moral questions" at all.

They're highly contrived and unrealistic situations, in which your decision would be based on factors not present in the information provided.


Of course they are unrealistic, the point isn't to establish rules on what to do if these scenarios arise. They are an evaluation of one's morals and priorities. Do you think the needs of the many outweigh the few, even if the few are going to die? What if you personally kill them? Do you find the killing of someone worse than allowing them to die? Do you believe you are obligated to give your life for others or do you believe that you are entitled to your life?

As pointed out before, the concept of letting die vs killing can be related to euthanasia. Is withholding someones medicine the same as overdosing a patient on morphine? In one scenario you can argue you did not directly kill someone. In the other, you are actively taking someones life.



They're not an evaluation of morals or priorities, because they're so ridiculously contrived. The following is pretty much how your examples go:

You own a gun.

No... I don't.

You decide to kill some people with it.

What? No. I would never own a gun, or kill people with it.

Do you want to kill 1 person, or 5 people?

What? This just... No.

Ok. How about this? Do you want to kill 5 people over here, or 5 people over there?

...


Your last paragraph contains slightly more realistic examples. But you still don't actually give enough information to decide anything. Is the person withholding medicine / od-ing a doctor? Are they acting on the patient's wishes or not?

Obviously if it's your job to treat a patient (and perhaps also if not), and you "withhold medicine" that could help them, and that they want, you're culpable for their death. If the patient decides to stop receiving medicine, it's their choice, not yours. This can't really be compared to the second example at all.

In the second example, are you acting on their wishes, and have they considered every option? If so, then I would argue that it's their choice to die. It's your choice whether you help them die or not - which is a matter of deciding how that will affect you, and has very little to do with the person dying.

As for the people's choices, and how society will judge them, that's all specific to the individual circumstances - which makes it silly to use examples like this in the first place. I'm sure there are real examples (and probably court cases) that could be used instead.
PassionFruit
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
294 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 14:08:38
May 02 2012 14:07 GMT
#22
I believe it's called a thought experiment. It's not supposed to be realistic. It's intended to hold ALL other factors constant except for the crux of the ethical question at hand. On the trolley problem you know 100% the outcome of your decision, you only have two choices, and all people have equal value. Is this realistic? No. But that shouldn't be a problem in discussing the ethical dilemma. Actually, it gives you a more concrete foundation for argument since you can't weasel your way around the issue by saying "what if" or "maybe."
adun12345
Profile Joined May 2011
United States198 Posts
May 02 2012 20:12 GMT
#23
I think PassionFruit hits on a major point why many people have difficulty with ethical thought experiments. As PassionFruit notes, the purpose of the thought experiment is to provide the participants with all of the relevant information to make their choice. This helps us move past all of the irrelevant details that might be involved in the case, to see how the relevant factors impact our decisions.

The problem emerges, however, when we attempt to determine what constitutes "relevant" information for making an ethical choice. At the start of any thought experiment, the person framing the experiment must determine what information is to be conveyed as relevant. By determining what information is relevant and what is not, the person constructing the thought experiment inevitably prejudices the outcome of the experiment. Although a well-constructed thought experiment can still yield interesting results, as an abstraction of reality it will always at least partially reflect the subjective influence of the abstract-er who proposed the experiment.
QueenElissa
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada33 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 20:40:00
May 02 2012 20:39 GMT
#24
I sort of see it in this way... If you have 5 person that needs organs, one a liver, one a heart etc.., would you kill a healthy human being because you have 5 person that will die unless the each have one of his organ..?

I wouden't kill him...
Not here for the Fame, Just for the Game!!
SaintBadger
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States139 Posts
May 02 2012 20:45 GMT
#25
I think I missed something here. What's the significance of the split between the choices "kill self" and "kill yourself"?
netherh
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom333 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 21:39:14
May 02 2012 21:31 GMT
#26
On May 02 2012 23:07 PassionFruit wrote:
I believe it's called a thought experiment. It's not supposed to be realistic. It's intended to hold ALL other factors constant except for the crux of the ethical question at hand. On the trolley problem you know 100% the outcome of your decision, you only have two choices, and all people have equal value. Is this realistic? No. But that shouldn't be a problem in discussing the ethical dilemma. Actually, it gives you a more concrete foundation for argument since you can't weasel your way around the issue by saying "what if" or "maybe."


Why shouldn't lack of realism be a problem with discussing the "ethical dilemma"? If detail is fundamental in making a decision, then you should include it.

I know I would have a vast number of questions about the trolley scenario before I could make an actual decision. And I bet the answers would generally be "that doesn't matter", or "it just is, ok", when to me it obviously does matter. If you want someone to make an informed decision give them the damn details instead of hiding behind some "thought experiment" in which you pretend that all other things are equal.
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