Hi, since you're on TL, I'll assume you're a reasonably smart person, probably not the kind of person who hears about evolution and thinks "hurr durr why are monekys still around?"
I consider myself to be one of those reasonably smart people, I appreciate science, technology, and the better life they've given us. I also appreciate artists who can think deeply and deliver important messages in their music. Then there are times when you discover that those deep artists had a "hurr durr" streak to them all along and you start going ಠ_ಠ at certain songs.
This is one of those songs:
The chorus is a sample from the song "Sabali" (meaning Patience) by Mamadou and Mariam. Its meaning goes something like "patience, patience, patience is everything / Patience, patience, patience is good / When you love someone." I'm like, damn, that is cool, a rap emphasizing a moderate value, not talking about guns, bitches and ho's.
Then the first verse hits:
Some of the smartest dummies Can’t read the language of Egyptian mummies ... And the scientist still can’t explain the pyramids, huh ... You buy a khaki pants And all of a sudden you say a Indiana Jones An’ a thief out gold and thief out the scrolls and even the buried bones Some of the worst paparazzis I’ve ever seen and I ever known Put the worst on display so the world can see And that’s all they will ever show So the ones in the west Will never move east And feel like they could be at home
Holy shit there's a lot going on there. Damian Marley obviously has some ideas about Egyptology, anthropology, and sociology, and he's extrapolated some conclusions from there. Some of those conclusions seem to resonate with the real world, with how Westerners typically perceive Africa and the rest of the world, but let's look back to the beginning:
Some of the smartest dummies Can’t read the language of Egyptian mummies ... And the scientist still can’t explain the pyramids, huh
one more section: ... Scholars teach in Universities and claim that they’re smart and cunning Tell them find a cure when we sneeze and that’s when their nose start running
What? That's not how science works, that's not what we've learned about Egypt. Fuck. Normally I can handle suspension of disbelief when I listen to most of my music. I can treat Viking metal as being about fiction, I can treat Eminem's raps as ironic or tongue-in-cheek. But then something this anti-intellectual comes out of left field, blindsides me, 6pools me, cannon rushes me, proxy raxes me. What the fuck is going on here? Granted, when artists make a song to advocate something, when they put seemingly deep personal beliefs into their music, it's not going to be to everyone's taste, but typically they choose something that a lot of people can empathize with. Maybe it's just me, but I can't handle this level of ignorance anti-intellectualism in my music.
And on top of that, goddamn, it breaks my heart because the rest of the song and its lyrics actually go against this attitude, they encourage thought and point out the irony and tragedies of our society and daily lives. That's some good shit to deliver through a rap:
It’s crazy when you feed people the truth you don’t know how they’re gonna react. You’re scared of wrong doers, people that just ignorant, You’re scared of the truth, be patient for now. ... What’s hue? what’s man? what’s human? Anything along the land we consuming Eatin’, deletin’, ruin Trying to get paper Gotta have land, gotta have acres So I can sit back like Jack Nicholson Watch n-ggas play the game like the lakers In a world full of 52 fakers ... Sometimes it’s like ‘pardon me, but I got a real big spirit’ I’m fearless…. I’m fearless Don’t you try and grab hold of my soul It’s like a military soldier since seven years old I held real dead bodies in my arms Felt their body turn cold, oh Why we born in the first place If this is how we gotta go? Damn.
Damn indeed. Are they just playing the ignorant fools? Have we been indoctrinated?
"You’re scared of wrong doers, people that just ignorant, you’re scared of the truth, be patient for now."
Is that all those ignorant statements were getting at, proving a point about our expectations, that we'll dismiss what we don't want to hear when it doesn't line up with our idea of the world? I don't know man, all I know is that when rappers perpetuate misconceptions about the world, about science, about values, and about knowledge, it kills me a little bit inside.
EDIT: Actually, in light of the below song, I guess it doesn't really kill me inside when I hear bad rap, it's just bad rap. There's bad music in every genre, whatever, we deal with it. But I guess what bothered me about Patience is that even though it seems like it was made to have some meaning, it started sabotaging itself (IMO) from the beginning. So I guess what kills me a little bit inside is when rappers who seem like they know better make music that doesn't. ---------- Extra, other songs that kill me inside. + Show Spoiler +
"Oh yeah, lets be irresponsible with our money and our lives. It's ok cuz we're still looking fashionable and attractive right?"
"Ain't got no job, but I stay sharp Can't pay my rent, cause all my money's spent but thats OK, cause I'm still fly got a quarter tank gas in my new E-class But that's alright cause I'm gon' ride got everything in my moma's name but I'm hood rich da dada dada da"
Ey wassup plehboi, It's bird man plehboi brrrr yaddamean? Wha chu kno bout dat hood rich stuntin all dey plehboi. We still fly is classic track, big tymers ya heard? Brrrrrr
I think the part I hate most about rap music is the righteous indignation and thought that somehow their lyrics are deep and that if you don't find any meaning to them the rapper then thinks he's even smarter.
Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
On April 25 2012 07:44 Roe wrote: I think the part I hate most about rap music is the righteous indignation and thought that somehow their lyrics are deep and that if you don't find any meaning to them the rapper then thinks he's even smarter.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
On April 25 2012 07:44 Roe wrote: I think the part I hate most about rap music is the righteous indignation and thought that somehow their lyrics are deep and that if you don't find any meaning to them the rapper then thinks he's even smarter.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
On April 25 2012 07:44 Roe wrote: I think the part I hate most about rap music is the righteous indignation and thought that somehow their lyrics are deep and that if you don't find any meaning to them the rapper then thinks he's even smarter.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
Rap being used to tell a tragic story. What are you going to hate on now?
I'd like to know some more about rap so could you recommened me something that actually has a meaning besides sex? Oh and I'd like the rapper to be in the rythm all the time, if possible.
On April 25 2012 07:44 Roe wrote: I think the part I hate most about rap music is the righteous indignation and thought that somehow their lyrics are deep and that if you don't find any meaning to them the rapper then thinks he's even smarter.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
try listening to real rap
Yea, those are obviously just ignorant comments. There's good and bad rap just like any other genre. And I don't think most people(at least ones I know) think all rap has some deep meaning. Snoop sings about smoking weed and most of his songs don't have any deeper meaning then that, and I don't think it really has to. But if you want that, artists like Nas and Outkast(and others, plus a lot of other less-mainstream artists as well) have a lot of tracks that are a lot more than 'get money, fuck bitches'.
On April 25 2012 07:44 Roe wrote: I think the part I hate most about rap music is the righteous indignation and thought that somehow their lyrics are deep and that if you don't find any meaning to them the rapper then thinks he's even smarter.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
Rap being used to tell a tragic story. What are you going to hate on now?
If you have 8+ minutes to spare you gotta check out Sadistik. Lyrics are in the video but I'm going to post the last verse here since it's my favorite. =)
Even though I've never called it perfect/ When I die, I want to know it all was worth it/ I want to know that I tried my best with/ Embracing every moment that I was blessed with/ Every life, every death, every time that I wept/ Every moment, every person, every line that I said/ Every night, every day, every time every place/ Every kiss, every wish, every side of the maze/ Every cut, every bruise, every love that I'd lose/ Every time that I broke and the times that I grew/ Every drop of rain that these clouds would spew/ To help form the man that I amounted to/ And I'm thankful, that I am who I am/ And I've been where I've been and I came out grateful/ When it's finally time to make an exit/ Just know, that I don't regret a single second/
On April 25 2012 07:44 Roe wrote: I think the part I hate most about rap music is the righteous indignation and thought that somehow their lyrics are deep and that if you don't find any meaning to them the rapper then thinks he's even smarter.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
try listening to real rap
Yea, those are obviously just ignorant comments. There's good and bad rap just like any other genre. And I don't think most people(at least ones I know) think all rap has some deep meaning. Snoop sings about smoking weed and most of his songs don't have any deeper meaning then that, and I don't think it really has to. But if you want that, artists like Nas and Outkast(and others, plus a lot of other less-mainstream artists as well) have a lot of tracks that are a lot more than 'get money, fuck bitches'.
I never said that's how all rap is, I just hate the types of kids that act that way.
Some artists think their voice counts because they are famous and start spouting really dumb shit. This can be in a song but also on TV or whatever (I'm currently thinking about Kanye West for those wondering). Don't try to find a deeper meaning to a song if there isn't any. There's no shame in liking a song that has lyrics that go beyond all reasonable limits of stupidity.
A lot of times they're not going for that sort of lyrical sense-making that would be more typical of other music genres. They mean to use the voice as an instrument rather than a conveyer of meaning. I don't think it's the best strat but then again I'm not a rapper.
On April 25 2012 10:51 B.I.G. wrote: Some artists think their voice counts because they are famous and start spouting really dumb shit. This can be in a song but also on TV or whatever (I'm currently thinking about Kanye West for those wondering). Don't try to find a deeper meaning to a song if there isn't any. There's no shame in liking a song that has lyrics that go beyond all reasonable limits of stupidity.
I kinda disagree with kanye.. alot of his raps have alot of meaning :l hes actually one of my most favorite rappers his lyrics are intriguing but the way he raps it makes it very... rhythmic?
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
I feel like that's a pretty narrow-minded thing to say..
You just have to get a taste for it--learn how to listen to it. It's tricky but once you get it, alot of rap gets alot better. You get alot of newfound respect for it.
I agree OP tha song is bad, I only listen to real musicians who write songs that speak to my soul.
Example 1:
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
Could respond to how wrong you are here but you're banned so I guess that doesn't matter.
On a serious note OP, you should know rap/hip-hop and all its subgenres can target different listeners, and obviously not all lyrics should be interpreted for deep meaning when none is there (as in still fly). Patience is def not one of my favorites on that album, but I still enjoyed all the songs for the most part (and their live show was sick too, lots of emotion from them). The fact that you even read the lyrics and tried to get something out of Still Fly is funny. Also I feel like you cut too much of the lyrics out of Patience and changed the meaning as a whole.
On April 25 2012 09:10 DomiNater wrote: [vid & lyrics]
On a serious note OP, you should know rap/hip-hop and all its subgenres can target different listeners, and obviously not all lyrics should be interpreted for deep meaning when none is there (as in still fly). Patience is def not one of my favorites on that album, but I still enjoyed all the songs for the most part (and their live show was sick too, lots of emotion from them). The fact that you even read the lyrics and tried to get something out of Still Fly is funny. Also I feel like you cut too much of the lyrics out of Patience and changed the meaning as a whole.
On April 25 2012 09:10 DomiNater wrote: [vid & lyrics]
Goddamn this was SICK, will def check out more :D
So, what exactly are you saying about Patience and trying to find meaning? I love that song too, and I love the album, you can tell it was all meant to have meaning, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Now, as far as meaning and where it's supposed to be or not, I think any art we consume has an effect on us, whether it was intended or not. When people hear shit like "Still Fly" they are implicitly going along with the idea that black people (or a subset of them, depending on how open-minded the listener is) act like that. The chorus and the rest of the verses are lazy as fuck, but they're still saying something. Words don't just disappear when you put them on a page or sing them regardless of what they are - someone is still reading or hearing them, and they're having an effect.
EDIT: Updated the OP in light of your comment though.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
Most ignorant thing I have ever read on this site. And I've been here for along time.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
Most ignorant thing I have ever read on this site. And I've been here for along time.
???
If "in general" is similar to "what you hear on the radio", it is not an inaccurate characterization. Though maybe I'm missing some of the finer delineations between rap and hip-hop.
Like, there's a reason rap is often associated with promoting objectifying women, drug use, and social ills, and its not cause everyone is a prejudiced hater.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
Most ignorant thing I have ever read on this site. And I've been here for along time.
???
If "in general" is similar to "what you hear on the radio", it is not an inaccurate characterization. Though maybe I'm missing some of the finer delineations between rap and hip-hop.
I don't see how "in general" means "radio only". Those are not related at all.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
Most ignorant thing I have ever read on this site. And I've been here for along time.
???
If "in general" is similar to "what you hear on the radio", it is not an inaccurate characterization. Though maybe I'm missing some of the finer delineations between rap and hip-hop.
I don't see how "in general" means "radio only". Those are not related at all.
Guy got perma banned anyway, likely a troll.
It does equate to what people that are not rap enthusiasts normally would hear, and thus form their judgments of rap music on.
sure the song may have been illogical but if it really grinds your gears that much then that's your problem. in my opinion hip-hop is much more than lyrics.
if every word in rap has to be analysed and taken apart then you're not gonna appreciate the genre. i'm not saying the words shouldn't carry weight, but you're better off reading an essay or hearing a story than listening to hip-hop.
hip-hop for me is about the general feel of the genre. i love how the drums kick in over a good beat and you don't even notice but ur head starts bopping. you listen to the song and when someone says something clever you go "oooooh shit", but you don't ask yourself why his lyrics don't make sense at times.
for me i would criticize a hip-hop song if for example the mc's flow wasn't to my liking, the beat wasn't genuine enough (i'm a firm believer of sampling or real instruments in hip-hop), and finally if the lyrics in the song didn't make sense. i would not criticize a song for praising religion or possessing views i don't agree with.
of course this is your own blog. just chiming in with what i think is hip hop is about and why i don't necessarily agree with your view on the genre.
oh and i will never post a video of a song i believe is true hip-hop because "real hip-hop" doesn't exist.
On April 25 2012 13:50 shawster wrote: sure the song may have been illogical but if it really grinds your gears that much then that's your problem. in my opinion hip-hop is much more than lyrics.
if every word in rap has to be analysed and taken apart then you're not gonna appreciate the genre. i'm not saying the words shouldn't carry weight, but you're better off reading an essay or hearing a story than listening to hip-hop.
hip-hop for me is about the general feel of the genre. i love how the drums kick in over a good beat and you don't even notice but ur head starts bopping. you listen to the song and when someone says something clever you go "oooooh shit", but you don't ask yourself why his lyrics don't make sense at times.
for me i would criticize a hip-hop song if for example the mc's flow wasn't to my liking, the beat wasn't genuine enough (i'm a firm believer of sampling or real instruments in hip-hop), and finally if the lyrics in the song didn't make sense. i would not criticize a song for praising religion or possessing views i don't agree with.
of course this is your own blog. just chiming in with what i think is hip hop is about and why i don't necessarily agree with your view on the genre.
oh and i will never post a video of a song i believe is true hip-hop because "real hip-hop" doesn't exist.
Hip-hop is the music to the rap, and much like poetry people are free to criticize the shit out of a rap. Granted, you do it within context. Because of the delivery you can't expect every line to be pristine, but as a form of public speaking and of writing, rap carries ideas, and I disagree with some of the ideas in that song. I understand where you're coming from, where you value the musical and rhyming aspect over the content, but let me ask you a question, if I gave you a neo nazi themed hip-hop song with a catchy beat and everything else you enjoy about music, would you listen to it? You probably wouldn't listen to it, but you definitely wouldn't blast it or play it to most of your friends.
Whether you think so or not, ideas (the content I'm criticizing) still play a big role.
Also, I never said the videos were "real" hip-hop (my outkast link), I said it's a good rap.
On April 25 2012 13:50 shawster wrote: sure the song may have been illogical but if it really grinds your gears that much then that's your problem. in my opinion hip-hop is much more than lyrics.
if every word in rap has to be analysed and taken apart then you're not gonna appreciate the genre. i'm not saying the words shouldn't carry weight, but you're better off reading an essay or hearing a story than listening to hip-hop.
hip-hop for me is about the general feel of the genre. i love how the drums kick in over a good beat and you don't even notice but ur head starts bopping. you listen to the song and when someone says something clever you go "oooooh shit", but you don't ask yourself why his lyrics don't make sense at times.
for me i would criticize a hip-hop song if for example the mc's flow wasn't to my liking, the beat wasn't genuine enough (i'm a firm believer of sampling or real instruments in hip-hop), and finally if the lyrics in the song didn't make sense. i would not criticize a song for praising religion or possessing views i don't agree with.
of course this is your own blog. just chiming in with what i think is hip hop is about and why i don't necessarily agree with your view on the genre.
oh and i will never post a video of a song i believe is true hip-hop because "real hip-hop" doesn't exist.
Hip-hop is the music to the rap, and much like poetry people are free to criticize the shit out of a rap. Granted, you do it within context. Because of the delivery you can't expect every line to be pristine, but as a form of public speaking and of writing, rap carries ideas, and I disagree with some of the ideas in that song. I understand where you're coming from, where you value the musical and rhyming aspect over the content, but let me ask you a question, if I gave you a neo nazi themed hip-hop song with a catchy beat and everything else you enjoy about music, would you listen to it? You probably wouldn't listen to it, but you definitely wouldn't blast it or play it to most of your friends.
Whether you think so or not, ideas (the content I'm criticizing) still play a big role.
Also, I never said the videos were "real" hip-hop (my outkast link), I said it's a good rap.
i never said that ideas don't matter, and ur case about the neo nazi themed hip-hop song is a blatant strawman. of course lideas matter... i'm saying that you're over analysing lyrics. i don't agree with the theme of the neo-nazi song AND there is no way the song would make sense, as i stated earlier. and by make sense i mean ... isn't retarded. i dont' feel like explaining what isn't retarded classifies as but you get the point
i don't mind the criticizing of the lyrics too much, i just think that it shows that you're over emphasizing lyrics. like for example just because the chorus of the song is about patience doesn't mean you should give it special props for not being about hoes and bitches.
i try to find a balance between listening to the idea / what the artist's message is and just listening to the music without looking for meaning. this helps me listen to a lot more kinds of hip-hop. it's why i love hip-hop instrumentals as well.
for example in atcq - electric relaxation the song's about sex/love/women and theres some clever wordplay thrown inside without a real message. would you enjoy that song? i honestly don't know, because i'm not you, but i certainly do because i just love the sample and the beat in general. i can also enjoy something like I used to Love HER by Common while appreciating the message that he sends.
and the comment about real hip-hop is to the other people posting, not u.
<3 stupid rap, LOL JK, its probably the only thing that can be so obscene and so bad yet can be so lyrical, when its good, its like poetry, when its bad... ITS REALLY BAD.
On April 25 2012 10:51 B.I.G. wrote: Some artists think their voice counts because they are famous and start spouting really dumb shit. This can be in a song but also on TV or whatever (I'm currently thinking about Kanye West for those wondering). Don't try to find a deeper meaning to a song if there isn't any. There's no shame in liking a song that has lyrics that go beyond all reasonable limits of stupidity.
I kinda disagree with kanye.. alot of his raps have alot of meaning :l hes actually one of my most favorite rappers his lyrics are intriguing but the way he raps it makes it very... rhythmic?
im not sure if i did the embedding right.. this is heard em say by kanye west one my msot favorite songs..
edit: i give up trying ot embed i have no idea how to do it -_-
If I recall correctly the song you mentioned is the one where he says "I know the government adminster AIDS". Thats a bit of an "oh you silly Kanye" lyric if you ask me...
On April 25 2012 07:44 Roe wrote: I think the part I hate most about rap music is the righteous indignation and thought that somehow their lyrics are deep and that if you don't find any meaning to them the rapper then thinks he's even smarter.
On April 25 2012 07:45 DeceiverSC2 wrote: Rap in general is just shitty music, that talks about nothing relevant or makes a silly attempt to talk about something relevant and ends up looking more retarded than before.
Rap being used to tell a tragic story. What are you going to hate on now?
I'd like to know some more about rap so could you recommened me something that actually has a meaning besides sex? Oh and I'd like the rapper to be in the rythm all the time, if possible.
I'm sorry, but you know what grinds my gears? People who go "RAP SUCKS SO MUCH OH MY GOD ALL THEY TALK ABOUT IS WOMEN AND SEX AND STUFF." Look, I'm not a fan of rap. I listen to Bela Fleck, Marcus Miller, Gojira, and System of a Down. I get around. But let's be honest here, old and modern Rock of all kinds has massive undertones of sex, degrading women, and being "against the man" in very similar ways to rap. This whole stereotype is so fucking hypocritical from fans of any form of rock or metal, it blows me away how anyone can use it.
Yes, a lot of rap is obnoxiously stupid. I don't deny that, I also generally dislike the synthetic beats and poor rhyming schemes. However, going "rap sucks because all they talk about is sex/women/hating cops/etc." is just silly, unless you condemn most other modern forms of music similarly.
EDIT: Also, there's plenty of songs (both classical, rock, metal, etc.) that break rhythm and timing in very similar ways to rap -- it's just far more noticeable, and far worse sounding in rap. But I agree with that final point.
EPT
