|
had a fight with my boss.
Not a regular fight when you argue about random shit, but something serious. Basically, we have different views on how the project should be done. Not gonna go into details. I'm willing to stand my ground, if he wants to fire me then its ok. I don't have any plan B, and didn't look for another job, and I'm not sure if I will find another suitable job anytime soon.
The issue is not that serious, but I've always been kinda 'Ok I will do as you wish' guy. But this one is too far over the line, and I don't like it.
So, I want to know what community thinks. How do you act in this kind of situations? Maybe some of you are bosses already, what do you do in these situations? What would you suggest?
 
|
It's completely fine to be stubborn and stand your ground, as long as you're right in the end. Even if you're wrong a good boss will use it as an opportunity to teach you. In any case being stubborn enough to fight for doing the project the right way even in the face of risk shows that you care, which a good boss will appreciate even if they don't show it.
|
Some people say that there are no mistakes, as long as you learn from your experiences-- and that learning may pay off in this lifetime or next? Who knows?
No one can really say how this will turn out, every person is unique and everyone deals with situations differently. There is a chance that the fact you stood up to your boss will make him back off, and there's a chance that he will take his power and smite you..
|
I see you're from Singapore. Well... I've worked with businessmen from Singapore. They tend to look out for number one, and if they can get away with something dirty they do it. If this is one of those things, an ethical quandry, I sympathize, it's a difficult position. Maybe I've only had to deal with the rotten eggs and maybe a higher up will value your character, but basically the impression I've gotten is that ethics won't earn you any promotions in Singapore.
There's no right answer here, it all depends on what your company is like, if your boss is a good or a bad boss and if you standing your ground will improve the project noticeably.
|
Your are being to ambiguous. It's like a guy comes onto a forum and says "hey guys I just killed this guy, is this okay?" and all people goes "Hell no, what is wrong with you, hope you get to jail" then it turns out that the guy was kidnapped, sat in a box for 1 week and was tortured for 5 months before by a mistake the guy got free and had to kill the assailant since he had a gun stored in the house and would had shot him while escaping if he would had let him live.
|
On March 30 2012 17:14 Integra wrote:
Your are being to ambiguous. It's like a guy comes onto a forum and says "hey guys I just killed this guy, is this okay?" and all people goes "Hell no, what is wrong with you, hope you get to jail" then it turns out that the guy was kidnapped, sat in a box for 1 week and was tortured for 5 months before by a mistake the guy got free and had to kill the assailant since he had a gun stored in the house and would had shot him while escaping if he would had let him live.
I'll try to explain my situation in short. We have a contract with a company who are developing a system X for us. The system X connects to other bunch of systems of our company. Majority of the project is done, and we're going to finish the project soon. Problems:
1) The company we have contract with have only two qualified developers who are doing this project, and they're in tight schedule. Our system administrator has to take over the project after its done. but now, he doesn't have idea how it works. Boss wants him to work with system X in development phase, so that after the project finishes he had total understanding of everything. I tell my boss we shouldn't distract developers, or we gonna fail to deliver the project in time (which is very important since we're a government institution). Developers are totally against it, we already tried and its slowing down the project pretty badly. Besides, after project finishes, we have two weeks of training according to the contract.
2) two systems of our company have technical problems, they're not ready to connect to our system X. But they're already resolving the issues. I have general idea what the problems are and how/when they're going to be fixed.
Boss wants me to be incontrol of these problems and every specific details. I have no idea how those systems work and don't have any skills to help them. I've already asked them if can I help, they told me I can't by any means. If I interfere I'll just slow them down. Boss keeps on harassing me about that system, although its perfectly clear I can't do anything about it.
|
Boss wants me to be incontrol
I see. That's a very tough request. I'm not sure if I were able to comply either.
|
sometimes it's right, sometimes you just have to say fuck it and watch others drive the project into a wall.
don't think anyone can say what will happen, but I think AcrossFiveJulys said it well, a good boss will discuss it with
you and will not see it as a personal attack but as a part of the whole project.
good luck to you
|
Here's how I view these things... He's the boss. You explain your feelings/opinion of the situation (in a calm rational way - maybe even write up an alternative plan for him to "consider" this weekend... If that doesn't change his mind: "He's the boss".
If you want to fight him, you need to be able to go over his head. Your boss has a boss right? Take your well written report/plan to him and let him know how you feel. (Be aware that this is likely to put you in a very tough/awkward position).
That being said, I've had bosses that looked at my proposal and said "how dare you question me?" I started looking for a new job as soon as my shift was over!
|
Well Singapore has 2% unemployment, right? So there are plenty of opportunities for work, and no need to waste life in an uncomfortable situation, right?
|
On March 30 2012 18:53 storkfan wrote:
Well Singapore has 2% unemployment, right? So there are plenty of opportunities for work, and no need to waste life in an uncomfortable situation, right?
This is not a very helpful comment at all -.-"
I suggest what you do what the poster a few above said... Try and calmly relay your feelings to your boss. If he still refuses, then just go along with what he says. He will be the captain of the Titanic, not you. Furthermore, because he is said captain, it's his call how things will be done - he's responsible for the project as a whole, so he should be the one to call the shots.
|
Well, this all comes down to how you rate your boss. Is he the good boss who will take the heat if shits hits the fan and be accountable for his own decision or is he the scum that just wants to climb the ladder?
The former understands that people don't always agree with them and he has the right to chose the path because he is in a higher position of authority but he will be there to fix shits and answer tough questions when the blame comes. The latter will always try to pin some one as the fall guy.
From your description, I would recommend caution, people are not stupid, you probably already explained your use and skills in relevance of the project, don't assume for a second that he doesn't understand that. He probably senses risks and want to pin some one because he also doesn't know how to contribute but he is the one who is going to accountable in the end if the project fails.
Either that or he is the just micro managing type who likes to have visibilities on things, in that case, you really should jump ship before the stress makes you quit lol... from experience, a lot of Singaporeans are like that.
|
On March 30 2012 19:24 haduken wrote:
Well, this all comes down to how you rate your boss. Is he the good boss who will take the heat if shits hits the fan and be accountable for his own decision or is he the scum that just wants to climb the ladder?
The former understands that people don't always agree with them and he has the right to chose the path because he is in a higher position of authority but he will be there to fix shits and answer tough questions when the blame comes. The latter will always try to pin some one as the fall guy.
From your description, I would recommend caution, people are not stupid, you probably already explained your use and skills in relevance of the project, don't assume for a second that he doesn't understand that. He probably senses risks and want to pin some one because he also doesn't know how to contribute but he is the one who is going to accountable in the end if the project fails.
Either that or he is the just micro managing type who likes to have visibilities on things, in that case, you really should jump ship before the stress makes you quit lol... from experience, a lot of Singaporeans are like that.
That's exactly what I'm thinking.
1) he is the type who wants to climb the ladder, mostly tries to impress the crowd, but when we are alone he talks like a nice person.
2) he constantly gives random orders (sometimes totally unnecessary) to remind everyone who is the boss.
3) he does a lot of mistakes but generally gives impression of active and caring worker. Therefore everyone from the top thinks he is a good boss. He might be a good boss, but he has obvious flaws which makes working with him very difficult. Almost all people in our department complain about him.
I myself don't think I could be boss or substitute him, because I'm too shy and my morality always takes over.
I think I just need to find my courage and move on. Need to find another job.
|
Boss wants him to work with system X in development phase, so that after the project finishes he had total understanding of everything.
looooooooooooool That never works, ever. You just annoy the development team and or the slow it down massively if they actually have to make the person understand.
|
Trust. Your little skirmish situation happens all the time in many people's lives. But trust. In the end, he is your boss; it is his call. Maybe in the end you can say "see, I told you so."
|
On March 30 2012 20:50 Count9 wrote:
looooooooooooool That never works, ever. You just annoy the development team and or the slow it down massively if they actually have to make the person understand.
Man, don't go overboard. It's a tradeoff, right? Yes it might slow down the schedule, but not involving the people who are going to be using a system is a good way to make something unusable.
To the OP: Unless you're willing to quit over this, you are not in a position to say no to specific instructions from your superiors, reasonable or not. If you make your concerns clear and they're disregarded, you're stuck with it. If it's an ethical or legal problem, that can be different, but it doesn't sound like that.
On March 30 2012 16:41 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
It's completely fine to be stubborn and stand your ground, as long as you're right in the end. Even if you're wrong a good boss will use it as an opportunity to teach you. In any case being stubborn enough to fight for doing the project the right way even in the face of risk shows that you care, which a good boss will appreciate even if they don't show it.
Absolutely untrue. That's a good way to be marked as someone who is hard to work with and given poor reviews or fired. The right way to handle such situations is to make the best possible case for what should be done and then follow instructions if told to do something else. If the boss is mistaken and won't listen to reason, being stubborn won't fix that, and there's also the very real possibility they know more than you do.
|
On March 30 2012 16:30 bokeevboke wrote:
had a fight with my boss.
Not a regular fight when you argue about random shit, but something serious. Basically, we have different views on how the project should be done. Not gonna go into details. I'm willing to stand my ground, if he wants to fire me then its ok. I don't have any plan B, and didn't look for another job, and I'm not sure if I will find another suitable job anytime soon.
The issue is not that serious, but I've always been kinda 'Ok I will do as you wish' guy. But this one is too far over the line, and I don't like it.
So, I want to know what community thinks. How do you act in this kind of situations? Maybe some of you are bosses already, what do you do in these situations? What would you suggest?
Well, since he is the boss then he is a more valuable asset to the company compared to you. You have every right, and you should, voice your opinion, but you should never get into a fight with your superior in a workplace, no matter what reason. In the end, he is responsible and he has last word because he is worth more to the company than you are and you are nothing more than a resource to use to accomplish certain goals, if there is any argument then it will always be the conclusion that he told you to do something and you didn't listen to your superior hence you can by law(at least in sweden) be fired instantly.
|
Ummmm, no you can't be insubordinate.... period. Only times it's really acceptable to refuse your boss is if it is unsafe physically or mentally. If it's just a direction you don't agree with then suck it up. He pays you, to do what he wants. He's your boss not your friend. It's kind of hard to comment without any information by the way.
|
On March 30 2012 19:43 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 19:24 haduken wrote:
Well, this all comes down to how you rate your boss. Is he the good boss who will take the heat if shits hits the fan and be accountable for his own decision or is he the scum that just wants to climb the ladder?
The former understands that people don't always agree with them and he has the right to chose the path because he is in a higher position of authority but he will be there to fix shits and answer tough questions when the blame comes. The latter will always try to pin some one as the fall guy.
From your description, I would recommend caution, people are not stupid, you probably already explained your use and skills in relevance of the project, don't assume for a second that he doesn't understand that. He probably senses risks and want to pin some one because he also doesn't know how to contribute but he is the one who is going to accountable in the end if the project fails.
Either that or he is the just micro managing type who likes to have visibilities on things, in that case, you really should jump ship before the stress makes you quit lol... from experience, a lot of Singaporeans are like that. That's exactly what I'm thinking. 1) he is the type who wants to climb the ladder, mostly tries to impress the crowd, but when we are alone he talks like a nice person. 2) he constantly gives random orders (sometimes totally unnecessary) to remind everyone who is the boss. 3) he does a lot of mistakes but generally gives impression of active and caring worker. Therefore everyone from the top thinks he is a good boss. He might be a good boss, but he has obvious flaws which makes working with him very difficult. Almost all people in our department complain about him. I myself don't think I could be boss or substitute him, because I'm too shy and my morality always takes over. I think I just need to find my courage and move on. Need to find another job.
Find another job ASAP.
Here is how it's going to go down. He will screw up the project by over managing shits and he will blame some one for it and you will be there to take the fall for him.
This type of guy you can never win against unless you sink to his level.
|
On March 30 2012 22:36 Arkless wrote:
Ummmm, no you can't be insubordinate.... period. Only times it's really acceptable to refuse your boss is if it is unsafe physically or mentally. If it's just a direction you don't agree with then suck it up. He pays you, to do what he wants. He's your boss not your friend. It's kind of hard to comment without any information by the way.
Completely wrong advice lol...
OP is not a blue collar brick layer, he is a young professional, there will always be a job out there waiting for him.
OP, you need to plan your career and future, you can suck up and take shit when you are >35 but right now, tell that guy to go fuck him self then jump ship.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
