• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:35
CET 01:35
KST 09:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA13
StarCraft 2
General
SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
Data analysis on 70 million replays soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group A - Sat 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 EVE Corporation [Game] Osu!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1899 users

To Sent

Blogs > WreakHavoc
Post a Reply
WreakHavoc
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
40 Posts
March 16 2012 23:25 GMT
#1
So I recently finished the main entries in the Muv-Luv series (Extra, Unlimited, and Alternative) and Sentenal asked what my opinion of Alternative was. I have fair amount to say about and instead of bringing it up on the TLADT (where I suspect this topic has been discussed to death already) I would instead post a blog post about. Hopefully this means my thoughts are presented in a more coherent way as well.

What I think is below in the spoiler tags because there will be spoilers mentioned. There will be quite a bit of rambling and some of it might not flow very well mainly because I'm writing this during a break between classes, but hopefully I still get my point across.

+ Show Spoiler +


The first thing that jumped out at me when I began playing Alternative, was the fact that I was much more engaged with the VN relative to the other two titles in the series. I'm not quite sure what to attribute this to, but I would suspect that it would be the accumulation of the following: the gravitas of the situation, the fact that I have spent the last 20+ hours reading its predecessors just to read it, and the fact that this basically the end of the main story line (which apparently is a big thing for me, if I start a series I very much want to know how it ends, this would be regardless of the quality sometimes. I have very seldom dropped a series that I have invested a significant portion of time to, not that its really applicable in this case since I don't believe that to be an issue with Muv-Luv).

In terms of the plot, it felt pretty similar to some other titles or works of fiction that I have read before and I believe that this would be a sentiment shared by many who have read MLA. With that being said, I don't believe that this is a knock against the writing in MLA. As many accomplished authors have stated already, there are only so many original ideas out there and at this point in time most of these ideas have been explored already (See this list: http://www.strangehorizons.com/guidelines/fiction-common.shtml), although not necessarily in the same way. Again, I don't believe this to be a knock on the writing of MLA but rather just an objective observation. For me, I see MLA as more of a character study than a plot-driven story. I don't believe, that at any point during my reading of MLA, that humanity would 'lose' against the BETA (despite hoping for the author to surprise me, but more on this later) and beyond specifics, I think all of us reading the story had a fairly good idea of how the story would go. So with my biases about the story clearly stated, I will go into a bit more details about specifics of the story.

I am fairly torn on how I feel about the whole Shogun subplot that presented in MLA. I can say that during the whole time this occurred, my main thought was: why aren't they sending Takeru back to the other world, it's been 3 days (IIRC, though I may mistaken on that and this might be an error on my part). But that aside, in the end I am more in favour of the fact that they did discuss how humanity interacted with one another (in terms of varying nations) in a time of crisis, especially against an extraterrestrial threat. The whole humans vs. humans thing struck me as odd and I was inclined to agree with how Takeru originally thought. But, realistically I can accept that intra-human conflict is an inseparable part of human life, even if the whole of humanity is on the brink of extinction. So I'm glad that they included that section, even though I believe that it was a bit drawn out for my tastes. I'm not exactly sure if I really learned anything new about the characters or whether the social commentary made was anything new to me either. This whole Shogun subplot could have been tightened up but I definitely found that it was interesting. I appreciate them for fleshing out the world more and giving a more holistic view of how the Earth was/would be during the BETA invasion. Lastly, I suppose there is a pragmatic reason for its inclusion, to harden Takeru's resolve and to remind him that he has get his hands dirty in order to achieve what he wants.

Another plot point that I was fairly torn with was how they handled Sumika, specifically how she was raped/tortured by the BETA. I was incredibly disturbed by what happened to her and I think after 1-2 days it still bugs me as I'm writing this. My gut reaction was that the whole scene was a gratuitous, poor sweet Sumika didn’t deserve this. Before I go any further I suppose I should elaborate on how I feel about her first. When I first started reading Extra I was incredibly annoyed by Sumika. She was so damned clingy and was just an airhead. To me, there was little to her character besides being obsessed with Takeru (although this pretty much holds true for Alternative as well and unless I’m mistaken, please correct me if I am, she is partly to blame for dragging Takeru into this mess). As far as Alternative was concerned, I have to say that although I did piece together that the brain in the jar was Sumika before the reveal. However, I can’t say when exactly I did so and as such I present you the caveat emptor of this blog post: you may possibly be reading the ramblings of an idiot (unconfirmed). I can’t say what made me have a complete change of heart for the character, but I really did like her a lot more in Alternative, even with her fairly limited appearances. I won’t rule out that I might just feel sympathetic for her but maybe she just grew on me. I would argue that she displayed mental toughness more than anyone else in the cast, or is at least in contention for that title. Alternatively I may like her just because I fancy the idea of a dependable friend who you know will always be there for you; but, by the end of Alternative you could pretty much say that about most of his harem. So overall, I like what they’ve done with her character but not exactly what they did to her, despite the fact that you probably can’t separate the two. She’s still very much a Mary Sue through and through though.

With my ramblings about Sumika aside, this would be a segue into what I thought about the ending. I don’t think that anyone that would read this VN would be the least bit surprised at how Alternative ended. The death of all the girls was pretty much expected, if not necessary (I don’t think anyone’s willing suspension of belief would be able that). With that said I was disappointed with the epilogue and the way it was handled. I have no qualms about Takeru returning back to a peaceful version of his world. What I do have a problem with is how Takeru went back to being pretty much how he was in Extra. I did not go back to play Extra to see how the scenes differed besides the obvious points (Meiya’s sister, Kasumi, and Takeru tearing up), but after all that he went through in Unlimited and Alternative, I have to deal with that guy again? Really? Honestly I did not like Takeru at all for most of Extra and a chunk of Unlimited, but he did improve in Alternative. To see all that growth and maturation just disappear is kind of disappointing from the point of view of the reader. It bugs me especially because they could’ve been a lot more subtle with the scene where Kasumi is introduced. Instead of reading that Takeru vaguely remembers or feels like he’s seen her before, a simple a reaction similar to when he first Yuuhi would’ve sufficed for me. I would’ve preferred if it was only ever implied that Takeru remembers all the trials and tribulations that he’s gone through, the tears are acknowledgement enough for the reader.

A problem that I did take with the writing was that it was a bit heavy handed in its exposition. I feel like this is a direct result of the reader being able to, or rather having to, read all of Takeru’s thoughts. This is especially prevalent after Marimo’s death. His angst and his guilt felt like it was literally being beaten into me, I mean, I got it the first time. I’m not exactly sure what could be done about this. But, I believe in terms of how Takeru acts, feels, and speaks - a less heavy handed approach I feel would’ve helped.

In terms of the mecha and all the military stuff, I feel like those were very nice touches that really fleshed out the world. The design for all the mecha was cool and I’d definitely consider getting a kit for them now. The BETA serve their roles fine as the adversary of the human race, I don’t really care about them more than that. Overall I did enjoy reading the series and I’m glad that I did. The whole build-up for Alternative I still a bit iffy though, as it places up a fairly significant barrier of entry for the reader. I went through all three games in relatively few sittings so I have to say by the end of Alternative I was pretty burnt out, so it’s very possible I may have misread things or have misinterpreted things, if so feel free to correct me. With that said, if you feel like you disagree with me on any points feel free to express how wrong am I too.

So if you’ve made it this far, thanks for reading, I suspect this piece of writing will be plagued with tons of grammatical errors as I will probably not go through and edit this (I usually have to go through my drafts a fair number of times). Thanks for reading ~

P.S.: DAT BOW





***
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
March 17 2012 00:24 GMT
#2
Lots of MLA spoilers:
+ Show Spoiler +
I am fairly torn on how I feel about the whole Shogun subplot that presented in MLA. I can say that during the whole time this occurred, my main thought was: why aren't they sending Takeru back to the other world, it's been 3 days (IIRC, though I may mistaken on that and this might be an error on my part). But that aside, in the end I am more in favour of the fact that they did discuss how humanity interacted with one another (in terms of varying nations) in a time of crisis, especially against an extraterrestrial threat. The whole humans vs. humans thing struck me as odd and I was inclined to agree with how Takeru originally thought. But, realistically I can accept that intra-human conflict is an inseparable part of human life, even if the whole of humanity is on the brink of extinction. So I'm glad that they included that section, even though I believe that it was a bit drawn out for my tastes. I'm not exactly sure if I really learned anything new about the characters or whether the social commentary made was anything new to me either. This whole Shogun subplot could have been tightened up but I definitely found that it was interesting. I appreciate them for fleshing out the world more and giving a more holistic view of how the Earth was/would be during the BETA invasion. Lastly, I suppose there is a pragmatic reason for its inclusion, to harden Takeru's resolve and to remind him that he has get his hands dirty in order to achieve what he wants.

I really enjoyed this part, to me this was that part of Alternative where "shit got real". The Americans coming in, and their fights, and all the politics around it. It finally when from the light-hearted harem stuff from the previous 2, to real fighting and plot. In addition, the F22s were sexy beasts. This is also the first part where you just get wow'd by Alternative's engine. MLA is one of the highest budget VNs ever made, and visually it shits on even things made many years later today. The first time when they started moving their mouths at the start of Alternative was a sign things would be better, but this part blew me away, and made me go "GOD DAMNIT I WISH THIS WAS IN ANIME FORM".

Another plot point that I was fairly torn with was how they handled Sumika, specifically how she was raped/tortured by the BETA. I was incredibly disturbed by what happened to her and I think after 1-2 days it still bugs me as I'm writing this. My gut reaction was that the whole scene was a gratuitous, poor sweet Sumika didn’t deserve this. Before I go any further I suppose I should elaborate on how I feel about her first. When I first started reading Extra I was incredibly annoyed by Sumika. She was so damned clingy and was just an airhead. To me, there was little to her character besides being obsessed with Takeru (although this pretty much holds true for Alternative as well and unless I’m mistaken, please correct me if I am, she is partly to blame for dragging Takeru into this mess). As far as Alternative was concerned, I have to say that although I did piece together that the brain in the jar was Sumika before the reveal. However, I can’t say when exactly I did so and as such I present you the caveat emptor of this blog post: you may possibly be reading the ramblings of an idiot (unconfirmed). I can’t say what made me have a complete change of heart for the character, but I really did like her a lot more in Alternative, even with her fairly limited appearances. I won’t rule out that I might just feel sympathetic for her but maybe she just grew on me. I would argue that she displayed mental toughness more than anyone else in the cast, or is at least in contention for that title. Alternatively I may like her just because I fancy the idea of a dependable friend who you know will always be there for you; but, by the end of Alternative you could pretty much say that about most of his harem. So overall, I like what they’ve done with her character but not exactly what they did to her, despite the fact that you probably can’t separate the two. She’s still very much a Mary Sue through and through though.

Oh man, Sumika.... Shes my favorite girl, and can you imagine my reaction to that part? Holy shit, my poor waifu...

Sumika isn't partly to blame for dragging Takeru into Unlimited/Alternative. Shes entirely to blame. But considering what happened to her, I can hardly blame her. She watched as Unlimited/Alternative Takeru was eaten alive by Soldier Class BETA. And then she was dragged away to be raped down till only her brain was left.

Alternative should have made you like Sumika, even if you weren't a fan at first, during the PTSD arc. When she was losing her memories of Takeru, sitting in her room drawing pictures and making entries to her diary, all to keep from forgetting her Takeru-chan. That part was really powerful to me.

With my ramblings about Sumika aside, this would be a segue into what I thought about the ending. I don’t think that anyone that would read this VN would be the least bit surprised at how Alternative ended. The death of all the girls was pretty much expected, if not necessary (I don’t think anyone’s willing suspension of belief would be able that). With that said I was disappointed with the epilogue and the way it was handled. I have no qualms about Takeru returning back to a peaceful version of his world. What I do have a problem with is how Takeru went back to being pretty much how he was in Extra. I did not go back to play Extra to see how the scenes differed besides the obvious points (Meiya’s sister, Kasumi, and Takeru tearing up), but after all that he went through in Unlimited and Alternative, I have to deal with that guy again? Really? Honestly I did not like Takeru at all for most of Extra and a chunk of Unlimited, but he did improve in Alternative. To see all that growth and maturation just disappear is kind of disappointing from the point of view of the reader. It bugs me especially because they could’ve been a lot more subtle with the scene where Kasumi is introduced. Instead of reading that Takeru vaguely remembers or feels like he’s seen her before, a simple a reaction similar to when he first Yuuhi would’ve sufficed for me. I would’ve preferred if it was only ever implied that Takeru remembers all the trials and tribulations that he’s gone through, the tears are acknowledgement enough for the reader.

I can see where you are coming from. But on the other hand, after all the pain and suffering Takeru went through in Alternative, I think Takeru earned it. I doubt he would have been able live a normal life there, not after seeing practically every single one of his classmates and homeroom teacher die, some of them in really brutal ways, not to mention his relationship with Sumika in Alternative-verse. He was finally free and got back to the "good old days", and away from the constant suffering and death.


My favorite parts of it were definitely the mecha/fighting/military parts. Like Sadogashima and that entire battle blew my mind. It was so fucking good when I was reading it, I kept wanting to go on and on. The scale of the battle, how it felt, MLA's engine (as said earlier) all just combined to make it an amazing experience. When the Susuno or w/e came out, and it started playing that music like Gunbuster March... Too cool. The battle at the Yokohama base was incredible as well.

Design wise, those TSFs were incredibly sexy. I'm probably going to get a UN Colored Shirauni TSF model kit, and I already have two other TSFs that weren't in the main trilogy. I wish there was an F-22 kit.

I got hit hard by several emotional deaths in the series. Like, manly tears wise. Captain Isumi's death and Lt. Hayase's death stood out. Those were two of my favorite characters. RIP

What was your reaction to CHOMP and the resulting fallout of that?


MLA is by far my favorite VN, and I'm glad you enjoyed it. It does take a while to get to the amazing Alternative part, but IMO its worth it. Extra was tedious, but then Unlimited was too bad. But Alternative... I'm sad that I will never read Alternative again for the first time

After having finished Alternative, do you believe that this chart is accurate:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

I'm currently on the last part of that Chart myself lol
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Wala.Revolution
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
7584 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-17 00:35:20
March 17 2012 00:34 GMT
#3
+ Show Spoiler +
Jinguji-sensei was seen eating out with another man.

Also:
[image loading]
Stuck.
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-17 00:45:07
March 17 2012 00:44 GMT
#4
On March 17 2012 09:34 Wala.Revolution wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Jinguji-sensei was seen eating out with another man.

Also:
[image loading]

The first time was a huge shock, the second time was a huge emotional shock
+ Show Spoiler +
I was not ready for Jinguji-sensei being seen eating with another man.

Chapter 48 of the Manga opens with that scene lol:
http://www.wiiyi.com/mh/1659/114578.shtml
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL 21
20:00
RO16 TieBreaker - Group A
TerrOr vs Aeternum
HBO vs Kyrie
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
White-Ra 247
SpeCial 175
NeuroSwarm 123
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2685
NaDa 55
Noble 14
ivOry 1
Dota 2
PGG 255
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox413
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor184
Other Games
Grubby5811
summit1g2963
FrodaN2759
Trikslyr56
RotterdaM25
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1016
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 83
• musti20045 43
• HeavenSC 16
• davetesta16
• Airneanach8
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21869
• Ler110
Other Games
• imaqtpie1339
• Scarra1242
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
6h 55m
Classic vs SHIN
Maru vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Wardi Open
13h 25m
IPSL
19h 25m
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
BSL 21
19h 25m
StRyKeR vs Artosis
OyAji vs KameZerg
OSC
22h 25m
OSC
1d 8h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 16h
OSC
1d 22h
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LAN Event
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.