Keyboard suggestions? - Page 3

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amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

February 28 2012 20:36 GMT

#41

On February 29 2012 03:51 Potling wrote:

Show nested quote +

The OP wants/uses scissors, not rubber domes.

Also, Topres are not mechanical, they are high-quality rubber domes.

Super high quality rubber domes. I got my topre as a christmas gift 2 years ago and never looked back.

silverfire

United States304 Posts

February 29 2012 00:49 GMT

#42

First of all, thanks for all the suggestions.

Re: pickiness -- keep in mind that like everyone else, I started out with just general 'i want maybe this this and this', but over four years of trial and error I've gotten the chance to refine those general guidelines into specific criteria.

Re: why two windows keys -- I use quite a few of the shortcut keys that use the Windows key as a modifier, and on top of that I have quite a large set of AutoHotkey scripts that run using specifically LWin and RWin as modifier keys.

Re: the Logitech Illuminated -- I've spoken to someone who used to work at Logitech to see if they have plans on making a wired or wired-optional (like the G700 with data over cable if present) version of the K800, which I'd probably fall back on if all my keyboards decided to spontaneously die. The K800 is pretty much exactly the same as a wireless Illuminated, but with the correct Home key cluster complete with Insert key.

Re: mechanical with 2mm travel before bottoming out -- Cherry ML switches bottom out at 2mm, but they're only on tiny slim form factor keyboards -- Cherry G84 series comes to mind

Re: topres -- the mechanism feels fine, but the keyboards are still too tall

@Kasha_Not_Kesha -- Thanks for the suggestion. I might pick one up just to get a good feel for it for a couple weeks. $10ish is a drop in the bucket in the face of what I've already spent on keyboards.

@DYEAlabaster -- There's plenty of non-Mac keyboards with that layout (a SIIG model and an iRocks model come to mind), but the flat key surface hurts typing accuracy so much that I can't stick with those. The scissor switches and shallow key travel are pretty much exactly what I'm looking for in that class of boards, but not at the cost of typing accuracy.

--------

More background about why I'm so adamant about no mechanical or standard rubber dome is that I always type to fully bottom out every key. That difference in going from 2mm to bottom to 4mm on mechanicals and rubber domes is far more tiring. I know a lot of people swear by typing faster on mechanicals, and it's likely true for most people, but having spent almost 20 years typing on high resistance flat boards, the behavior your brain comes to expect differs far too much from what mechanical and standard domes have to offer.

Mechanicals typically have about 1.5-2mm of 'give' -- where the key just sinks in with little to no resistance since that's where the spring isn't compressed at all, and pretty much just holds the weight of the keycap up. Most Cherry MX switches actuate around 2-3mm but bottom out at 4.

Typical rubber domes have a front-loaded actuation where there's about .5mm of 'give' from rubber softness, but once you apply the full force, it collapses the rest of the 4-6mm travel, which gives that feeling of depth.

Scissor switches have a shallower amount of 'give' due to the smaller diameter rubber dome at the center of the key, and once you apply enough pressure to collapse the dome, there's a much shorter travel before bottoming out.

If I could get brown Cherry MX switches with 3-4x stronger springs and 1.7mm hard rubber stem spacers to force bottoming out at 2.3mm with low profile keycaps in a flat, thin keyboard, I'd probably adapt relatively well, but at the moment, that's more or less a pipe dream.

Kasha_Not_Kesha

United States71 Posts

February 29 2012 06:10 GMT

#43

@Kasha_Not_Kesha -- Thanks for the suggestion. I might pick one up just to get a good feel for it for a couple weeks. $10ish is a drop in the bucket in the face of what I've already spent on keyboards.

I really suggest you do. From your responses here, I think you'll really like it a lot. The only issues are the F-key spacing and the lack of a right-side Windows key, but as far as responsiveness and "feel", that Acer keyboard is incredible (especially when you consider the price =O). The key depth to bottom out is tiny compared to a mechanical keyboard, and while I'm not sure what kind of switches it uses, I'm honestly not sure it'd matter with this keyboard, but I am also the least picky person in the world when it comes to keyboards. It's incredibly thin, and it's also quite sturdy, at least in my experiences it has been.

And really, you should keep ignoring everyone suggesting mechanical keyboards; mech boards really aren't all that amazing when it comes down to it. I love my WASD keyboard, but it took me a month or two to get used to it completely. I feel if you can't sit down with a mechanical keyboard on day 1 and completely fall in love with the feel enough to justify dropping $100-$150 for your own, they probably aren't a good choice. Most people are going to do just that, but there are a few that won't, and calling their keyboards "pieces of shit" or claiming that they have inferior tastes is honestly just ignorant stupidity.

Your preferences are neither insane nor unreasonable. It's difficult to find quality non-mechanical keyboards that aren't tricked out with a billion bells and whistles; keys all over the place, function keys everywhere, and fucking scroll wheels because why not?

Regardless of whether you pick up that Acer keyboard, I wish you luck in your search. Let us know if you ever find an acceptable replacement!

Edit:
Just read your last response again, and I noticed you said something about flat keys not being accurate; the Acer keyboard I suggested does have flat key tops, so it might not be what you're looking for after all =\ There is a tiny bit of curvature to the keys, but I'm honestly unsure whether or not that curvature was even intentional, or if mine just warped from use over time. Still, it's cheap enough you could probably risk trying it.

silverfire

United States304 Posts

February 29 2012 06:22 GMT

#44

I already have a mechanical keyboard -- that's why I'm so confident in shooting it down :X

Arnstein

Norway3381 Posts

February 29 2012 07:16 GMT

#45

Which one do you have?

silverfire

United States304 Posts

February 29 2012 07:30 GMT

#46

If you mean which mechanical I have, I have the Das with the "silent" switches.

Still makes a racket though since I type by bottoming out every keystroke, so it's the sound of keycap bottoming out :X

Potling

Norway298 Posts

February 29 2012 16:27 GMT

#47

Yes, Das should refund the people misled by their "Silent" marketing. Even when you ride the acutation point (prevent bottoming out), the upstroke (keycap return) is still noisy, and it's hard to type at full speed without bottoming out because of the weak tactility of the Cherry Browns. So their "Silent" keyboard is in fact significantly noisier than most dome and scissor boards.

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