• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:49
CET 17:49
KST 01:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night
Brood War
General
Let's talk about Metropolis BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Foreign Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1696 users

Trying out Mech in TvP - Page 2

Blogs > MythLastbil
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
RoboBob
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States798 Posts
January 08 2012 19:52 GMT
#21
You can't do pure mech in TvP like you can in TvZ and TvT. You need to mix in a little extra to make viable. This was evident in even the mech D9D, where Day9 was talking up Banshees (aka Skymech) as being import to making mech work.

The only two mech styles I've seen work decently are Goody-style Ghostmech, and Jinro-style Skymech. Both of which involve leaning on Marine/Marauder to secure an FE, and then switching over to full mech instead of upgrading their bio. However keep in mind that both pros now mostly play bio TvP because its easier.

The main problem with mech TvP is that the Hellion is only good for killing Zealots. If the P doesn't make Zealots you're kinda screwed. Also, the natural counter to mech is Robo. And Protoss open Robo all the time in PvT.
happyft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States470 Posts
January 08 2012 23:59 GMT
#22
I too got really frustrated with bio-based play getting owned by colossus/templar, so I experimented with reactor rax CC into full mech builds tvp several months ago. Worked really well up until mid masters where I got dismantled by colossus cliffing and blink stalker harass, so I switched back to bio-based, and did really well with just pure macro mechanics. And then I just got raped by deathball again, so now I'm back to trying out mech again haha

Well, the first two times I've tried it today, I've won. The first replay is a Shattered Temple KOTH, my mech tvp is the first match, against a high diamond toss. The second is a ladder on Shakuras against a 500 masters toss.

http://www.mediafire.com/?nhsp88c6qyxbx4a
http://www.mediafire.com/?age278708p2sum9

As you can see in the replays, I play a pretty greedy 1 rax CC into 2 fact opening, but I'm still able to fend off 3 gate pressure in both games, holding on until my first tank pops out. I think I might adjust this to getting 1 fact and then a reactor on rax just in case I need to pump marines. Also, my build might just auto-lose against a void-ray 3 gate all-in/pressure build, but hardly anyone does that these days.

I'm basically aiming to get 4 facts up (2 reactor 2 tech lab) on 2 base, and go for an attack while I secure my third. When my third kicks in, I begin getting mech attack upgrade, reactor starport, and ghost academy before I add another 2 facts. (I aim for 2 facts/base). I also put down several turrets when I move out because that third gives you a sick ton of excess minerals.

Also, for tank spread, arc is quintessential. You actually want to minimize the depth of your tank line, and maximize your arc for optimal results. This can be pretty tricky because if your arc is not positioned well (depends GREATLY on the map), the toss might be able to figure out a way to engage your tank line without taking fire from some of your tanks. It's actually ok to clump your tanks somewhat. (Don't believe me? Test it yourself in unit testers)

Hope this helps!
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-02 17:36:55
February 02 2012 17:31 GMT
#23
Okay, one more time I'm posting in a TvP mech thread. Hope its fine for me to bump this thread.

Note that I only recently started to play again and I think that the current trend for most Protosses to take Fast Expansions really helps mech play. I'm not saying that mech is viable on the highest level of play, and to be fair I seriously doubt it, but I have a lot of fun playing mech and in contrast to bio I always feel that I can do stuff better in order to win.

I uploaded a replaypack of my TvP yesterday and today, maybe someone will find it useful. The level of play is in the 650-850 points master ranks (so pretty bad), note that I'm still playing my points up and haven't hit any wall yet, in some of the replays I felt that I was just mechanically better than my opponents. I always use the same build, although it is a really bumpy build and I'm not 100% sure how to order things correctly. It goes 12 rax 13 gas (with 1 or 2 workers in it, stop mining after ~50-150 gas, not sure what is best), 14-15 scout, build 2 marines and get reactor, then command center, build a bunker at ramp. After that its time to get second gas and 2 factories. The followup pretty much depends on what you scouted earlier, if there is 2 gas and you weren't able to scout an expansion (or for certain saw that there is no expansion) you have to get 1 factory into tank first, also dont stop marine production. If you already saw an expansion, swap reactor to factory and build hellions, 2nd factory and tech lab on rax.

The key to my strategy is to never stop hellion production until you get into the later stages of the game (~150 supply). Everything else is based on what I see the protoss doing while poking with my hellions. Hellions have a huge amount of advantages in TvP:
- They basically contain the Protoss in the early game if he goes robo tech
- You can poke regularly without losing a lot of units. This is basically a free scan because you see their unit composition, so its fine to lose a couple of hellions while doing it.
- They absolutely destroy Sentries and HTs
- Once you get to high unit numbers they vaporize zealots and are on a pretty even footage against stalkers because of splash and low stalker damage
- Protoss has to build a lot of buildingwalls to be safe from poking and harassing hellions in the midgame
- Possibility of drops in the midgame
- They build incredibly fast. I mean REALLY fast. They almost build as fast as marines.

Disadvantages:
- Losing track or getting out of positiong with your big chunk of hellions in the main fight can lose the game instantly
- Die very fast (esp. to Colossi and Archons)
- Once you get to low numbers (<8) they are useless against anything but zealots/sentries/hts
- Lack of good Anti Air in the Mech composition means a lot of turrets in the midgame

Also I regularly get 1 more Orbital Command than I have active bases. Having a lot of MULEs and Scans really profits mech, because you have to get as much out of your bases as possible and you need scans a lot once you push. Also once you push its nice to reproduce a lot of workers which were lost in the fight. One of the most important things is to get rid of observers asap because it hurts the Robo Production a lot and as very few Protoss play against mech regularly it will also make them very nervous if they don't see what you are doing and when hellions are moving out.

The most important thing to acknowledge is right in the early game. You basically have to fear 2 different things: Immortals and blink Stalkers. Blink Stalkers+Colossi are the worst thing EVER to face with mech and against a good opponent it will be an auto loss on many maps where the cliff to your main base is not protectable from all angles (like Shattered Temple). I played a TvP yesterday against very aggressive blink stalker on Shattered Temple play and I lost it right away, sadly the replay is not stored in the Recent archive so I lost it But you always absolutely and firstly have to count their stalker numbers. If they have solely stalkers in the early game, PREPARE for it. Also start thor production very early, don't bother trying to defend stalkers with tanks. Your big advantage is that you have a huge push window in the midgame if you are able to defend their harass, because stalkers are one of the worst units against a mech ball and only like 2 thors with scvs repairing can hold a base quite well against pure stalkers. Also if you see them getting a lot of stalkers very early I'm experimenting with using the techlab rax (which is meant for ghosts in the mid game) for some marauder production early on. Not sure how that would turn out, haven't faced a lot of blink stalker protosses yet (but I'm sure I will once I get higher).

Immortals are dangerous in a way that they can catch you offguard very fast and just bust through your lines extremely fast and you lose immediately. If they go Immortals, always keep track of where they are heading, don't get caught offguard. Thats one of the biggest reasons I never stop hellion production in the early and midgame. Also hellions are just good at deflecting a lot of stuff like Warp Prism harass or Chargelot warpins all around the map. Once you get a lot of hellions you can also deal with stalkers. Also, if they have robo tech: You will lose the fight hardcore if you don't prepare it exactly the way you want it to be. Your ghosts have to be positioned properly, your hellions have to poke in all the time and you can't afford to get flanked.

Replaypack:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9962/TvP_Replaypack.rar

Tell me what you think after you watched the replays I know they are still pretty low level replays, but I think the strategy can work up to 1000 points in master for me and there is so much that can be improved, so I'm pretty sure someone with better mechanics and better game sense could get far using it. I agree to avilo that the main problem of mech is that it is hardcore exploitable and there are a lot of problems that hellions cant solve, but I still think that hellions are the answer in TvP.
The biggest problem of mech is that you have to respond very fast to different protoss techs and thats why the hellion is crucial. I haven't had a lot of trouble in my TvP games so far, as soon as I will hit a wall I can upload more losses of my strategy if some ppl here are interested.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech139
BRAT_OK 98
MindelVK 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 29849
Mini 466
Soma 426
Light 423
actioN 360
Snow 318
Hyuk 262
Hyun 116
Dewaltoss 67
ggaemo 52
[ Show more ]
910 33
Oya187 25
zelot 23
Rock 22
soO 14
HiyA 13
JulyZerg 11
SilentControl 10
Dota 2
Gorgc7118
singsing3218
qojqva3189
Dendi843
syndereN349
Counter-Strike
allub191
Other Games
crisheroes382
Hui .368
RotterdaM252
DeMusliM148
ArmadaUGS135
QueenE101
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV93
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 4
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 80
• Reevou 7
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2123
• WagamamaTV429
• Noizen42
League of Legends
• TFBlade1299
Other Games
• Shiphtur102
Upcoming Events
StarCraft2.fi
11m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
7h 11m
The PondCast
17h 11m
WardiTV 2025
19h 11m
StarCraft2.fi
1d
WardiTV 2025
1d 19h
RSL Revival
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
IPSL
3 days
Sziky vs JDConan
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs TBD
herO vs Zoun
[ Show More ]
WardiTV 2025
3 days
IPSL
4 days
Tarson vs DragOn
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Revival: Season 3
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.