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So generally in my downtime, before I go to sleep or when i'm bored, watching SC2 videos on my ipod on youtube. I play SC2 and I think it's a great game and enjoy it a ton. Lately however I have stumbled across videos of BW pros and have been watching them because they are very exciting and fun to watch, just as SC2 games are. Sometimes I think I find BW videos even more exciting and interesting because I realize how difficult it is to control all of the micro and macro that they are doing with only 10 control groups maxing on 12 units or 1 building per key. Also I understand less of the metagame which makes the game more mysterious to me.
So as I was watching some BW videos, as well as streams, I came to wondering "does BW have what I dislike about SC2 the most?" That thing would be balance whiners. So I have to ask does BW have those? I personally hate when I beat a zerg in a game and I get a message after the game saying "Toss is so imba! A move to win you ******* noob!" The only thought going through my head is "dude I won because I played better, just get over it."
I just was curious whether or not BW had these kinds of people as much as we do in SC2 and if they don't, why not? My general assumption would be because the people in SC2 who are balance whiners are generally new to the series or something along those lines.
So either way let me know, since I don't play BW (nor have I ever) explain to me the differences between the communities, I would like to know.
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Balance whining is old school in BW - there, they whine about maps lol
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Montenegro10532 Posts
Artosis and Idra don't count.
Anyway, it's extremely rare to hear things like "this game is completely broken, if Blizzard doesn't fix it there's nothing we can do" etc. It rarely goes beyond the extent of people generally acknowledging some maps favor some races, that's about it.
Ironically, I think if you were to hypothetically substitute SC2 with BW in the current SC2 community, I'm pretty sure tl would explode with balance complaints. "My Scarabs sometimes work and sometimes don't and this is my main harass unit what the hell Blizzard", "Storms suck you can just dodge them / run away from them lol", "Protoss is broken as hell only one player ever wins PvZ" (well, not as of this season I guess, but generally yeah).
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On January 04 2012 02:17 ComaDose wrote:People still complain, I know it used to have people complain about the maps too. this is a good example
OMG that is amazing XD
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Well there's plenty of map imbalance whining, but much less race imbalance whining. The main reason being that we knew there were going to be no more balance patches coming, so whining about how x unit is OP in BW was completely pointless. With SC2 there are balance patches every few months plus 2 more expansions coming so people feel like if they complain enough something will change.
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BW isn't perfectly balanced, but there's a very good understanding of the balance and how maps affect balance. Part of that is really good mapmakers in the korean pro scene. Part of that is simply time with the game. A lot of it is because the game is so damn hard that it's almost impossible to not find stuff you did horribly wrong and can improve on. Look at the number of monumental errors in pro games.
But yes, some maps really really suck for some matchups, and people do whine about that, myself included. The pros don't really mind it so much, because in proleague they're just going to play favored races on each map, and the bad maps get rotated out quickly.
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There are/were still balance whiners in BW, but not as many as in SC2. However, "protoss is easy" is still common nowadays. And yes, "X map is imba" is more popular in BW than "X race is imba".
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37041 Posts
As far as I'm concerned.....
U have 3 races
U have an infinite number of maps that will come out
U have TONS of strategies to choose from
BW and SC2 will NEVER be balanced, no matter how many patches come out.
Everyone should just enjoy the game because the difference in each race and the difference in strategies regarding maps is what makes StarCraft so amazing.
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No, it's not even 1/100th as bad. Just skim through a SC1 LR thread, it's many many times better than any SC2 one. It might also have to do with the fact that everyone knows the players so well, so when a T loses vs. P people know that Best is supposed to beat Really.
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On January 04 2012 02:53 darkness wrote:
There are/were still balance whiners in BW, but not as many as in SC2. However, "protoss is easy" is still common nowadays. And yes, "X map is imba" is more popular in BW than "X race is imba".
Protoss IS easier mechanically than the other races at low level. Terran is really really hard, and zerg is micro intensive. It's not imbalanced because once you get good enough to actually play terran or zerg well enough to handle a-moved protoss army you'll have no problem handling bad protoss.
And maps have very clear stats that depict racial imbalances. I can't say the same thing with regards to general balance claims in SC2, although it's obvious when maps are imbalanced in SC2 as well.
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On January 04 2012 03:16 EternaLLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 02:53 darkness wrote:
There are/were still balance whiners in BW, but not as many as in SC2. However, "protoss is easy" is still common nowadays. And yes, "X map is imba" is more popular in BW than "X race is imba". Protoss IS easier mechanically than the other races at low level. Terran is really really hard, and zerg is micro intensive. It's not imbalanced because once you get good enough to actually play terran or zerg well enough to handle a-moved protoss army you'll have no problem handling bad protoss.
To be fair, I'm not sure it's a valid complaint that protoss is mechanically easier at a low level, because the low level is, well, low-level. I'm bad enough at BW that I regularly lost to a "+1 speedlot timing attack" (if such a thing exists) because I literally don't understand how to wall and my vulture "micro" was bad, compounded on the fact that clicking on factories and making vultures is hard work so I'd bank tons of money.
Eventually I got a little better, and was able to hold off 1a2a3aing gateway armies SOMETIMES... but don't even get me started on trying to slow push across the map ._.
But it never crossed my mind that this was a balance issue. It was obvious I was just terrible at brood war-- it wasn't a game balanced for low-level play.
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In all seriousness, no one seriously whines about BW anymore. All balance "whines" are really more or less jokes.
Like....
Protoss easy-mode 1a2a3a
Terran is broken
Swarm imba
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I'm sure there's balance whines everywhere in every game, but in my experience, SC2 has it quite bad. It seems like suddenly in SC2 everyone knows everything about the game and can't hold back their ignorance. Plus, as someone said, people hope that their whines will be heard and addressed in the upcoming patches and expansions.
In BW, with no further patches (as far as I know), the only way to impose further "balance" is in the hands of the mapmakers - so people complain about maps and such. The difference is that maps are easier to 'test and evaluate' than the entire race... so there is less balance-related nonsense in BW. Bad map? Fix or remove, then introduce new ones. 'Bad race'? How do you fix that? Hahaha.
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BW has been out for what 14 years now? its hard to compare balance when there still will be 2 more expansions for sc2, i think most people just need something to complain about when they lose ... they cant see that they didn't lose cause Terran is imba they lost because you are not good as the guy you just played or didn't counter it right.
BW took a long time to "balance" sc2 will take just as long, people need to be patient.
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On January 04 2012 03:30 Cambium wrote:
In all seriousness, no one seriously whines about BW anymore. All balance "whines" are really more or less jokes.
Like....
Protoss easy-mode 1a2a3a
Terran is broken
Swarm imba
Exactly... None of the comments are actually serious balance complaints when it comes from BW
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swarm is so imba, it makes ZvT balanced
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Bw complains are just jokes nowdays hehe, Swarm so imba tho.
SC2 balance is just more about people thinking they play a harder race and didn't scout you properly so they go OMFG x race a click noob etc.
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I totally agree. Whining about balance is just an excuse for bad mechanics...
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There isn't much BW balance whine because Blizzard won't do anything about it. It doesn't mean the game is balanced.
I don't think any human-made RTS game can be perfectly balanced as long as something is different within the races.
That being said, just enjoy the game. T might be broken in progaming levels but P is broken in low iccup levels, you will never be a progamer so whats the point
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EPT
