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Whiplash
United States2928 Posts
I stumbled upon this via twitter (or something maybe redddddit) and I just have to say that reading some of this stuff is very fascinating. He puts what I'm sure a lot of people (well maybe just some) are thinking into elegant words regarding the world of esports and finance. He also explains a lot of things in great detail that don't seem too obvious off the bat but make a good amount of sense after reading. Definitely worth a check out if you like to be intellectually stimulated.    | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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Jaxtyk
United States600 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
The whole donation bit and E-SPORTS makes me happy and yet, resurges my annoyance of the whole affair. | ||
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John Madden
American Samoa894 Posts
- Wake up, shower, brush teeth etc - Go to PC, check email - Call driver to take me to the office" Calling a driver, rich ass bachelor boss | ||
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forSeohyun
504 Posts
But is it the full truth? "Should a person of a different nationality win a national event it does not have as great an impact if a local wins an event. Why is the NBA and not the olympics the greatest basketball league and most expensive basketball league in the world? Because Its american, with american teams, winning american money. ." Think of something which has a more international appeal (basketball, baseball, american football are pretty insular) A frenchman hasn't won Tour de France since the 80ies (Hinault!) - what happened since the first american (Lemond) started winning? 1. A lot of American cycling teams, with american sponsors, which exists to this day 2. New american stars such as Armstrong and media interest (a permanent upswing?) 3. The organizers of the tour, which sells the media rights, makes more money than ever and the french interest for their tour has in all honesty not been that much lessened despite the lack of success. But of course things can get very bad, such as Germany where doping ruined the media attention, teams and interest. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
Does it benefit eSports to be international in scope? Yes, but marketers aren't supporting esports for altruism. | ||
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forSeohyun
504 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:45 Primadog wrote: I believe he's addressing specific sponsor's ROI. It's a very simple point, having a countryman win a tournament will produce better marketing results within the home country than if it was won by a foreigner. Will it create a surge in interest, and therefore value, outside the country? Maybe, but that's largely irrelevant to the sponsor. You may argue that multinational corporations exists, but that doesn't change the fact that marketing is generally separated country-by-country. The marketing departments won't really care about what happen outside of their zone. Does it benefit eSports to be international in scope? Yes, but marketers aren't supporting esports for altruism. 1. It seemed that it was specifically that a tournament win in country X that benefited the sponsors (of a team). I say that is not necessarily the case, especially if it is off-line. I provided a counter-example where "everybody" won. 2. No, I didn't argue that. Why were US Postal pumping in 50million dollars into cycling on European soil? You tell me. What was important for them was that it was a American team that got American media coverage. That the actual racing was in France was not a big issue. 3. International sponsors exist (gaming gear) but that was not my point, in fact I deliberately avoided bringing that up. Though for cycling the international sponsors (excluding bike gear) is outnumbered by national sponsors. Sorry for not getting his "simple points". Even more sorry that you didn't get mine. | ||
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Soleron
United Kingdom1324 Posts
FINALLY someone highly placed admits this. The Artosises and Day[9]s of this world cannot help themselves repeating that Esports is growing when it is NOT. -- EDIT: Wow this guy makes complete sense. I will leave esports growth to people like him and just enjoy whatever MLG/IPL/GSL can put out until the bubble bursts. | ||
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Cruncharoo
United States136 Posts
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FXOpen
Australia1844 Posts
 Today was odd, my posts ended up on reddit and TL.Thanks for the support guys. I'd just like to clarify that every viewpoint i make is based on the bias of the e-sports market. So comparing e-sports to say, the fifa world cup, isnt very viable to form an opinion around. At the same time let me apologise for my grammatical mistakes, unfortunately I am good at math, not spelling  | ||
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Cruncharoo
United States136 Posts
I noticed you didn't really talk about the subscription model in your blog post about the models of eSports. I was wondering what you thought of the different types of subscription models (paying for extra stream features + HD, subscription sites offering instructional videos, etc). These seem to be a type of steady/reliable revenue which I assume would be a welcome sight in this business environment. | ||
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FXOpen
Australia1844 Posts
I refuse to pay for anything like MLG, IEM.. (IEM cos of other issues) and everything else. MLG's delays between games + their payment for entry model makes me not want to support any extra, considering I can get the same for free.. IF they changed their production to not be so brain numbing, I would pay for it. The model itself is good if you have a product that is worth selling. But online products worth selling are few and far between, at least from a marketing point of view. The community is willing to support anyone in e-sports, but I think they need to be more picky about where money goes instead of just supporting everything. And that includes FXO stuff. If I ask ppl to support financially, I would expect my content quality to be high enough for me to personally pay for it as well... No freebies | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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Cruncharoo
United States136 Posts
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FXOpen
Australia1844 Posts
But, without revealing too much, it is a portal to something else. Unfortunately, I do not reveal business secrets and plans too often especially when I know others haven't caught onto it yet. | ||
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Cruncharoo
United States136 Posts
Good luck with your plans | ||
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FXOpen
Australia1844 Posts
I will try to do some posts from myanmar, maybe macro economical examples of differences between the countries and potential in e-sports | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
We got more than enough content out there. I do believe there is a place for streaming, but with the current amount of content out there. I'm skeptical as to how much more money people can make off of a streaming model. Not only that, but it has a trickle down effect on everything else as well. Too much exposure isn't necessarily a good thing. Everyone should feel privileged to be able to get a glimpse inside pro houses. If I were a governing body; I would definitely set in motion a clause where pro teams would not condone this practice as the gamers lose some of their mystique. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
On November 15 2011 23:47 Cruncharoo wrote: Also, I know you talked about how important barcrafts are in the scene.. do you think there is a model based on revenue sharing with the bars that host esports events? This would be similar to how a bar pays a musician on a certain night say 15% of the nights revenue, or all the money collected at the door, because they are banking on the fact that this musician is bringing a larger than normal crowd to the bar. Could a barcraft organizer, in a similar fashion, negotiate a rate with a local bar/pub/restaurant based on the extra revenue brought in by the crowd? It seems like there is a sustainable model somewhere in there.. Yes, that model has been tried and tested. Several different types are in place. As long as you prove to the owner you can bring in foot traffic, he or his competitor will welcome the extra business. The real question has always been how BarCraft's effects can be extended beyond the pockets of individual organizers and actually contribute to eSports. If it doesn't, my efforts in BarCraft will be largely a failure. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On November 16 2011 09:39 Primadog wrote: Yes, that model has been tried and tested. Several different types are in place. As long as you prove to the owner you can bring in foot traffic, he or his competitor will welcome the extra business. The real question has always been how BarCraft's effects can be extended beyond the pockets of individual organizers and actually contribute to eSports. If it doesn't, my efforts in BarCraft will be largely a failure. Well, look at it like this, We're re-streaming and giving local businesses more business. Sure, organizers are lining their pockets. There is a conundrum here: MLG is hellbent on increasing their stream numbers. As more and more Barcraft's crop up, less and less people will be tuning in through MLG directly. Who is the real benefactor? Promoters like MLG will need new ways of creating revenue other than live streams. How can the current model of MLG be sustainable if Barcraft continues to grow at the rate it is currently growing? When will it stagnate? We cannot answer any of those questions at the moment. Have to wait and see where it takes us. Cannot worry about the future, so let's focus on the present. I would look at it like this: you are helping bring the community together and giving it more exposure. That is a contribution in itself, so I wouldn't call it a failure by any stretch of the imagination. As of now, things are fine but we will have to monitor events stream rates like MLG very closely. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
That's why my ultimatum often comes down to, if you're profiting off the community, you better find a way to give back. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Agreed. | ||
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FXOpen
Australia1844 Posts
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
I guess this explains why fxopen went from twitch to own3d, pay was more reasonable. | ||
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Harrad
1003 Posts
On November 24 2011 00:22 FXOpen wrote: I have updated my blog with a little bit about my trip to burma.. wow great blog, what a BoSs. | ||
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Derity
Germany2952 Posts
i think some of this needs a more popular discussion, maybe on lo3 etc. regarding the stream numbers i guess (don't have the evidence) it is right to say that sc2 is stagnating. or even going down. streams tend to get less and less viewers compared to 3 months ago. there are too many right now. and too many events. i think a more solid league(s) are the way to go. we need more consistency. i don't think that the situation right now with like 5-10 players travelling around the world every 2nd week is healthy. we have no way to get sth like a real champion. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
Pretty interesting, but I have to agree. When I think of low tier A teamers or B teamers joining foreign teams, I feel like they're running away due to their poor performances in the GSL. It's okay for short term success, but let's face it, you're going to be low tier in Korea and you will never be better than that years from now if your choice is to go abroad. You might place deep beating foreigners, but unless you're really good to begin with you're not gonna gain much and probably will never make a big name for yourself. You might get a short term salary, but once you're passed up and your contract ends and you've been passed up by a bunch of rookies, game's over. Also, whenever I hear about boss I keep thinking he's Slog for some reason LOL Also also, grats on FXO's recent success. I was kinda worried when I heard about FXO acquiring fOu cause I thought they were a really weak team with the only decent names being Leenock and sC, but it looks like the investment is really paying off now, and it's also probably part of the reason why your names popped up here and on reddit. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
Although I disagree with the implication that growth in SC2 has stopped and we're approaching a deflationary period. Viewership numbers may have plateau for the second half of this year (NASL S1 - 84k, Dreamhack Winter/English - 82k), but that disregard economic advances in other area, like barcraft. It also disregard moves Blizzard will be making in 2012 to increase the viewerbase, like embedding tournament streams on Bnet. | ||
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FXOpen
Australia1844 Posts
Its used to capture the market for themselves. Which although blizzard is a game developer, is dangerous for the -epsorts community because blizzard has clearly shown its not very good at running sc2 events | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
The other entry on the Koreans leaving for Foreigner teams was spot on too. | ||
Porcelina
United Kingdom3249 Posts
On December 02 2011 10:34 FXOpen wrote: tournament streams on bnet only help blizzard Its used to capture the market for themselves. Which although blizzard is a game developer, is dangerous for the -epsorts community because blizzard has clearly shown its not very good at running sc2 events That is only true if they somehow embed the actual stream into either battle.net online or into the UI of SC2 itself. Which is not confirmed in any way, and I somehow doubt because of both the technical implementation involved and because of how it would relate to streaming sites. The alternative of course is that they, either on Battle.net or in-game, link somehow to the streams. And that would definitely drive more viewership in general. An approach like that would also be coupled with the launch of Blizzard DOTA which is confirmed as well as the probability of a more holistic Battle.net service which directly will drive more traffic to StarCraft II in general. As Blizzard have unveiled their new WoW annual pass, it is not unlikely that this will in the future extend to StarCraft II expansions; the result would be a larger user base, thus a wider potential for new faces in the community at large. Now, I have no guarantee that Blizzard would like to continue their more passive relationship to the e-sport scene in general in comparison to developers such as Riot or Valve. However, history has done very little to indicate a different path. And whereas it is easy to criticise Blizzard for a lot of their decisions when it comes to both the game itself and its peripheral competitive scene, I think this is a relatively safe assumption. Blizzard are quite transparent for interested on-lookers when it comes to their future planning; they are only increasing their e-sport infrastructure nominally. While they could of course be recruiting for such purposes almost exclusively internally, their hiring practices and structural development of their own business in general and in the past once again imply a continued passive approach. There are confirmed developments that very much would help future growth in areas dealing directly with interest in the competitive scene. Whether these will help to transition from the plateau situation described by Primadog remains to be seen of course. Realistically, there are opportunities for growth on the back of just a few of the projected developments in infrastructure. I am not sure if it will make StarCraft II a much bigger, or perhaps more importantly more profitable venture, at least as it pertains to the blog and its purpose. Finally, I want to thank FXOBoSS for making his own numbers public. I lack the expertise to actually calculate these myself, but the subject holds a lot of interest on both micro and macro economical levels. | ||
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