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Hello once again fine folks of Team Liquid!
Today I come to you asking for some clarification. I have not put that much effort in trying to find out myself, but the attempts I have made were unsuccesful.
So! Here's the deal, as the title kind of makes you suspect, ever since I was a little boy I have had this weird thing with my left hand. If I touch something with my right hand, I can also feel it in my left, but the strange thing is, only when Im realizing that I can do that it is "activated" if I diverge my thoughts to any random other subject it fades away.
It starts about halfway between my elbow and hand of my right hand. I feel it at the exact same spot on my left. I touch something with my right index finger, my left index finger feels it as well.
The even stranger thing is, when it is "activated" and I'm not touching anything, it's like there's an invisible blob in my left hand. I've spent many hours trying to "mold" it into something, my left hand movement seems to influence how it moves, but the blob also seems to be moving on its own.
I've never really mentioned it that much, once I believe to my friends. What I hope to find out from you my dear TL'ers is what the hell is going on, since it's obviously in my head I wonder what the fact that my brain conjures up this strange, I don't even know what to call it means?
It has never bothered me, though I've been curious about it a couple times, but never gotten around to asking anyone (Because well, it kind of sounds crazy right?) sometimes it's gone for weeks, and then something triggers me to either notice it, or think about it (I'm not sure which one comes first) and it's back.
I hope atleast 1 person that reads this knows what I'm talking about, and could hopefully enlighten me. If you have no clue, I hope you enjoyed my weird story.
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Crossed nerves? Have you talked to your parents or doctor?
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I study psychology at a pretty good university; what you have seems to be something sort of similar to synesthesia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia. Basically, what you perceive as the real world (your percepts) is a function both of what is actually in the real world and in your nervous system's interpretation of it. Your brain is probably confusing signals from your left and right hands, which leads to the percept of your left hand touching something that your right hand is touching. Wherever the nerves that handle information from your hands come together (I believe it's in the upper spine, it's been a while since I took behavioral neuroscience), the nerves for the two side of your body are probably a little too close together, or are mixed up in some way, and the signals are getting mixed up. Another example of the disconnect between reality and perception is phantom limb syndrome, where people who have amputated limbs still perceive those limbs as existing at some fundamental level, despite all evidence to the contrary. This is about all I can tell you about this exact phenomenon; I mostly work in memory research and modeling visual phenomena, so this definitely isn't my specialty.
Not everyone is made with a perfect nervous system; I'd consider yourself lucky that this 'defect' is relatively harmless, and that it affects your sensory and not your motor pathway (imagine if every time you moved your right hand, your left hand moved with it!). The fact that you've had it since you were young, and the fact that the phenomenon has stayed local and hasn't gotten more persistent or spread to other parts of your body is probably good evidence that it's NOT some sort of warning sign for a neurological disorder, if that's what you were worried about. If you really want to learn more, I'd ask a neuroscientist, but they're hard to find, and hard to get the attention of. They'll probably tell you exactly what I am though; that it's a harmless quirk in the way that specific part of your nervous system was wired, and there's absolutely nothing to worry about. If it starts changing in any way though, such as spreading up the arm or randomly appearing in another part of your body, or you get phantom pain that won't go away, do see a psychologist or neurologist. Even if a given psychologist doesn't know what's up (the field is REALLY huge), chances are they know someone who does (networking, networking, networking). Most of the contacts I know work in memory or vision, or I'd bring it up to them, as it seems like an interesting phenomenon.
tl;dr chances are it's not harmful at all, be happy it's sensory and not motor, enjoy your superpower, see a neurologist if you're really concerned or if it starts getting weirder or interfering with your life in some way, or if you just want to learn more about it.
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Me thinks that there is a simple test you can do to figure out if this is just a psychological thing in your mind, or an actual physical mix up in your body.
Have someone prick your finger with both hands extended when you're not looking or thinking about it. If you retract both or opposite hand then you're not crazy.
However the invisible blob thing could still be all psychological, its kinda like when people think that god talks to them when they pray or whatever it feels so real that they believe in it when in reality its just their own mind's manifestation of god.
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I had never mentioned it before except to friends once.
Thanks a lot for your explanation Lunchrush, that wikipedia article doesn't seem to be what's going on though, I tried clicking around a bit to different articles but I can't find anything that actually covers "Touching something with 1 body part, and then feeling it in both the body part touching and the body part that's "imagining" stuff"
Awhile ago I decided that next time I visit my doctor I would ask, but haven't been ill enough to visit him for ages.
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If you want more information on it, there's something similar in V.S. Ramachandran's book, A Brief Tour of Human Consciousness. I read it for my writing class, but this sounds much like a case in which either it's crosswiring of nerves (like stated above) or where the brain feels the need to compensate for the lack of feeling in a certain part of the body. Ramachandran has a similar case in which the person is paralyzed or cannot feel a body part because it is missing, but he hypothesizes the patient can feel the same sensations on different parts of his body. (The patient claims when you touch his cheek he can feel his left arm, which has long since been amputated). I'm not sure how much this applies, but it is probably nothing serious. A very interesting subject though. Look on Ted.com for Ramachandran's video if you'd like.
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On October 26 2011 17:45 lunchrush wrote:I study psychology at a pretty good university; what you have seems to be something sort of similar to synesthesia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia. Basically, what you perceive as the real world (your percepts) is a function both of what is actually in the real world and in your nervous system's interpretation of it. Your brain is probably confusing signals from your left and right hands, which leads to the percept of your left hand touching something that your right hand is touching. Wherever the nerves that handle information from your hands come together (I believe it's in the upper spine, it's been a while since I took behavioral neuroscience), the nerves for the two side of your body are probably a little too close together, or are mixed up in some way, and the signals are getting mixed up. Another example of the disconnect between reality and perception is phantom limb syndrome, where people who have amputated limbs still perceive those limbs as existing at some fundamental level, despite all evidence to the contrary. This is about all I can tell you about this exact phenomenon; I mostly work in memory research and modeling visual phenomena, so this definitely isn't my specialty. Not everyone is made with a perfect nervous system; I'd consider yourself lucky that this 'defect' is relatively harmless, and that it affects your sensory and not your motor pathway (imagine if every time you moved your right hand, your left hand moved with it!). The fact that you've had it since you were young, and the fact that the phenomenon has stayed local and hasn't gotten more persistent or spread to other parts of your body is probably good evidence that it's NOT some sort of warning sign for a neurological disorder, if that's what you were worried about. If you really want to learn more, I'd ask a neuroscientist, but they're hard to find, and hard to get the attention of. They'll probably tell you exactly what I am though; that it's a harmless quirk in the way that specific part of your nervous system was wired, and there's absolutely nothing to worry about. If it starts changing in any way though, such as spreading up the arm or randomly appearing in another part of your body, or you get phantom pain that won't go away, do see a psychologist or neurologist. Even if a given psychologist doesn't know what's up (the field is REALLY huge), chances are they know someone who does (networking, networking, networking). Most of the contacts I know work in memory or vision, or I'd bring it up to them, as it seems like an interesting phenomenon. tl;dr chances are it's not harmful at all, be happy it's sensory and not motor, enjoy your superpower, see a neurologist if you're really concerned or if it starts getting weirder or interfering with your life in some way, or if you just want to learn more about it.
This guy knows his stuff.
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can you use it for anything useful? like maybe if you're feeling up a lady then it feels like you're feeling up 2 ladies? idk just a thought
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Hahaha, most definitely, it doesn't feel quite the same though in my left hand, because there is no erhm, substance in what Im feeling in my left when Im touching with my right.
I have no problems feeling with my left hand either, it's just that whenever my right hand touches something it's like the feeling is duplicated by whatever part of my brain controls the senses in my left hand.
Thanks for the tip Sonikhawk, I might have a look later.
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On October 26 2011 17:45 lunchrush wrote:
Not everyone is made with a perfect nervous system
Your post sounds pretty legit, but this one made me lol. I'd like to go ahead and state that noone has a perfect nervous system. :D
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Hey,
tbh I originally just wanted to post here saying that "the guy who knows his stuff" cause he studies "psychology at a pretty good university" is completely wrong. =P
Synesthesia is something completely different because it basicly "combines" two entirely different sensory systems, mostly just in one direction. e.g. a Synesthesist (I know a few and I'd get punched in the face if I wouldn't speak up here) sees green and has a warm feeling. It's completely equivalent for them. Another example would be hearing a specfic tune and it sounds yellow to him.
Also these people have no clue that this is not "normal" unless someone talks to them about it. Problem here being that synesthesist actually have a pretty damn hard time interacting with other people since almost no one can relate to them.
Back to topic.
My gf who studies medicine at a like totally pretty damn good university (huehue) brought out this for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_nerve
"[The median nerve] originates from the brachial plexus with roots from C6, C7, C8, & T1."
A possible explanation for your issue could be that a few sensoric nerve fibers that actually should go to your right arm went towards your left arm by mistake and ended up still being connected to their original "right nerve". This could also explain why you only feel it from a single point onward since the median nerve splits into its several smaller parts at the so called "pronator teres muscle" which is pretty much at the point you described (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronator_teres_muscle). The "wrong" nerve fibers had been too few and insignificant before splitting up and as soon as there is a smaller amount of "right" fibers you start noticing the "wrong" ones.
The whole "I can activate it on purpose"-thingy goes deeper into how nerves work and would require a longer explanation.
(tl;dr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractory_period_(physiology) - your brain notices the refractory period and tries to "make it work" again. If you don't pay any attention to it it just drifts into its resting state and you need to actively focus your thoughts on it so that it "works" again. It's kinda similar to breathing or your heartbeat which you both won't notice when you don't pay attention to them (or if something is wrong =P).
tl;dr: "crossed nerves" sounds pretty much like the direction this is going towards, however the term is usually used in a slightly different context (as e.g. in the so called "mirror hand movement").
Hope that helped and enjoy the special tactics this allows for when interacting with females. /jelly
=D
Edit1: The even stranger thing is, when it is "activated" and I'm not touching anything, it's like there's an invisible blob in my left hand. I've spent many hours trying to "mold" it into something, my left hand movement seems to influence how it moves, but the blob also seems to be moving on its own.
When you say "invisible" do you mean that it does not exist but feels like it does, or that there is some physical "rubber ball" under your skin that you (and other persons) can feel? If yes, go and see a doctor, if no, nevermind.
EDIT2: HAVE TO ADD THIS SINCE PEOPLE WHO ARE AWESUM AT POSING ON THE INTERWEBS ARE AWESUM.
"I mostly work in memory research and modeling visual phenomena, so this definitely isn't my specialty."
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=de&source=hp&q="modeling visual phenomena"
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Thanks a lot Evo! What you are talking about is exactly what I ment. Also I ment that there is an invisible blob on the outside of my left hand, it feels like I have an influence on it when I move my fingers etc, but it seems impossible to actually shape it, even though it feels shapeable, if that makes sense.
I do not feel that your comparisson with for example my heart beat is accurate, when I don't think about it I can still notice it's there. When I focus on something, but am still kind of aware of my left hand, it completely disappears.
Tyty <3
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EPT
