• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:04
CEST 01:04
KST 08:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL76
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Script to open stream directly using middle click ASL20 Preliminary Maps
Tourneys
2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 573 users

Blizzard vs The Community

Blogs > Alamire
Post a Reply
Alamire
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia19 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 05:37:56
October 24 2011 01:28 GMT
#1
You might not want to hear this, but the SC community and the WoW players have a couple of things in common. These are:
1) An enormous devotion to the Blizzard games they play and
2) In inability to stop bitching and moaning about the company that makes them.

There are reasons for both these things. In the first instance, the games are simply that good. I've had periods where I've been bored with WoW and gone off and played other things, but lately, for example, I've been playing more WoW and less Rift. In a sense I'd be quite happy not to play SC2 at all since I'm terrible at it; the problem is that the game itself is so compelling that I feel that it's worth the inevitable frustration of being so bad at it. Of course, it's a close thing at times.

The second is in part a reflection of how seriously people take these games. People care and therefore are vocal about what they like and don't like. Actually... who are we kidding? This is the internet! They're only vocal about what they don't like!

Now, I think it's kinda funny to watch people froth at the mouth about these things; the thing that really irks me though is the way people proceed to argue in support of their pet cause. Since it came up in the Q&A that Kennigit posted, we'll use everyone's favourite lost cause, LAN, as an example. But first, we need to make set one thing straight about Blizzard.

Corporate morality (insofar as such an idea isn't inherently laughable) says that Blizzard is only allowed to do one thing: make money for its owners and shareholders. Everything Blizzard does has to be justified by the bottom line. If you want to persuade them to do something, you need to explain to them how it is going to make them money.

Now if we look at LAN, there are a couple of obvious reasons why Blizzard doesn't want to make it available. The first one that usually comes up is piracy. I don't have the technical insight to work out whether the whole piracy argument holds water, but most of what I've read suggests that it probably does. Let's just say for the moment that anyone arguing that LAN doesn't make piracy a problem needs to be pretty persuasive about it. If you have a solution to the problem, hell, go and make some money off it. I also think that a big part of why Blizzard won't release LAN is control. Blizzard effectively lost control of their BW product a decade or more ago, and that's not something that looks good to the suits. Blizzard has also recently been in court in Korea essentially over who controls the BW. This issue more or less went away, but I'd lay London to a brick that Blizzard let this slide because they didn't expect the BW world to be around for more than a couple more years. As things stand in SC2, you can't play a single game in SC2 without Blizzard's permission. In a world where a bunch of companies that aren't Blizzard will be trying to make money off Blizzard's games, that control is important to Blizzard. In fact, it's more than important; it's *valuable*. It give Blizzard the leverage they didn't have in Korea. This isn't necessarily even about Blizz getting paid at this stage. They can control who gets associated with their product and who doesn't. Some porn site wants to run an SC2 competition? Tough...

Now you can like these reasons or not, be persuaded by them or not, but let's assume for the moment that Blizzard believes them, or something like them. How do you argue against them?

Here's how not to:

Blizzard, you *)#&$)( cocksuckers, give us our *(#&^ LAN ffs!

As a relative newcomer to this community, it seems to me that there are a bunch of assumptions from long term SCers about what is good, what is bad, what is needed and what players are entitled to that are based on the experience of BW. The simple way of saying that is that "We had LAN in BW therefore we should have it now." The hell with that. Personally, I reckon people should think themselves lucky that Blizzard wasn't prescient enough to take LAN out before BW shipped. If they'd known what was going to happen in Korea, they certainly would have. I mean, that might have strangled e-sport at birth, but going back to a previous paragraph, e-sport is not Blizzards thing. Shifting lots of product is Blizzard's thing.

The status quo is no longer Brood War; the status quo is what you have now. You can use BW to illustrate a point (such as... chat channels... please implement chat channels like in BW) but you can't use Brood War as an justification on its own (i.e. BW had chat channels therefore we must have chat channels). I throw the chat channels thing in because it's a useful contrast with LAN. A bunch of people asked for them, there's no real danger to Blizzards bottom line other than the cost of implementing them, and so, eventually, we got them. LAN has implications for the bottom line, so you need to marshall a better argument than "it would be nice if...", and let's be clear here: when you yell and scream about the absence of LAN and call Blizzard names, all you are doing is saying, in a fairly childish and unconstructive manner, "it would be nice if we had LAN". What you need is an argument!

Now, to be honest, I can't think of an argument for making LAN generally available. This doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have it; of course, it'd be cool. However, I can't think of anything that would overcome what I would understand to be Blizzard's reasons for not making it available. However, I *can* develop the skeleton of an argument for developing a LAN server for tournaments available though, so I'm going to use that as an example of how to develop a case. I'm also going to switch to point form before I fill up the internet with dependent clauses.

Competitive SC2 has an enormous following amongst gamers, including those who do not own, or do own but don't actively play SC2;
This represents an enormous benefit to Blizzard in the form of free (or if not free, at least fairly cheap) marketing;
All these eyes watching SC2 online represent potential sales of Blizzard products;
With the extended SC2 product slate and other products, this marketing is likely to be useful to Blizzard beyond the short and medium term;
With this in mind, the connection problems that have arisen at tournaments lessen the value of this marketing and reflect poorly on Blizzard, even where these connectivity issues have nothing to do with Blizzard;
It is therefore in Blizzard's interest to ensure the tournaments like MLG, IPL, GSL and so on have a reliable connection at all times;
The only way to do this is for Blizzard to develop a portable server environment for tournaments;
Some of the development cost could be defrayed by charges to the tournaments for use.

Now, this is only an outline. It would need some work and fleshing out, and I suspect Blizz doesn't really need to be persuaded on this anyway. However, if you feel you can do the job for making LAN generally available, have at it! Just spare me the ranting unless you have a real talent for it.

**EDIT-- I should make it clear that this piece isn't about LAN or no LAN; it's about how to argue whatever you want to argue. In order to persuade someone, you need to know what drives them. **

***
Forester
Profile Joined September 2010
United States116 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 03:02:18
October 24 2011 03:00 GMT
#2
Very good post, 5/5. I actually agree with you on all counts. Much as I like to delude myself thinking that we who have put our blood, sweat, hard-earned cash, and time into the game, what out really comes down to is that out of blizzard's game and they get to choose how best they can suck our money away from us...

also lol'd @ corporate morality (as if that exists, hah!)
The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
October 24 2011 03:07 GMT
#3
Anyone who complains a lot about not having LAN is just dumb imo. The reasons why they haven't implemented it are valid, and seriously, when is the last time not having LAN has ruined an event? Delays here and there, maybe some lag in between, but shit like this happens and the event goes on unhindered in its competitive aspect. In probably 95% of all games there's no issues with battlenet.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13901 Posts
October 24 2011 03:47 GMT
#4
your talking about exactly what they did for LAN with WOW arena. It got leaked and now there are private arena servers and blizz regreats it ever did it.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
reneg
Profile Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
October 24 2011 04:03 GMT
#5
On October 24 2011 12:07 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Anyone who complains a lot about not having LAN is just dumb imo. The reasons why they haven't implemented it are valid, and seriously, when is the last time not having LAN has ruined an event? Delays here and there, maybe some lag in between, but shit like this happens and the event goes on unhindered in its competitive aspect. In probably 95% of all games there's no issues with battlenet.


At pretty much every major lan, there's always at least one pro that's like, "the lag sucks, blizzard needs to implement lan."

While i understand the complaint, blizzard has been pretty hardline on the matter. One more pro saying again, "we need lan" isn't going to do it for them, they just aren't going to do it.

I feel like too many people feel entitled to having a game bend to their will (i mainly blame WoW and their incredible balance shifts as they realize, woops, something is incredibly OP). People have gotten accustomed to this with blizz over the last 6 or so years, and so now they expect it.

And with blizzard mainly keeping with that in SC2 (with a number of extremely large balance patches even a year after release), i feel like it's something that's unlikely to change.

It needs to be less of a community vs. blizzard, and more of a community accepting blizzard, IMO.
moose...indian
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 04:19:16
October 24 2011 04:11 GMT
#6
Blizzard is not just focusing on bottom-line impact, they unlike most game companies have historically focused on the triple bottom line. Which is why they have such devoted fans in the first place.

The problem is barriers of communication. I look at Capcom and I feel they are really in touch with the competitive community, they bring out HD re-releases of old games, the balance patches are sound (for the most part), and they mostly give what the fans want. Hell Capcom even brought back ken's kara-throw in SF4 which was a glitch in SF3, this is like Blizzard bringing back Muta stacking in SC2.

Blizzard on the other hand takes the opposite stance these days, its almost like they bring out a feature, and then convince the fans they want it, when it really needs to be the other way around. Just look at the phoenix change, if it was Capcom, I'm sure they would have done it right.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Bayyne
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1967 Posts
October 24 2011 04:54 GMT
#7
For the longest time I was under the assumption (maybe mistaken) that the GSL did in fact have a private server dedicated to the GSL that was given to them by Blizzard as a result of their partnership. In all the GSL games I've seen, the only disconnect that I can remember was during the MVP v. Dimaga match. But again, I don't have official confirmation on this and I can be totally wrong.

However, I 100% agree with the OP and I have felt the same way for a long ass time about this. If LAN would financially hurt Blizz's revenue, why not provide a "tournament" version of SC2 only to the major tournaments in the world? This version would cost money, but I easily feel that the major tournament organizers would be more than willing to pay extra for a version that would lead to no latency issues, better experience for the players, and better spectator experience as well.



Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
SpoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 06:53:21
October 24 2011 06:52 GMT
#8
The thing about LAN too is that it removes the top level players from battle.net and blizzard can't track their stats.

They will all just be practicing in their team houses amongst each other for the most part. And then tournaments would be played on LAN as well.

I would suspect after 5+ years when only the diehards are left, they might give us lan. Just like they gave us a bunch of uber late features and patches to BW a few years back.
A man is what he thinks about all day long.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 1
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
ZZZero.O237
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Livibee 170
Nina 66
ProTech59
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 237
NaDa 59
Dota 2
monkeys_forever222
Pyrionflax151
League of Legends
Grubby5260
Dendi1077
Counter-Strike
fl0m1658
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor348
Other Games
summit1g8908
ViBE177
Trikslyr51
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick67307
StarCraft 2
angryscii 30
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta82
• musti20045 38
• tFFMrPink 18
• HeavenSC 1
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22130
League of Legends
• Doublelift5256
• Jankos2252
Other Games
• imaqtpie2091
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10h 57m
RSL Revival
10h 57m
Classic vs Clem
FEL
15h 57m
Elazer vs Spirit
Gerald vs MaNa
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18h 57m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d 11h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.