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I just wanted to say that I am very dissapointed in the sc2 community. The reception they gave the league of legends on the IPL stream on justin.tv is just terrible, only being worse at the halo incident. IPL has advertised that LoL would be broadcast in their stream at specific times but still the chat and even the IPL thread here was full of people saying things like;
"lol is destroying esports"
"lol takes no skill"
"its just for casuals"
"wtf where is sc2"
etc etc
Basically the collective message was we are spolit brats and give us what we want.
The truth of the matter is this, League does actually take a lot of skill to play, no it doesnt take the same type of skill as sc2 as it is a different game and in its own genre. but it takes teamwork which sc2 completely lacks, just as much map awareness and essentially good macro in the sense of last hitting, defending and pusing towers, harrassing etc etc that the best of the best do.
Casuals are what makes up both communities and are what drives the growth of esports. If casuals didnt come pla both games and expand the userbase of both games there would be no pro scene as it simpy would not be profitable in any way shape or form.
If you actually go read the event schedule you would have seen that LoL was to be broadcast at these times, you do no have a leg to stand on when you demand that they close the stream to put LoL on.
Both games contain complexity for newcomers, LoL has something like 70 heroes and SC2 has something like 30 different units (can't remember the specific number of either). This introduces a large learning curve on anyone who isnt familiar with either games as they have no idea what heroes or units do. So when you say that lol isnt good to watch becuase there is to much going on, remember sc2 has just as much going on.
I really want to expand on this further but I have my final year uni project to continue to work on. I think I have got the basic points out of the way.
 
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A lot of people were annoyed by the fact that they put LoL right after a semi final and right before another one. Also, many Europeans can't stay up all night long waiting for starcraft to come back
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I don't get why they would hold up the SC2 tourney just to show LoL on the SC2 stream. Isn't that why they have two streams so each game can be run on its own?
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On October 10 2011 09:57 Linwelin wrote:
A lot of people were annoyed by the fact that they put LoL right after a semi final and right before another one. Also, many Europeans can't stay up all night long waiting for starcraft to come back
This, more of the complaints I saw were for those reasons exactly, not cause LoL was going to be streamed. This was especially cause with 6 streams there's no reason they can't do both at once, satisfying everyone.
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Well I'm in Aus, all events in the US and Europe occur at bad times for us (its 12:00pm here). The fact of the matter is that IPL is based in the US and as such are catering to US times.
And as i said IGN scheduled LoL to fit in that slot
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On October 10 2011 09:58 Horuku wrote:
I don't get why they would hold up the SC2 tourney just to show LoL on the SC2 stream. Isn't that why they have two streams so each game can be run on its own?
Well by that logic why would they have anything other than F1 cars racing at a grand prix?
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Put yourself in the shoes of a hardcore Toronto Maple Leafs fan.
You are in the stadium.
You are cheering on the Leafs after the first period just ended.
Now.
Instead of there being more Hockey.
They're going to make you sit through 9 innings of Baseball.
That is essentially what IPL just did to the SC2 community. I highly doubt there are many people here who actually HATE LoL. But when you bitchslap a whole community or specific fanbase. People are going to be mad...
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On October 10 2011 10:02 DFDream wrote:
Put yourself in the shoes of a hardcore Toronto Maple Leafs fan.
You are in the stadium.
You are cheering on the Leafs after the first period just ended.
Now.
Instead of there being more Hockey.
They're going to make you sit through 9 innings of Baseball.
That is essentially what IPL just did to the SC2 community. I highly doubt there are many people here who actually HATE LoL. But when you bitchslap a whole community or specific fanbase. People are going to be mad...
Once again if that was the case it would be advertised in the event schedule as they did with LoL.
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There are 6 streams, 2 main streams. I don't mind LoL, but I don't see why they couldn't have LoL on one stream and SC2 on the other.
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On October 10 2011 10:02 BordZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 09:58 Horuku wrote:
I don't get why they would hold up the SC2 tourney just to show LoL on the SC2 stream. Isn't that why they have two streams so each game can be run on its own? Well by that logic why would they have anything other than F1 cars racing at a grand prix?
By your logic, just because IPL shows something we are automatically supposed to enjoy it no matter what? If they played a command and conquer tournament we are supposed to just fall in love with it and smother it with attention? People that are watching IPL are watching for SC2, the fact that they throw LoL down our throats in the middle of the semi finals is silly. The ONLY reason they do it is because Riot is trying so hard to make it an esport they pay IPL to do that. NO tournament that has multiple games does that shit. WCG isn't like "we're gonna play the first half of SC2 semi finals and then the CS finals and then finish the SC2 semi finals" that's some horse shit.
Just because they schedule it how does that make it right? Explain this please?
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On October 10 2011 10:06 AnxiousHippo wrote:
There are 6 streams, 2 main streams. I don't mind LoL, but I don't see why they couldn't have LoL on one stream and SC2 on the other.
It doesnt matter what Ign deicded to do with the streams, the sc2 community should not be so hostile towards something different. You's seem to think that yous are the best gaming community but this demonstrates otherwise (and no i am not saying lol's is better, I know for a fact it is worse).
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On October 10 2011 10:06 BordZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:02 DFDream wrote:
Put yourself in the shoes of a hardcore Toronto Maple Leafs fan.
You are in the stadium.
You are cheering on the Leafs after the first period just ended.
Now.
Instead of there being more Hockey.
They're going to make you sit through 9 innings of Baseball.
That is essentially what IPL just did to the SC2 community. I highly doubt there are many people here who actually HATE LoL. But when you bitchslap a whole community or specific fanbase. People are going to be mad... Once again if that was the case it would be advertised in the event schedule as they did with LoL.
As if I check the schedule. It's a SC2 tournament, I don't randomly check it for LoL games.
If I wanted to watch LoL, I would.
I was watching a SC2 tournament, it was cut in half between 2 semi finals (a huge advantage to the winner of the first semi final because he gets to rest while the other semi-finalist has his match still). Yes, that fucking pisses me off.
It is one of the dumbest things I've seen a tournament do.
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On October 10 2011 10:09 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:02 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 09:58 Horuku wrote:
I don't get why they would hold up the SC2 tourney just to show LoL on the SC2 stream. Isn't that why they have two streams so each game can be run on its own? Well by that logic why would they have anything other than F1 cars racing at a grand prix? By your logic, just because IPL shows something we are automatically supposed to enjoy it no matter what? If they played a command and conquer tournament we are supposed to just fall in love with it and smother it with attention? People that are watching IPL are watching for SC2, the fact that they throw LoL down our throats in the middle of the semi finals is silly. The ONLY reason they do it is because Riot is trying so hard to make it an esport they pay IPL to do that. NO tournament that has multiple games does that shit. WCG isn't like "we're gonna play the first half of SC2 semi finals and then the CS finals and then finish the SC2 semi finals" that's some horse shit. Just because they schedule it how does that make it right? Explain this please?
I never said you have to enjoy the support races. They exist to broaden the offerings audience and increase numbers for people who may not like the main event.
Now to be fair I have never said I support what Ign did with the streams and I can understand why you can be angry but you do not get the right to belittle another game just becuase you are not getting spoilt like a brat.
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On October 10 2011 10:11 Kurr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:06 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:02 DFDream wrote:
Put yourself in the shoes of a hardcore Toronto Maple Leafs fan.
You are in the stadium.
You are cheering on the Leafs after the first period just ended.
Now.
Instead of there being more Hockey.
They're going to make you sit through 9 innings of Baseball.
That is essentially what IPL just did to the SC2 community. I highly doubt there are many people here who actually HATE LoL. But when you bitchslap a whole community or specific fanbase. People are going to be mad... Once again if that was the case it would be advertised in the event schedule as they did with LoL. As if I check the schedule. It's a SC2 tournament, I don't randomly check it for LoL games. If I wanted to watch LoL, I would. I was watching a SC2 tournament, it was cut in half between 2 semi finals (a huge advantage to the winner of the first semi final because he gets to rest while the other semi-finalist has his match still). Yes, that fucking pisses me off. It is one of the dumbest things I've seen a tournament do.
Well they have been saying on stream all week that LoL would be being played at roughly these times and as such your lack of effort is to blame here.
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On October 10 2011 10:14 BordZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:09 aike wrote:On October 10 2011 10:02 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 09:58 Horuku wrote:
I don't get why they would hold up the SC2 tourney just to show LoL on the SC2 stream. Isn't that why they have two streams so each game can be run on its own? Well by that logic why would they have anything other than F1 cars racing at a grand prix? By your logic, just because IPL shows something we are automatically supposed to enjoy it no matter what? If they played a command and conquer tournament we are supposed to just fall in love with it and smother it with attention? People that are watching IPL are watching for SC2, the fact that they throw LoL down our throats in the middle of the semi finals is silly. The ONLY reason they do it is because Riot is trying so hard to make it an esport they pay IPL to do that. NO tournament that has multiple games does that shit. WCG isn't like "we're gonna play the first half of SC2 semi finals and then the CS finals and then finish the SC2 semi finals" that's some horse shit. Just because they schedule it how does that make it right? Explain this please? I never said you have to enjoy the support races. They exist to broaden the offerings audience and increase numbers for people who may not like the main event. Now to be fair I have never said I support what Ign did with the streams and I can understand why you can be angry but you do not get the right to belittle another game just becuase you are not getting spoilt like a brat.
We can belittle another game for whatever reason we want. You are acting like a little brat for complaining about what other people like or dislike. Booing halo live with the players right there, and complaining in an internet chat are not even fucking close to the same thing. Stop trying to defend LoL so hard, nobody cares. And again, who the fuck cares if it was on schedule or not, the fact that it was scheduled has nothing to do with the problem. The problem is that they placed it at a stupid place when everybody was there for starcraft. It's one thing to say "hey we have an hour before the players will be ready, so here's some LoL" it's another to say "we're not going to do the next semi final because we are going to do LoL in the middle here instead"
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On October 10 2011 10:11 BordZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:06 AnxiousHippo wrote:
There are 6 streams, 2 main streams. I don't mind LoL, but I don't see why they couldn't have LoL on one stream and SC2 on the other. It doesnt matter what Ign deicded to do with the streams, the sc2 community should not be so hostile towards something different. You's seem to think that yous are the best gaming community but this demonstrates otherwise (and no i am not saying lol's is better, I know for a fact it is worse).
Take a look at the top of the website. Does it say LoL progaming news - community - team? No. Does it say E-sports news - community - team? No. It's great to support all of e-sports but this is a STARCRAFT website and I would expect many people here to only care about SC. People here aren't obligated to support anything other than SC and I really don't see why that surprises you so much.
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LoL may or may not take skill to play but it's boring as hell to watch. The one game I did watch was 0-0 for the first 15 minutes. Personally I can't wait until it gets replaced with DotA2 because at least that game is much more action-oriented early game and takes more skill that LoL to boot.
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On October 10 2011 10:16 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:14 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:09 aike wrote:On October 10 2011 10:02 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 09:58 Horuku wrote:
I don't get why they would hold up the SC2 tourney just to show LoL on the SC2 stream. Isn't that why they have two streams so each game can be run on its own? Well by that logic why would they have anything other than F1 cars racing at a grand prix? By your logic, just because IPL shows something we are automatically supposed to enjoy it no matter what? If they played a command and conquer tournament we are supposed to just fall in love with it and smother it with attention? People that are watching IPL are watching for SC2, the fact that they throw LoL down our throats in the middle of the semi finals is silly. The ONLY reason they do it is because Riot is trying so hard to make it an esport they pay IPL to do that. NO tournament that has multiple games does that shit. WCG isn't like "we're gonna play the first half of SC2 semi finals and then the CS finals and then finish the SC2 semi finals" that's some horse shit. Just because they schedule it how does that make it right? Explain this please? I never said you have to enjoy the support races. They exist to broaden the offerings audience and increase numbers for people who may not like the main event. Now to be fair I have never said I support what Ign did with the streams and I can understand why you can be angry but you do not get the right to belittle another game just becuase you are not getting spoilt like a brat. We can belittle another game for whatever reason we want. You are acting like a little brat for complaining about what other people like or dislike. Booing halo live with the players right there, and complaining in an internet chat are not even fucking close to the same thing. Stop trying to defend LoL so hard, nobody cares.
And that is why the SC2 community is not as good as it thinks it is. Thank you for proving my point.
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On October 10 2011 10:18 BordZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:16 aike wrote:On October 10 2011 10:14 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:09 aike wrote:On October 10 2011 10:02 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 09:58 Horuku wrote:
I don't get why they would hold up the SC2 tourney just to show LoL on the SC2 stream. Isn't that why they have two streams so each game can be run on its own? Well by that logic why would they have anything other than F1 cars racing at a grand prix? By your logic, just because IPL shows something we are automatically supposed to enjoy it no matter what? If they played a command and conquer tournament we are supposed to just fall in love with it and smother it with attention? People that are watching IPL are watching for SC2, the fact that they throw LoL down our throats in the middle of the semi finals is silly. The ONLY reason they do it is because Riot is trying so hard to make it an esport they pay IPL to do that. NO tournament that has multiple games does that shit. WCG isn't like "we're gonna play the first half of SC2 semi finals and then the CS finals and then finish the SC2 semi finals" that's some horse shit. Just because they schedule it how does that make it right? Explain this please? I never said you have to enjoy the support races. They exist to broaden the offerings audience and increase numbers for people who may not like the main event. Now to be fair I have never said I support what Ign did with the streams and I can understand why you can be angry but you do not get the right to belittle another game just becuase you are not getting spoilt like a brat. We can belittle another game for whatever reason we want. You are acting like a little brat for complaining about what other people like or dislike. Booing halo live with the players right there, and complaining in an internet chat are not even fucking close to the same thing. Stop trying to defend LoL so hard, nobody cares. And that is why the SC2 community is not as good as it thinks it is. Thank you for proving my point.
Why do you feel that you're above the community when you say shit like this?
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On October 10 2011 10:17 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:11 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:06 AnxiousHippo wrote:
There are 6 streams, 2 main streams. I don't mind LoL, but I don't see why they couldn't have LoL on one stream and SC2 on the other. It doesnt matter what Ign deicded to do with the streams, the sc2 community should not be so hostile towards something different. You's seem to think that yous are the best gaming community but this demonstrates otherwise (and no i am not saying lol's is better, I know for a fact it is worse). Take a look at the top of the website. Does it say LoL progaming news - community - team? No. Does it say E-sports news - community - team? No. It's great to support all of e-sports but this is a STARCRAFT website and I would expect many people here to only care about SC. People here aren't obligated to support anything other than SC and I really don't see why that surprises you so much.
I blogged here as I play both and TL is generally a lot more respectful than other communities.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
It's a free stream people. No one is making you watch it. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
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On October 10 2011 10:18 BordZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:16 aike wrote:On October 10 2011 10:14 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:09 aike wrote:On October 10 2011 10:02 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 09:58 Horuku wrote:
I don't get why they would hold up the SC2 tourney just to show LoL on the SC2 stream. Isn't that why they have two streams so each game can be run on its own? Well by that logic why would they have anything other than F1 cars racing at a grand prix? By your logic, just because IPL shows something we are automatically supposed to enjoy it no matter what? If they played a command and conquer tournament we are supposed to just fall in love with it and smother it with attention? People that are watching IPL are watching for SC2, the fact that they throw LoL down our throats in the middle of the semi finals is silly. The ONLY reason they do it is because Riot is trying so hard to make it an esport they pay IPL to do that. NO tournament that has multiple games does that shit. WCG isn't like "we're gonna play the first half of SC2 semi finals and then the CS finals and then finish the SC2 semi finals" that's some horse shit. Just because they schedule it how does that make it right? Explain this please? I never said you have to enjoy the support races. They exist to broaden the offerings audience and increase numbers for people who may not like the main event. Now to be fair I have never said I support what Ign did with the streams and I can understand why you can be angry but you do not get the right to belittle another game just becuase you are not getting spoilt like a brat. We can belittle another game for whatever reason we want. You are acting like a little brat for complaining about what other people like or dislike. Booing halo live with the players right there, and complaining in an internet chat are not even fucking close to the same thing. Stop trying to defend LoL so hard, nobody cares. And that is why the SC2 community is not as good as it thinks it is. Thank you for proving my point.
We get it, you're above us. Please do us a favor and go to your favorite LoL forum if we can't answer to your standards here.
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There wasn't a lot of LoL takes no skills since no one watched it actually. I ,for one, have nothing agaisn't LoL... until they choose to put it right in the middle of the most interesting part of the tournament 
It was mostly people complaining that they put LoL right in the middle of the tournament to Starcraft viewers are "forced" to watch LoL finals. Then european that stayed up to watch Stephano's run are like "wait am I actually gonna have to stay up even later its monday tomorrow so most of the europeans left.
Then Alex says that they want to "introduce" starcraft 2 players to LoL to grow esports but put up 2 commentators that does absolutly no attempts to explain the game to new comers, wich is understandable since their tournament has been going on whole weekend too on their OWN STREAM.
I mean IPL had SIX streams just for starcraft and probably at least one for LoL yet they have to delay starcraft and cut it in half?
To me it just seems like an attempt by Riot to boost their viewer count.
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On October 10 2011 10:21 SpiZe wrote:There wasn't a lot of LoL takes no skills since no one watched it actually. It was mostly people complaining that they put LoL right in the middle of the tournament to Starcraft viewers are "forced" to watch LoL finals. Then european that stayed up to watch Stephano's run are like "wait am I actually gonna have to stay up even later its monday tomorrow so most of the europeans left. Then Alex says that they want to "introduce" starcraft 2 players to LoL to grow esports but put up 2 commentators that does absolutly no attempts to explain the game to new comers, wich is understandable since their tournament has been going on whole weekend too on their OWN STREAM. I mean IPL had SIX streams just for starcraft and probably at least one for LoL yet they have to delay starcraft and cut it in half? To me it just seems like an attempt by Riot to boost their viewer count.
There was a poll in the LR thread and 85% of people were watching SSF4 vs 15% LoL so that's true as well. Most people just cut the stream.
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On October 10 2011 10:20 BordZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:17 setzer wrote:On October 10 2011 10:11 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:06 AnxiousHippo wrote:
There are 6 streams, 2 main streams. I don't mind LoL, but I don't see why they couldn't have LoL on one stream and SC2 on the other. It doesnt matter what Ign deicded to do with the streams, the sc2 community should not be so hostile towards something different. You's seem to think that yous are the best gaming community but this demonstrates otherwise (and no i am not saying lol's is better, I know for a fact it is worse). Take a look at the top of the website. Does it say LoL progaming news - community - team? No. Does it say E-sports news - community - team? No. It's great to support all of e-sports but this is a STARCRAFT website and I would expect many people here to only care about SC. People here aren't obligated to support anything other than SC and I really don't see why that surprises you so much. I blogged here as I play both and TL is generally a lot more respectful than other communities.
You say you blogged here because TL is more respectful than other communities, but you come in here disrespecting. Funny how that works. People have the right to like or dislike anything they want, and they have the right to vocalize those likes and dislikes. You saying that it's a terrible community because they exercise that right to vocalize their likes and dislikes says a lot about you.
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On October 10 2011 10:19 DFDream wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:18 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:16 aike wrote:On October 10 2011 10:14 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:09 aike wrote:On October 10 2011 10:02 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 09:58 Horuku wrote:
I don't get why they would hold up the SC2 tourney just to show LoL on the SC2 stream. Isn't that why they have two streams so each game can be run on its own? Well by that logic why would they have anything other than F1 cars racing at a grand prix? By your logic, just because IPL shows something we are automatically supposed to enjoy it no matter what? If they played a command and conquer tournament we are supposed to just fall in love with it and smother it with attention? People that are watching IPL are watching for SC2, the fact that they throw LoL down our throats in the middle of the semi finals is silly. The ONLY reason they do it is because Riot is trying so hard to make it an esport they pay IPL to do that. NO tournament that has multiple games does that shit. WCG isn't like "we're gonna play the first half of SC2 semi finals and then the CS finals and then finish the SC2 semi finals" that's some horse shit. Just because they schedule it how does that make it right? Explain this please? I never said you have to enjoy the support races. They exist to broaden the offerings audience and increase numbers for people who may not like the main event. Now to be fair I have never said I support what Ign did with the streams and I can understand why you can be angry but you do not get the right to belittle another game just becuase you are not getting spoilt like a brat. We can belittle another game for whatever reason we want. You are acting like a little brat for complaining about what other people like or dislike. Booing halo live with the players right there, and complaining in an internet chat are not even fucking close to the same thing. Stop trying to defend LoL so hard, nobody cares. And that is why the SC2 community is not as good as it thinks it is. Thank you for proving my point. Why do you feel that you're above the community when you say shit like this?
I never said i was above the community. I don't really consider myself apart of it anymore to be honest but when people rage over something so trivial it doesn't exaclty give the best impression.
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On October 10 2011 10:22 BordZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:19 DFDream wrote:On October 10 2011 10:18 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:16 aike wrote:On October 10 2011 10:14 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:09 aike wrote:On October 10 2011 10:02 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 09:58 Horuku wrote:
I don't get why they would hold up the SC2 tourney just to show LoL on the SC2 stream. Isn't that why they have two streams so each game can be run on its own? Well by that logic why would they have anything other than F1 cars racing at a grand prix? By your logic, just because IPL shows something we are automatically supposed to enjoy it no matter what? If they played a command and conquer tournament we are supposed to just fall in love with it and smother it with attention? People that are watching IPL are watching for SC2, the fact that they throw LoL down our throats in the middle of the semi finals is silly. The ONLY reason they do it is because Riot is trying so hard to make it an esport they pay IPL to do that. NO tournament that has multiple games does that shit. WCG isn't like "we're gonna play the first half of SC2 semi finals and then the CS finals and then finish the SC2 semi finals" that's some horse shit. Just because they schedule it how does that make it right? Explain this please? I never said you have to enjoy the support races. They exist to broaden the offerings audience and increase numbers for people who may not like the main event. Now to be fair I have never said I support what Ign did with the streams and I can understand why you can be angry but you do not get the right to belittle another game just becuase you are not getting spoilt like a brat. We can belittle another game for whatever reason we want. You are acting like a little brat for complaining about what other people like or dislike. Booing halo live with the players right there, and complaining in an internet chat are not even fucking close to the same thing. Stop trying to defend LoL so hard, nobody cares. And that is why the SC2 community is not as good as it thinks it is. Thank you for proving my point. Why do you feel that you're above the community when you say shit like this? I never said i was above the community. I don't really consider myself apart of it anymore to be honest but when people rage over something so trivial it doesn't exaclty give the best impression.
Great. Leave. 
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What I don't get is why they put lol on the sc2 stream. Aren't there 2 streams for tht purpose? Also lol is so goddamn boring. Put up an fps or fighting game or racing game up there just not lol.
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On October 10 2011 10:20 BordZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:17 setzer wrote:On October 10 2011 10:11 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:06 AnxiousHippo wrote:
There are 6 streams, 2 main streams. I don't mind LoL, but I don't see why they couldn't have LoL on one stream and SC2 on the other. It doesnt matter what Ign deicded to do with the streams, the sc2 community should not be so hostile towards something different. You's seem to think that yous are the best gaming community but this demonstrates otherwise (and no i am not saying lol's is better, I know for a fact it is worse). Take a look at the top of the website. Does it say LoL progaming news - community - team? No. Does it say E-sports news - community - team? No. It's great to support all of e-sports but this is a STARCRAFT website and I would expect many people here to only care about SC. People here aren't obligated to support anything other than SC and I really don't see why that surprises you so much. I blogged here as I play both and TL is generally a lot more respectful than other communities.
If people didn't come to the LoL forum and troll the board about LoL being played instead of SC2 you really shouldn't be upset. There are a lot of people here to enjoy LoL and the fact that it even has its own sub-forum shows its popularity within this community. Why is that not enough? Why do you think every person here has to respect LoL or be okay with it taking up time that could be used for SC2? Keep in mind many here can't commit to watching until midnight or morning (for EU). Having LoL on is just a waste of time for them and (to me) it is understandable that they would want to vent their frustration.
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On October 10 2011 10:22 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:20 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:17 setzer wrote:On October 10 2011 10:11 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:06 AnxiousHippo wrote:
There are 6 streams, 2 main streams. I don't mind LoL, but I don't see why they couldn't have LoL on one stream and SC2 on the other. It doesnt matter what Ign deicded to do with the streams, the sc2 community should not be so hostile towards something different. You's seem to think that yous are the best gaming community but this demonstrates otherwise (and no i am not saying lol's is better, I know for a fact it is worse). Take a look at the top of the website. Does it say LoL progaming news - community - team? No. Does it say E-sports news - community - team? No. It's great to support all of e-sports but this is a STARCRAFT website and I would expect many people here to only care about SC. People here aren't obligated to support anything other than SC and I really don't see why that surprises you so much. I blogged here as I play both and TL is generally a lot more respectful than other communities. You say you blogged here because TL is more respectful than other communities, but you come in here disrespecting. Funny how that works. People have the right to like or dislike anything they want, and they have the right to vocalize those likes and dislikes. You saying that it's a terrible community because they exercise that right to vocalize their likes and dislikes says a lot about you.
I am not arguing against free speech, I am arguing against blatent useless direspect for something that is differernt than what you expected even though it was scheduled to play that way.
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On October 10 2011 10:24 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:20 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:17 setzer wrote:On October 10 2011 10:11 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:06 AnxiousHippo wrote:
There are 6 streams, 2 main streams. I don't mind LoL, but I don't see why they couldn't have LoL on one stream and SC2 on the other. It doesnt matter what Ign deicded to do with the streams, the sc2 community should not be so hostile towards something different. You's seem to think that yous are the best gaming community but this demonstrates otherwise (and no i am not saying lol's is better, I know for a fact it is worse). Take a look at the top of the website. Does it say LoL progaming news - community - team? No. Does it say E-sports news - community - team? No. It's great to support all of e-sports but this is a STARCRAFT website and I would expect many people here to only care about SC. People here aren't obligated to support anything other than SC and I really don't see why that surprises you so much. I blogged here as I play both and TL is generally a lot more respectful than other communities. If people didn't come to the LoL forum and troll the board about LoL being played instead of SC2 you really shouldn't be upset. There are a lot of people here to enjoy LoL and the fact that it even has its own sub-forum shows its popularity within this community. Why is that not enough? Why do you think every person here has to respect LoL or be okay with it taking up time that could be used for SC2? Keep in mind many here can't commit to watching until midnight or morning (for EU). Having LoL on is just a waste of time for them and (to me) it is understandable that they would want to vent their frustration.
Well thats easy, the US is the target audience. There will be a rebroadcast for EU (at least I think there was one when i was watching earlier this week) and I dont understand what the sub forum has to do with anything.
And I never said I was ok with lol taking up time that could have been sc2, I just said you shouldnt hate on it becuase its not what you expected. you got a problem you take it up with the broadcaster IGN, not the game itself.
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I don't like LoL because it is an extremely casual game and only has its eSport status from its popularity from the casual fanbase and a heavy injection of money from Riot, it's not a good competitive game at all and most pros will tell you that. It's good for eSports that Riot is injecting money, I just can't stand the game because when I know I can do exactly what the pros do, that's when a game shouldn't be an eSport imo. I don't hate on it, I wish it wouldn't be on the SC2 stream though.
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honestly i dont mind if dota was up there but LoL? plz that game honestly requires no skill.
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LoL is a ton more fun to play 200000000000000000000% percent. Watching is debatable but i enjoyed watching the semi and the finals.
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I'm not going to explain exactly what I mean, you can PM me if you want, but when SC2 players bash LoL, a lot of the reasons they use make me smile at the dripping hypocrisy.
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I think it was more that IPL claimed that the purpose of putting the LoL finals on both streams was to introduce SC2 fans to high-level LoL play... which is retarded when we're waiting on the second semifinals to be played.
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On October 10 2011 11:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I'm not going to explain exactly what I mean, you can PM me if you want, but when SC2 players bash LoL, a lot of the reasons they use make me smile at the dripping hypocrisy.
No matter how thinly veiled you make your SC2 vs BW comparison, it's still frowned upon by the mods...
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First,the stream chat is full of retarded banther.
Second,they have a stream for LoL,why didnt they stream LoL there?
Third,this already became a Sc2 x LoL thread unfortunately
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I think the majority of complaints were about the scheduling, not LoL itself. People don't like being interrupted so when it happens don't expect everyone to be happy and welcoming of whatever interrupts the flow. You'd get the exact same reaction if the LoL tournament had been cut off for 2 hours to stream the same Starcraft matches twice on two streams.
Edit: Also don't base your opinion of communities around stream chat which everyone knows is full of trolls.
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On October 10 2011 10:51 Ruscour wrote:
it's not a good competitive game at all and most pros will tell you that.
Pros at what? Are you quoting LoL pro's who say that their game sucks? Or pros at some other game, in which case I don't think they have much credibility.
On October 10 2011 10:51 Ruscour wrote:
I just can't stand the game because when I know I can do exactly what the pros do
Why aren't you a progamer yet then?
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Can't believe how elitist some of these comments are. League of legends is a much more popular casual game as well as an esport as there are higher stream numbers for tournaments, so they deserve respect. The game may have less of a learning curve, but it definitely is not a no skill game and the skill ceiling can be just as high as DOTA. The fact that LoL was also the first game to get its own sub-forum on TL.net should make people think twice before attacking the game.
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On October 10 2011 11:52 triangle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:51 Ruscour wrote:
it's not a good competitive game at all and most pros will tell you that. Pros at what? Are you quoting LoL pro's who say that their game sucks? Or pros at some other game, in which case I don't think they have much credibility. Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:51 Ruscour wrote:
I just can't stand the game because when I know I can do exactly what the pros do Why aren't you a progamer yet then?
As far as MOBA games go, LoL is considered the easiest one even by casual players.
My brother has a MOBA website, plays a ton and has a ton of friends that play a ton of MOBAs as well since they run the site together and have a small community and it's pretty much universally agreed that LoL is the easiest one in comparison to the other options.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49433 Posts
On October 10 2011 11:54 calvinL wrote:
Can't believe how elitist some of these comments are. League of legends is a much more popular casual game as well as an esport as there are higher stream numbers for tournaments, so they deserve respect. The game may have less of a learning curve, but it definitely is not a no skill game and the skill ceiling can be just as high as DOTA. The fact that LoL was also the first game to get its own sub-forum on TL.net should make people think twice before attacking the game.
lies,by definition mafia is a game and it had its sub forum for ages.
but yea,no need to shit on LoL,also OP are you really pissed by what the lowest of the low said about LoL?
Lowest of the low being the people who hang around stream chats for such SC2 events.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
On October 10 2011 12:01 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 11:54 calvinL wrote:
Can't believe how elitist some of these comments are. League of legends is a much more popular casual game as well as an esport as there are higher stream numbers for tournaments, so they deserve respect. The game may have less of a learning curve, but it definitely is not a no skill game and the skill ceiling can be just as high as DOTA. The fact that LoL was also the first game to get its own sub-forum on TL.net should make people think twice before attacking the game. lies,by definition mafia is a game and it had its sub forum for ages. but yea,no need to shit on LoL,also OP are you really pissed by what the lowest of the low said about LoL? Lowest of the low being the people who hang around stream chats for such SC2 events.
There's been some rage posting regarding IPL around here that is Youtube-comment quality.
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competitive LoL remind me of competitive world of warcraft arena. basically it's a joke. I can't wait for dota 2 to come out so we never hear about the term competitive LoL again.
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On October 10 2011 12:00 Kurr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 11:52 triangle wrote:On October 10 2011 10:51 Ruscour wrote:
it's not a good competitive game at all and most pros will tell you that. Pros at what? Are you quoting LoL pro's who say that their game sucks? Or pros at some other game, in which case I don't think they have much credibility. On October 10 2011 10:51 Ruscour wrote:
I just can't stand the game because when I know I can do exactly what the pros do Why aren't you a progamer yet then? As far as MOBA games go, LoL is considered the easiest one even by casual players. My brother has a MOBA website, plays a ton and has a ton of friends that play a ton of MOBAs as well since they run the site together and have a small community and it's pretty much universally agreed that LoL is the easiest one in comparison to the other options.
A. That doesn't really respond to either of my comments.
B. I'm not sure why people seem to think more difficult=more competitive. I mean, sepak takraw is way harder than football, but most people wouldn't say it's a "better" game or a more competitive game.
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On October 10 2011 10:31 BordZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:24 setzer wrote:On October 10 2011 10:20 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:17 setzer wrote:On October 10 2011 10:11 BordZ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:06 AnxiousHippo wrote:
There are 6 streams, 2 main streams. I don't mind LoL, but I don't see why they couldn't have LoL on one stream and SC2 on the other. It doesnt matter what Ign deicded to do with the streams, the sc2 community should not be so hostile towards something different. You's seem to think that yous are the best gaming community but this demonstrates otherwise (and no i am not saying lol's is better, I know for a fact it is worse). Take a look at the top of the website. Does it say LoL progaming news - community - team? No. Does it say E-sports news - community - team? No. It's great to support all of e-sports but this is a STARCRAFT website and I would expect many people here to only care about SC. People here aren't obligated to support anything other than SC and I really don't see why that surprises you so much. I blogged here as I play both and TL is generally a lot more respectful than other communities. If people didn't come to the LoL forum and troll the board about LoL being played instead of SC2 you really shouldn't be upset. There are a lot of people here to enjoy LoL and the fact that it even has its own sub-forum shows its popularity within this community. Why is that not enough? Why do you think every person here has to respect LoL or be okay with it taking up time that could be used for SC2? Keep in mind many here can't commit to watching until midnight or morning (for EU). Having LoL on is just a waste of time for them and (to me) it is understandable that they would want to vent their frustration. Well thats easy, the US is the target audience. There will be a rebroadcast for EU (at least I think there was one when i was watching earlier this week) and I dont understand what the sub forum has to do with anything. And I never said I was ok with lol taking up time that could have been sc2, I just said you shouldnt hate on it becuase its not what you expected. you got a problem you take it up with the broadcaster IGN, not the game itself. US isn't target audience, Starcraft and LoL fans are... The subforum shows that TL DOES respect LoL.
You started all this, now you're asking us to take it up with IGN.
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On October 10 2011 11:17 Kurr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 11:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I'm not going to explain exactly what I mean, you can PM me if you want, but when SC2 players bash LoL, a lot of the reasons they use make me smile at the dripping hypocrisy. No matter how thinly veiled you make your SC2 vs BW comparison, it's still frowned upon by the mods...
Don't turn this into what you think is an SC2 vs BW comparison because of what he said; you're the one who views it that way when it could easily be some other reason. It's about people dissatisfied with how they scheduled LoL; and the view of some people that it was "forced" on them. I'd say there's a greater troll proportion among those ranting about it.
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This thread is going places. I feel like the first reply after the OP pretty much exhausts it, but some of the replies after that are pretty funny to read, I'll give you that.
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On October 10 2011 12:01 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 11:54 calvinL wrote:
Can't believe how elitist some of these comments are. League of legends is a much more popular casual game as well as an esport as there are higher stream numbers for tournaments, so they deserve respect. The game may have less of a learning curve, but it definitely is not a no skill game and the skill ceiling can be just as high as DOTA. The fact that LoL was also the first game to get its own sub-forum on TL.net should make people think twice before attacking the game. lies,by definition mafia is a game and it had its sub forum for ages. but yea,no need to shit on LoL,also OP are you really pissed by what the lowest of the low said about LoL? Lowest of the low being the people who hang around stream chats for such SC2 events.
Sorry, didn't specify but I meant the first sub-forum for a competitive video game thats like Starcraft. As I understand it mafia is a forum game.
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On October 10 2011 12:14 Phemtos wrote:
competitive LoL remind me of competitive world of warcraft arena. basically it's a joke. I can't wait for dota 2 to come out so we never hear about the term competitive LoL again.
you know so much about it. you all are experts on it.
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I played broodwar and I remember some kids thought they were the shit at dota so I said "rofl you control one unit with 4 abilities, pretty tough shit there"
but then I hear HoN is easier than that
and LoL is even easier to the point of being completely degenerate at top level play.
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I understand you want to make yourself feel important, but shouldn't complaints about stream chat be directed towards justintv/stream chat? Posting a blog on TL seems like you're just trying to start drama and be the center of attention as the op.
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On October 10 2011 12:43 wxwx wrote:
I understand you want to make yourself feel important, but shouldn't complaints about stream chat be directed towards justintv/stream chat? Posting a blog on TL seems like you're just trying to start drama and be the center of attention as the op.
No it doesn't
this is a real discussion and you are making it meta for no good reason
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On October 10 2011 09:51 BordZ wrote:
The truth of the matter is this, League does actually take a lot of skill to play
Stopped reading there.
User was temp banned for this post.
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The truth is regardless of skill both games a pushing esports in a forward direction and being negative in anyway shape or form is hurting that. Starcraft has always pushed for manner in game its now time to extend that outwards to esports in general.
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So you're mad because a bunch of SC2 fans trolled the stream chat while LoL took over the stream. Even if it was perfectly scheduled it wasnt going to be accepted, stop trying to write an essay to prove people your favorite game is so keewl and they shouldnt hate it, if you love LoL enjoy your stream, your community and dont pay attention to what SC2 fans think...
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edit: nm enough replies in this topic
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First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified.
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are sc2 players really complaining about a game because its too casual and requires no skill?
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On October 10 2011 13:15 coolcrimefighter wrote:
are sc2 players really complaining about a game because its too casual and requires no skill?
BW elitism?
They are complaining that they didn't get to watch (or at least had to wait for a significant portion of time to watch) the two most important games of the tournament because IGN decided they wanted to stream a completely different game for a while, delaying the finals.
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On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified.
I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually.
This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level.
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On October 10 2011 12:14 Phemtos wrote:
competitive LoL remind me of competitive world of warcraft arena. basically it's a joke.
This. Sadly I was a competitive WoW arena player between sc1 and sc2 .
I was just really bothered by how long of a break Lucky had between his match and the finals compared to Stephano who had about a 2 minute break. This occurred as a direct result of the completely poor scheduling of the LoL(aptly named) finals.
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Shoving LoL into my face while I was enjoying sc2 is pretty much like a cameraman zooming on the guy's face during climax in pron. It was really annoying.
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On October 10 2011 14:07 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified. I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually. This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level.
too bad broadwarz didn't take any skill, it was all 1a, you could only select 1 building because that's all you needed to macro off of 5 bases. destiny > savior and july
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On October 10 2011 14:07 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified. I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually. This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level.
LoL has little to no competitive scene compared to Dota 2. Also the depth doesn't say much about the game in it's competitive scene. There are plenty of RTS game that have more depth then SC2/BW, but that doesn't mean they would make a better competitive esport game. Basically LoL is a dumb down version of the original game that lack the real competitive backbone that Dota 2 has. Dota 2 has the Chinese players, the Ukrainian, the Russians who are the real hardcore players that are MUCH more competitive then anybody that play in the LoL scene. Just like SSF4 has the japanese and SC has the koreans hence why the game will never be considered a real esport game especially when dota 2 is out and Riot knows that.
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There was just a tournament in china with multiple good chinese teams in it, one was in the finals. There are multiple professional LoL teams.
I don't actually know how big the pro dota scene is but that shit has been out for like 9 years or something and LoL has been around for what? 2? if that?
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On October 10 2011 14:50 travis wrote:
There was just a tournament in china with multiple good chinese teams in it, one was in the finals. There are multiple professional LoL teams.
I don't actually know how big the pro dota scene is but that shit has been out for like 9 years or something and LoL has been around for what? 2? if that?
I'm sure some of these teams might be playing LoL for now but I can guarantee you that they will all be playing Dota 2 when it's finally released.
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oh well I don't know anything about that, but if you're guaranteeing it then ok
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On October 10 2011 13:15 coolcrimefighter wrote:
are sc2 players really complaining about a game because its too casual and requires no skill?
I personally find it very boring to watch, most of the time you are watching people just farm. It's just somewhat bad from a spectators point of view.
And yes I have played alot of LoL. I do it when I want a break from sc2 and can take things less seriously.
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On October 10 2011 14:46 Phemtos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 14:07 travis wrote:On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified. I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually. This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level. LoL has little to no competitive scene compared to Dota 2. Also the depth doesn't say much about the game in it's competitive scene. There are plenty of RTS game that have more depth then SC2/BW, but that doesn't mean they would make a better competitive esport game. Basically LoL is a dumb down version of the original game that lack the real competitive backbone that Dota 2 has. Dota 2 has the Chinese players, the Ukrainian, the Russians who are the real hardcore players that are MUCH more competitive then anybody that play in the LoL scene. Just like SSF4 has the japanese and SC has the koreans hence why the game will never be considered a real esport game especially when dota 2 is out and Riot knows that.
At IEM in China this year more people went to watch LoL than SC2. If viewers are not the backbone of an esports nothing is.
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On October 10 2011 15:11 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 14:46 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 14:07 travis wrote:On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified. I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually. This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level. LoL has little to no competitive scene compared to Dota 2. Also the depth doesn't say much about the game in it's competitive scene. There are plenty of RTS game that have more depth then SC2/BW, but that doesn't mean they would make a better competitive esport game. Basically LoL is a dumb down version of the original game that lack the real competitive backbone that Dota 2 has. Dota 2 has the Chinese players, the Ukrainian, the Russians who are the real hardcore players that are MUCH more competitive then anybody that play in the LoL scene. Just like SSF4 has the japanese and SC has the koreans hence why the game will never be considered a real esport game especially when dota 2 is out and Riot knows that. At IEM in China this year more people went to watch LoL than SC2. If viewers are not the backbone of an esports nothing is.
Did you not read what I said? MOBA is huge in China. LoL was the only moba game at IEM china so obviously people went to watch that. But guess what these same people will be watching next year over LoL? Dota 2. Also they still don't have that backbone competitive scene that I am talking about. I never said anything about their viewership. I know LoL bring alot of numbers but Dota 2 bring even more.
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DjWheat (or maybe it was SirScoots?) at the LiveOnThree yesterday made the point of mentioning that Fighting Games in particular have a lot of events together. MvC3, SSF4ae,Tekken 6, etc etc etc
I think it's time to stop complaining like children just because something isn't entirely focused on sc2. There are plenty and plenty of streams and tournies that cater only to sc2 fans. Watch those if you get so easily miffed at seeing any game other than sc2.
If you give the game a chance and you don't like it, that's fine. But bitching and complaining only makes the sc2 community look like children.
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On October 10 2011 13:15 coolcrimefighter wrote:
are sc2 players really complaining about a game because its too casual and requires no skill?
its quite ironic. History repeats itself
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On October 10 2011 13:36 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 13:15 coolcrimefighter wrote:
are sc2 players really complaining about a game because its too casual and requires no skill? BW elitism?
StarCraft players are willing to argue over whether StarCraft should be an esport due to the presence or lack thereof of the number 2.
If we can't even tolerate ourselves, how can you expect us to tolerate someone else?
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I agree entirely with the OP. It just shows off a level of immaturity and stupidity to other gaming communities.
If you were surprised that LoL was on the line-up to be shown in between the games, then that's your fault for not checking the schedule. Everyone was put on notice regarding that.
If you don't agree with IGN scheduling the event the way it did, then that is perfectly fine. There are proper channels to voice your complains regarding that.
Talking shit to other gaming communities? Nah. We don't need asshats mouthing off to other people about how SC2 > all. And if you want to be the rebellious kind and say, "fuck that, I can say whatever I want whenever I want.". Great! You still look like a jackass.
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On October 10 2011 15:29 Phemtos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 15:11 Eppa! wrote:On October 10 2011 14:46 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 14:07 travis wrote:On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified. I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually. This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level. LoL has little to no competitive scene compared to Dota 2. Also the depth doesn't say much about the game in it's competitive scene. There are plenty of RTS game that have more depth then SC2/BW, but that doesn't mean they would make a better competitive esport game. Basically LoL is a dumb down version of the original game that lack the real competitive backbone that Dota 2 has. Dota 2 has the Chinese players, the Ukrainian, the Russians who are the real hardcore players that are MUCH more competitive then anybody that play in the LoL scene. Just like SSF4 has the japanese and SC has the koreans hence why the game will never be considered a real esport game especially when dota 2 is out and Riot knows that. At IEM in China this year more people went to watch LoL than SC2. If viewers are not the backbone of an esports nothing is. Did you not read what I said? MOBA is huge in China. LoL was the only moba game at IEM china so obviously people went to watch that. But guess what these same people will be watching next year over LoL? Dota 2. Also they still don't have that backbone competitive scene that I am talking about. I never said anything about their viewership. I know LoL bring alot of numbers but Dota 2 bring even more.
So Chines people went to IEM then chose lol rather than seeing lol being played at IEM then going to watch it?
What is this so called competitive backbone? History? Does that make it impossible to coexist? Just because football has more history means that american football can't exist.
Also arguably the key factor of a game is its popularity. Not how hardcore it is. What people need to understand is what makes this history which is:
1. Replayability
2. Access
DotA was free
BW was free
CS 1.6 was free
Fighters where available in arcades
Maybe you are right. SC2 and LoL have no right to call themselves ESPORTS as they do not have the "competitive backbone" of BW and DotA.
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On October 10 2011 16:05 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 15:29 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 15:11 Eppa! wrote:On October 10 2011 14:46 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 14:07 travis wrote:On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified. I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually. This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level. LoL has little to no competitive scene compared to Dota 2. Also the depth doesn't say much about the game in it's competitive scene. There are plenty of RTS game that have more depth then SC2/BW, but that doesn't mean they would make a better competitive esport game. Basically LoL is a dumb down version of the original game that lack the real competitive backbone that Dota 2 has. Dota 2 has the Chinese players, the Ukrainian, the Russians who are the real hardcore players that are MUCH more competitive then anybody that play in the LoL scene. Just like SSF4 has the japanese and SC has the koreans hence why the game will never be considered a real esport game especially when dota 2 is out and Riot knows that. At IEM in China this year more people went to watch LoL than SC2. If viewers are not the backbone of an esports nothing is. Did you not read what I said? MOBA is huge in China. LoL was the only moba game at IEM china so obviously people went to watch that. But guess what these same people will be watching next year over LoL? Dota 2. Also they still don't have that backbone competitive scene that I am talking about. I never said anything about their viewership. I know LoL bring alot of numbers but Dota 2 bring even more. So Chines people went to IEM then chose lol rather than seeing lol being played at IEM then going to watch it? What is this so called competitive backbone? History? Does that make it impossible to coexist? Just because football has more history means that american football can't exist. Also arguably the key factor of a game is its popularity. Not how hardcore it is. What people need to understand is what makes this history which is: 1. Replayability 2. Access DotA was free BW was free CS 1.6 was free Fighters where available in arcades Maybe you are right. SC2 and LoL have no right to call themselves ESPORTS as they do not have the "competitive backbone" of BW and DotA.
Wait... BW was free? Somebody stole my money then. Curse you Blizzard.
In all seriousness, iCCup, WGT, PGT, etc. were all illegal and if BW wasn't so old and dead (outside of Korea) by the time they rolled around Blizzard would've done something about it. I was actually surprised that Blizzard did nothing about iCCup when they went after KeSPA.
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On October 10 2011 16:05 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 15:29 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 15:11 Eppa! wrote:On October 10 2011 14:46 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 14:07 travis wrote:On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified. I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually. This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level. LoL has little to no competitive scene compared to Dota 2. Also the depth doesn't say much about the game in it's competitive scene. There are plenty of RTS game that have more depth then SC2/BW, but that doesn't mean they would make a better competitive esport game. Basically LoL is a dumb down version of the original game that lack the real competitive backbone that Dota 2 has. Dota 2 has the Chinese players, the Ukrainian, the Russians who are the real hardcore players that are MUCH more competitive then anybody that play in the LoL scene. Just like SSF4 has the japanese and SC has the koreans hence why the game will never be considered a real esport game especially when dota 2 is out and Riot knows that. At IEM in China this year more people went to watch LoL than SC2. If viewers are not the backbone of an esports nothing is. Did you not read what I said? MOBA is huge in China. LoL was the only moba game at IEM china so obviously people went to watch that. But guess what these same people will be watching next year over LoL? Dota 2. Also they still don't have that backbone competitive scene that I am talking about. I never said anything about their viewership. I know LoL bring alot of numbers but Dota 2 bring even more. So Chines people went to IEM then chose lol rather than seeing lol being played at IEM then going to watch it? What is this so called competitive backbone? History? Does that make it impossible to coexist? Just because football has more history means that american football can't exist. Also arguably the key factor of a game is its popularity. Dota is a very hardcore game LoL is too since you have the same factors on your game play as the other team. What people need to understand is what makes this history which is: 1. Replayability 2. Access DotA was free BW was free CS 1.6 was free Fighters where available in arcades Maybe you are right. SC2 and LoL have no right to call themselves ESPORTS as they do not have the "competitive backbone" of BW and DotA.
I never said SC2 has no competitive backbone. I said LoL had none and as you can see the moba games community won't be coexisting together for a while like the fighting game community does and that is assuming it does at all. Also LoL is not a hardcore game neither is Dota. CS 1.6, Quake, Street Fighter, and BW and SC2 to an extent are hardcore game. Now onto my next point, the main reason why LoL is so popular is because the game has been free since it's release, not because the MOBA fanbase was already this huge(China aside) and all decided to play LoL. Most people that play LoL know nothing of Dota history esport wise because they are casual players. Now like I said the reason why Dota 2 will be a sucessful and established esport and LoL won't have already been stated so I won't bother with that.
One last thing, the replayability and access to a game simply does not make it a competitive esport game, yes it might make it more popular but that doesn't mean the game is spectator friendly, it doesn't mean the game is balanced enough to be played competitively. Also none of the game you stated were free at release especially not DotA since you needed to buy two games to play the latest version.
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Well this has been derailed.
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On October 10 2011 13:15 coolcrimefighter wrote:
are sc2 players really complaining about a game because its too casual and requires no skill?
the irony that this post points out is hilarious....because it's so true.
It accomplishes nothing but demonstrating their own foolishness.
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On October 10 2011 16:17 bokchoi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 16:05 Eppa! wrote:On October 10 2011 15:29 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 15:11 Eppa! wrote:On October 10 2011 14:46 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 14:07 travis wrote:On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified. I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually. This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level. LoL has little to no competitive scene compared to Dota 2. Also the depth doesn't say much about the game in it's competitive scene. There are plenty of RTS game that have more depth then SC2/BW, but that doesn't mean they would make a better competitive esport game. Basically LoL is a dumb down version of the original game that lack the real competitive backbone that Dota 2 has. Dota 2 has the Chinese players, the Ukrainian, the Russians who are the real hardcore players that are MUCH more competitive then anybody that play in the LoL scene. Just like SSF4 has the japanese and SC has the koreans hence why the game will never be considered a real esport game especially when dota 2 is out and Riot knows that. At IEM in China this year more people went to watch LoL than SC2. If viewers are not the backbone of an esports nothing is. Did you not read what I said? MOBA is huge in China. LoL was the only moba game at IEM china so obviously people went to watch that. But guess what these same people will be watching next year over LoL? Dota 2. Also they still don't have that backbone competitive scene that I am talking about. I never said anything about their viewership. I know LoL bring alot of numbers but Dota 2 bring even more. So Chines people went to IEM then chose lol rather than seeing lol being played at IEM then going to watch it? What is this so called competitive backbone? History? Does that make it impossible to coexist? Just because football has more history means that american football can't exist. Also arguably the key factor of a game is its popularity. Not how hardcore it is. What people need to understand is what makes this history which is: 1. Replayability 2. Access DotA was free BW was free CS 1.6 was free Fighters where available in arcades Maybe you are right. SC2 and LoL have no right to call themselves ESPORTS as they do not have the "competitive backbone" of BW and DotA. Wait... BW was free? Somebody stole my money then. Curse you Blizzard. In all seriousness, iCCup, WGT, PGT, etc. were all illegal and if BW wasn't so old and dead (outside of Korea) by the time they rolled around Blizzard would've done something about it. I was actually surprised that Blizzard did nothing about iCCup when they went after KeSPA.
Does iCCup make a profit? (I actually don't know, elucidate me :p)
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tbh its hard to take LoL seriously as an esport when riot literally has to pay tournament organizers to show their game. On top of that there is no spectator support for LoL, which on top of their server stability and balance issues just kills it. Did you know that mlg had LoL last time, but they had technical issues with LoL almost the entire time.
I don't see LoL becoming anything interesting. Every single game of LoL that I've watched is just one long farm fest. All the objectives on the map combined with the fact that there are very few mobility options means late game you just roam the map as a team to get buffs and occasionally split up to split push. The ward game is really simplified because of super cheap oracles. There's no deviation from the 2-2-1 jungle laning set up. Free blink means you are much safer against ganks, contributing to the farm focused gameplay.
Its not a matter of how accessibility or skill. Its a matter of deep design flaws as well as technical flaws that make the game impossible to watch.
More on topic: Never take anything you read in stream chats seriously. The worst scum of the earth can be found there. A few trolls mouthing off indicates nothing about the opinions of the majority of community members, who probably don't give a fuck.
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Not to be mean here, but shouldn't be a blog about something personal?
This feels lika a low-effort rant about the "SC2 and LoL" issue, hence this really weird... discussion...
We are not going to solve this problem as there is actually no basis at all for a kind of "objective" discussion about the issue(that is, more or less, both communities being pretty stubborn.)
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the IPL this weekend was a little like tuning in for a great football match and then 3/4s of the way though, right before the climax of the match they cut to a 3 hour volleyball game instead... its true they are similar games, but they are for different people with different tastes and I'd expect football fans to react in a similar way.
anyone knows, who's idea was it to show the LoL?
In regard to the disappointing feedback, We are the consumers of the 'product' and we were providing IPL priceless feedback by voicing how we feel, to block the chat was like saying 'we dont care how you feel you should should be greatful and enjoy what we give you' ....it was a mistake, hope they fix it and do wonder how it effects future viewers.
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On October 10 2011 16:23 Phemtos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 16:05 Eppa! wrote:On October 10 2011 15:29 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 15:11 Eppa! wrote:On October 10 2011 14:46 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 14:07 travis wrote:On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified. I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually. This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level. LoL has little to no competitive scene compared to Dota 2. Also the depth doesn't say much about the game in it's competitive scene. There are plenty of RTS game that have more depth then SC2/BW, but that doesn't mean they would make a better competitive esport game. Basically LoL is a dumb down version of the original game that lack the real competitive backbone that Dota 2 has. Dota 2 has the Chinese players, the Ukrainian, the Russians who are the real hardcore players that are MUCH more competitive then anybody that play in the LoL scene. Just like SSF4 has the japanese and SC has the koreans hence why the game will never be considered a real esport game especially when dota 2 is out and Riot knows that. At IEM in China this year more people went to watch LoL than SC2. If viewers are not the backbone of an esports nothing is. Did you not read what I said? MOBA is huge in China. LoL was the only moba game at IEM china so obviously people went to watch that. But guess what these same people will be watching next year over LoL? Dota 2. Also they still don't have that backbone competitive scene that I am talking about. I never said anything about their viewership. I know LoL bring alot of numbers but Dota 2 bring even more. So Chines people went to IEM then chose lol rather than seeing lol being played at IEM then going to watch it? What is this so called competitive backbone? History? Does that make it impossible to coexist? Just because football has more history means that american football can't exist. Also arguably the key factor of a game is its popularity. Dota is a very hardcore game LoL is too since you have the same factors on your game play as the other team. What people need to understand is what makes this history which is: 1. Replayability 2. Access DotA was free BW was free CS 1.6 was free Fighters where available in arcades Maybe you are right. SC2 and LoL have no right to call themselves ESPORTS as they do not have the "competitive backbone" of BW and DotA. I never said SC2 has no competitive backbone. I said LoL had none and as you can see the moba games community won't be coexisting together for a while like the fighting game community does and that is assuming it does at all. Also LoL is not a hardcore game neither is Dota. CS 1.6, Quake, Street Fighter, and BW and SC2 to an extent are hardcore game. Now onto my next point, the main reason why LoL is so popular is because the game has been free since it's release, not because the MOBA fanbase was already this huge(China aside) and all decided to play LoL. Most people that play LoL know nothing of Dota history esport wise because they are casual players. Now like I said the reason why Dota 2 will be a sucessful and established esport and LoL won't have already been stated so I won't bother with that. One last thing, the replayability and access to a game simply does not make it a competitive esport game, yes it might make it more popular but that doesn't mean the game is spectator friendly, it doesn't mean the game is balanced enough to be played competitively. Also none of the game you stated were free at release especially not DotA since you needed to buy two games to play the latest version.
You need to explain somethings:
1. What makes a hardcore game?
2. Whenever I see people complain about balance in LoL it is completely unjustified. SF4 had Sagat, SC2 has Terran, BW has Terran according to the highest level LoL player (hotshotgg) said that the most imba champs in LoL is Zilean and Galio by a small margin( if you play LoL this statement is mind boggling). Depth is silly to use in the context of a mirror game like LoL (or give a solid example rather than gameplay mechanics you dislike).
3. What is a competitive backbone? Was BW born with it?
When it comes to watchability CS is terrible, DotA is hell.
The Free statement is misleading I meant to say in Sweden if you go to a PC bang you will always have cs 1.6, WC3, BW, LoL, SC2. I Doubt there is much difference in other countries.
On October 10 2011 16:53 KeksX wrote:
Not to be mean here, but shouldn't be a blog about something personal?
This feels lika a low-effort rant about the "SC2 and LoL" issue, hence this really weird... discussion...
We are not going to solve this problem as there is actually no basis at all for a kind of "objective" discussion about the issue(that is, more or less, both communities being pretty stubborn.)
Bingo.
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On October 10 2011 13:15 coolcrimefighter wrote:
are sc2 players really complaining about a game because its too casual and requires no skill?
Are BW players still bitter and mad about SC2?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49433 Posts
On October 11 2011 00:25 Sandro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 13:15 coolcrimefighter wrote:
are sc2 players really complaining about a game because its too casual and requires no skill? Are BW players still bitter and mad about SC2?
nope.
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On October 11 2011 00:25 Sandro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 13:15 coolcrimefighter wrote:
are sc2 players really complaining about a game because its too casual and requires no skill? Are BW players still bitter and mad about SC2?
last i recall, all the scrubs went to sc2 and no one noteworthy......
/trolling
but seriously, bw players/fans were never bitter of sc2 lol :[
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United States2822 Posts
They DID stream LoL on the second stream, by the way. LoL was simultaneously broadcast on the Caesar's and Bally's stream, and the reason was because IPL wanted to introduce LoL to the SC2 scene.
Regardless of what the SC2 community thinks, IPL as an organization seeks to grow e-Sports. Not just SC2.
Even if 5 million SC2 fans hated what happened, if IPL managed to get one SC2 fan to look at LoL and say "Hmm, that seems interesting. I might watch that or play that," then it was a success to them.
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On October 10 2011 16:23 Phemtos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 16:05 Eppa! wrote:On October 10 2011 15:29 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 15:11 Eppa! wrote:On October 10 2011 14:46 Phemtos wrote:On October 10 2011 14:07 travis wrote:On October 10 2011 13:07 CaptainPlatypus wrote:
First of all, the complaints were mainly about scheduling and (later) lag, not LoL itself. Secondly, no offense to competitive LoL players, but it really doesn't involve as much skill as other competitive games. It has less depth (and balance) than SC2, than DotA, than Street Fighter, than just about any ESPORT, and that's somewhat by design. So while I agree with you that the community's attitude was pretty bad, and that's regrettable and worthy of discussion, I think the "and it's totally unjustified" half of the statement you're making is, well, totally unjustified. I don't know why im arguing this but you're completely wrong. How much skill it takes to be good at something that involves direct competition with an opponent is based upon the skill of your opponents. And LoL has plenty of depth anyways, actually. This is coming from someone who has played lots of LoL, played sc2 at a fairly high level, and played BROODWAR at a very high level. LoL has little to no competitive scene compared to Dota 2. Also the depth doesn't say much about the game in it's competitive scene. There are plenty of RTS game that have more depth then SC2/BW, but that doesn't mean they would make a better competitive esport game. Basically LoL is a dumb down version of the original game that lack the real competitive backbone that Dota 2 has. Dota 2 has the Chinese players, the Ukrainian, the Russians who are the real hardcore players that are MUCH more competitive then anybody that play in the LoL scene. Just like SSF4 has the japanese and SC has the koreans hence why the game will never be considered a real esport game especially when dota 2 is out and Riot knows that. At IEM in China this year more people went to watch LoL than SC2. If viewers are not the backbone of an esports nothing is. Did you not read what I said? MOBA is huge in China. LoL was the only moba game at IEM china so obviously people went to watch that. But guess what these same people will be watching next year over LoL? Dota 2. Also they still don't have that backbone competitive scene that I am talking about. I never said anything about their viewership. I know LoL bring alot of numbers but Dota 2 bring even more. So Chines people went to IEM then chose lol rather than seeing lol being played at IEM then going to watch it? I never said SC2 has no competitive backbone. I said LoL had none and as you can see the moba games community won't be coexisting together for a while like the fighting game community does and that is assuming it does at all.
it = what community are you referring to?
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+ Show Spoiler +I just wanted to say that I am very dissapointed in the LOL community. The reception they gave the SC2 on the IPL stream on justin.tv is just terrible, only being worse at the HON Incident. IPL has advertised that SC2 would be broadcast in their stream at specific times but still the chat and even the IPL thread here was full of people saying things like;
"SC2 is destroying esports"
"SC2 takes no skill"
"its just for casuals"
"wtf where is LOL"
etc etc
Basically the collective message was we are spolit brats and give us what we want.
The truth of the matter is this, SC2 does actually take a lot of skill to play, no it doesnt take the same type of skill as LOL as it is a different game and in its own genre. but it takes teamwork which sc2 completely lacks, just as much map awareness and essentially good macro in the sense of last hitting, defending and pusing towers, harrassing etc etc that the best of the best do.
Casuals are what makes up both communities and are what drives the growth of esports. If casuals didnt come pla both games and expand the userbase of both games there would be no pro scene as it simpy would not be profitable in any way shape or form.
If you actually go read the event schedule you would have seen that SC2 was to be broadcast at these times, you do no have a leg to stand on when you demand that they close the stream to put SC2 on.
Both games contain complexity for newcomers, LoL has something like 70 heroes and SC2 has something like 30 different units (can't remember the specific number of either). This introduces a large learning curve on anyone who isnt familiar with either games as they have no idea what heroes or units do. So when you say that SC2 isnt good to watch becuase there is to much going on, remember LOL has just as much going on.
I really want to expand on this further but I have my final year uni project to continue to work on. I think I have got the basic points out of the way.
Am I doing it right?
Really complaining about the SC2 community is like complaining about any other community, a group of people do not make up the whole community. The vocal minority are not the silent majority. Taking stream chat seriously is your first mistake, and taking a LR thread as a serious gauge is also questionable. Just do what I do and just watch the stream, stay out of chat and usually avoid the LR thread.
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There was enough overlap in interest that casting both at the same time would have been a mistake on IPL's part.
Some people are just impatient and selfish. Some people are just mean idiots; they're the same people that shit all over halo and every other game because it's not starcraft therefore it's not a real sport. Instead of embracing esports as a whole they'd rather hold back the community. They use the argument, "It's like if you were watching football and all of a sudden they switched to soccer". no. It'd be like not showing two football "Bowls" at the same time. Like it or not, hopefully eventually people will understand and accept that SC2 is part of esports, not esports all by itself. It's not big enough to be it's own thing yet, and it never will be while the community kills itself and eachother.
It was nice of IPL to cast them separately for the sake of not having overlap. And you get the selfish people that say, "well LOL finals should have had to wait"; they picked one. Would it really be any more fair for THEM to have to wait till ____ in the morning? But that's just some people.
Try not to let it lead you to hating the community as a whole. There are genuine idiots and douche bags but most of the people are actually nice and helpful and positive, from what i've seen and hope for anyway.
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EPT
