|
1264 Posts
Warning! Before you read, you must be forewarned that I am the SHITTIEST TvP player EVER!
Also as a bit of a warning, this blog post is not going to be very good, it is a culmination of my rage for the past month and all the questions bouncing in my head.
Edit #1: Uhm, I think you need to right click and go to image URL, because only half the image seems to be loading.
God damn, every time I get this matchup on the ladder I feel like crying. TvP went from the easiest matchup in Diamond, with a 75% win rate, to the WORST matchup for me, with a whopping 0.05% win rate (adding in practise games.) I don't understand what I am doing wrong. TvT and TvZ are fine, I ENJOY playing those matchups, however TvP is a daunting task that I am never able to do. Laddering is out of the question as I don't feel like I could justifiably be demoted to Diamond after losing 10 TvPs in a row and doing quite well in TvZ and TvT. I can't even hold down a good Protoss practise partner as they get bored of punching my face in to a pulp, or they get angry when they lose to the few builds of mine that work. I guess the builds that do win me games are pretty gimmicky.
Why is it that no matter what my army can not kill the Protoss army past the 7 minute mark?
Why is it that I can have a 40 harvester lead, 25-65 and still lose. Why do I need to pull all my scvs to repair 5 bunkers to hold off an immortal all-in? Why does my 3-3 Marauder Medic army lose to 0-0 mass zealot with like 5 stalkers and an archon? Why do I need to do a gimmick marauder expand to do any economic damage to the protoss player?
+ Show Spoiler +
This never happens to the pros. This never happens to my friends. It doesn't even happen to players who are WAY worse than me at this game. So why does it happen to me? WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?
What separates everyone from Bomber? Why do all the Terrans need to 1 base or do the 1-1-1 to beat a Protoss except for him? What is his secret to TvP, and what is his secret to beating DongRaeGu (mentioned in the Milkis blog about some MLG.)
How come slayers_dragon can do a drop in every TvP, but not me. Why do his drops kill 20 probes and mine die before they damage the shield of a probe?
How do you kill 75 supply worth of zealots under guardian shield?
What are the small secrets not aforementioned by Day[9] and Artosis? Screw you Tasteless, when I watch the stream you make me think of a Diamond player regurgitating the things Artosis taught you about the game.
Make ghosts they say! Get more upgrades! Do better drops! Pressure pressure pressure! Macro macro macro! Micro micro micro! MARAUDERS ARE OP.
HOW? HOW? HOW? HOW? I have been smashing my head against the wall here, trying to do everything recommended to me yet to no avail. My ghosts can't hit everything
Then I meet a player. Top 8 masters. Claims to have played against the best of the best on Korean ladder. This is it! This is my chance to meet the best protoss player I will ever meet and perhaps learn to play the matchup. Where is he weak, what makes protoss uncomfortable, how do you hold off certain attacks? The result of our few games?
+ Show Spoiler +
You know what? I won't all-in protoss phantaxx, cuz that doesn't work either. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=270187
The worst feeling is when you meet a Protoss who says their PvT is their worst matchup. And then they crush you. No contest, no re-game, just you in your stink of shame that you are the worst player in this matchup at your level in the entire community you have been exposed to so far.
+ Show Spoiler +
Why is this part so hard Jesus why? How many bases, probes, and gateways must I kill to cripple the Protoss army enough to win the game? When I reaper expand and my reaper kills 19 probes, why do I still lose to a 3 gate push?
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13797
I beseach you Teamliquid. Don't tell me why I suck. Don't tell me what my mistakes were and leave it at that. Tell me EXACTLY how to fix them, because I seem to be doing something wrong.
P.S. I'm sorry to the people who hate rage posts. I had to let it out because playing the actual game and practising has been yielding no fruit.
Now to eat some gulash.
I am listening to Ratatat - Tropicana
 
|
I think you should mess around a little with pressure. I think your at a slump and you should use this time to experiment with things. Everyone has to experience this to grow you know. Don't be afraid of going crazy with builds. in example you dont drop often? I think its time to go mma style.
|
|
|
you should get a better mindset first.
|
1264 Posts
On October 01 2011 10:12 jimmyjingle wrote:
Canadians are so polite!
I wasn't being polite. Perhaps I'm just failing to hear the sarcasm through your visual representation of speech.
|
I gotta say I'm in your position but switch races. I just can not understand the mu and its driving me nuts. we could get together and practice being bad! lol... but seriously imo make more production facilities and out macro x10 if you can manage to get such a huge econ advantage. FGOmniEulogy.751 if you feel up for the task. I seriously wouldn't mind. 
Edit: I also found this to be one of the nicest rage posts I've ever read. very well mannered through the entire thing hahaha
|
OP, I am honestly in the exact same situation as you. I can hold my own in TvT and TvZ but I lose like 90% of TvP if I go standard bio instead of a 1-1-1 all in. I've lost so many games where I'm up like 30-40 supply and even once when I was up 90 supply. Whenever me and my opp. are just sitting there maxed, I already have the feeling that I've lost in my head. I just suck so bad at engaging protoss army.
|
Funny I feel exactly the same thing as a P user facing T. The amount of T all-ins Ive experienced you think would make me good at deflecting it, but like the P in your post, if they all-in 9/10 I can't stop it, yet if they go for macro, off say 1 or 2 rax, my norm build takes advantage of that and gets a earlier safer expo...yet the amount of Ts i run into that actually macro are slim to none. Maybe we could play together? Are you on Kor/US?
|
1264 Posts
I am on US server, and I NEVER all-in unless Protoss does a build that begs for it to happen.
|
I'll give a few comments on the daybreak game:
Your opening is silly, just doesn't even make sense, if you'd just taken the gassless command center you would have been ahead to his 1 gate 1 gas, with the pressure you put yourself behind, well behind, even with the probe kills his expansion is already sitting there at his natural mining and producing probes while yours is 3-4 minutes late, he then takes a worker AND income lead I can understand if vs Nexus first, but against gas + 1 gate, he's going to have stalkers in a very timely fashion.
Then the common theme for me is the overvaluing of marauders to the detriment of everything else, while you want to end up with mostly marauders when the aoe starts flying, marines let you cut corners gas wise especially in the early game in order to facilitate more upgrades, faster tech etc. You didn't even get combat shield for instance, 0 of your barracks have reactors. Marines are good, 2 marines do more dps than a marauder even against armored targets, they also do significantly better vs zealots and immortals which seem to be giving you problems, their main weaknesses (their low base health and range) are made up for in the early game by bunkers and they become almost expendable in the mid game when you use them for drops, try getting only 1 marauder before star port next time and throw up an engineering bay significantly earlier to start +1 and you'll be surprised how much of a better position you're in.
You set up a third based on the fact that he's going to be pinned by your drop, but you keep most of your army in bunkers at home which is kind of a middle of the road/nothing play, take your watch tower at least then you can be a bit more mobile around the map, you can always retreat with stim.
Your drop killed the third which was sloppy of your opponent, but the idea of the drop is that you can retreat, there was really no reason to drop that third as it's already easy to retreat from, you should have poked in with a normal attack to the third and dropped the main at the same time to ascertain his tech and upgrade situation potentially crippling it. You seem to get it late on in the game, but the mid game drop is one of your best bets for information gathering if you wanted to save scans. You throw down 2 engineering bays in reaction to seeing his upgrades but it's too late, you never hit +2 before he ended the game.
The rest of the game is just the continuation of these problems and the inevitable conclusion, despite crippling him he still has an army of well upgraded zealots, archons, immortals and sentries all of which are amazing against marauders while you have 90% marauders with worse upgrades, the economic damage only really matters in the long term, the army matters in the short term and his army when you lose the final battle is better, if you'd fallen back to your bunkers sooner and repaired them you probably would have won in the long haul because he can't really remake that army not that it's much consolation.
Ghosts definitely would have flattened the sentries, immortals and archons as well as helped against the zealots, but they're too late, you should attempt to start the ghost academy once you see a twilight council as that should give you enough leeway.
Hope this helps, I am by no means a TvP expert.
|
1264 Posts
ty Dingobloo, you have singlehandedly become the most helpful poster to my "help" threads ever.
|
On October 01 2011 10:24 Thaniri wrote:I wasn't being polite. Perhaps I'm just failing to hear the sarcasm through your visual representation of speech.
even when you think you're not being polite you are being polite @_@
|
1264 Posts
On October 01 2011 13:34 jimmyjingle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 10:24 Thaniri wrote:On October 01 2011 10:12 jimmyjingle wrote:
Canadians are so polite! I wasn't being polite. Perhaps I'm just failing to hear the sarcasm through your visual representation of speech. even when you think you're not being polite you are being polite @_@
So. Alright. I get it. You post here to call me polite. Thanks?
|
I found this thread via Google search ... because I thought it was only me having problems in this matchup. Everyone says that Terran has the strongest early game (which they may be right) but I have the hardest time punishing anything Protoss does early game. I had a match earlier today where Protoss went 15 Nexus ... I went immediate three rax as I saw him throw it down and they were still able to defend with only losing 6 probes (I also pulled some SCV's) ... damn Zealots.
Late game ... no chance at victory there ... I cannot manage to attack, spread units, manage vikings, and EMP all at the same time while it appears they just 1A.
Anyhow, that is my rant and let it be known, your not the only one! Good luck in learning this matchup, sounds like we both need some.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/warrockdot/Screenshot2011-09-3017_13_24.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/warrockdot/Screenshot2011-09-2116_56_36.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/warrockdot/Screenshot2011-09-3017_42_34.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/warrockdot/Screenshot2011-09-3017_42_59.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/warrockdot/Screenshot2011-09-3017_44_53.jpg)
