• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:50
CEST 12:50
KST 19:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates8GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th12Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I made an ASL quiz
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 1
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 24061 users

Searching for Bobby sAviOr - Page 9

Blogs > whatthefat
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 13 Next All
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
October 01 2011 17:31 GMT
#161
Great article.

5/5 given
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-01 17:52:35
October 01 2011 17:39 GMT
#162
On October 01 2011 18:10 fyyer wrote:
The blog layout was good, and the amount of work put into it was good as well. I think the comparisons are pretty laughable though. For example

Fischer dedicated his whole life to Chess, even after he "retired", he was still studying tournament games and trying to find improvements in people's games. He was obsessed. Bobby Fischer hated the collusion (calling it outright cheating) the Soviets were doing when they would agree to short draws with each other. Fischer was also arguably the best ever at Blitz Chess (fast chess). Savior on the other hand is a slow APM BW player, and was proven to collude with other Koreans for profit. If Fischer himself would have played BW, he would have hated Savior.

What Botvinnik brought to the table was the idea of serious game preparation before a match. Before Botvinnik, home preparation was an after-thought, post Botvinnik it was taken very seriously. I don't recall July ever being known for studying his opponents and preparing accordingly.

Karpov was a slow "constricting" positional Chess player, Jaedong is a wildly aggressive BW player. The only relation Jaedong and Flash have with their respective chess players you assigned them to is Jaedong is always #2 behind Flash, just like Karpov was always #2 behind Kasparov.

Morphy completely dominated EVERYONE during his days. He was also the most well versed in openings for his era. He literally couldn't be stopped while he played. USA couldn't stop him and when he went to Europe to challenge their best, they couldn't stop him. He was so good compared to his peers infact, that he at a certain point refused to play anyone unless he was given a handicap (usually by starting the game a pawn or knight down). Grrr.... massed carriers.


I could go on and on, but since you added this disclaimer, I guess it's alright:

Show nested quote +
I decided to write a mostly non-serious account of their respective histories and the intertwined stories of their greatest players



I think these comparisons minimize the amount of studying and preparation Chess players do. There is so much more effort involved with far less gains. In general though, good effort.


Jaedong isn't that aggressive when you compare him to players like Shine, Eff0rt or Kwanro. He is more I should say, opportunistic and spontaneous.

Flash is one of the Terrans that does not play a slow constricting style, he is actually extremely aggressive and will always try to end games whenever the opportunity arises. Compare this to Fantasy who constricts the player through-out the whole game setting up early contains and dropping like crazy until the player has no economy left, that's a constrictive style. Flash almost never does contains, he just moves out and obliterates everything as fast as he can.

If Flash isn't cheesing, he is making extremely aggressive expansions (14cc) and teching extremely hard (valkonic/double armory), as soon as he scans carriers, he will and send out his entire army at once and take out all 6 bases at the same time. If he scouts a 12 nexus, he will bunker rush, if he plays on Heartbreak ridge and scouts a 12 hatch, he will bunker rush.

Flash probably has the highest number of bunker rushes against both Zerg and Protoss in the past few years, and he often does them in finals. Flash is one of the most aggressive players in this era of BroodWar.

Flash is just known for being a very uninteresting un-dynamic player, his attacks are so powerful often he just ends the game as soon as he moves out, or he will just sit on 3 bases which he managed to obtain with 1 factory, and wait until the Protoss makes an expansion too early or switches to carriers, in which case Flash will end the game within the next 10 seconds.

You also forget that Flash was known for his cheese back in his early days. It annoyed a lot of people, a notable person (can't remember who it was) mentioned in a interview (or twitter maybe?) that Flash's play reeked of boxer-esque cheese.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
_Quasar_
Profile Joined October 2010
Russian Federation4405 Posts
October 01 2011 18:48 GMT
#163
I have always thought of Flash and Jaedong as of Botvinnik and Tal'.
For the Swarm!!! Jaedong & Neo_G.Soulkey fan.
MisterFred
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2033 Posts
October 01 2011 19:02 GMT
#164
I was hoping you'd finish with Deep Blue and the Berkeley AI
"The victor? Not the highest scoring, nor the best strategist, nor the best tactitian. The victor was he that was closest to the Tao of FFA." -.Praetor
shrinkmaster
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany947 Posts
October 01 2011 21:28 GMT
#165
Great post and nice to read if you have a chess background, but comparing starcraft to chess is just wrong ....

No need to elaborate this further because this has been discussed a million times, so just let me say that this article was a very entertaining read and you did a great job.
Voltaire: The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it.
Subversive
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2229 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-01 21:51:20
October 01 2011 21:41 GMT
#166
Wow this was a good read! One of the best on the site I've had for months . I was just sad to see no Kingdom or Stork(!). 5/5

edit: My bad, Stork is mentioned. But no Kingdom . I think every other great player I think of when I think of bw history was mentioned though.
#1 Great fan ~ // Khan // FlaSh // JangBi // EffOrt //
Khenra
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands885 Posts
October 01 2011 22:23 GMT
#167
Great post, I enjoyed all of it.
This signature is ruining eSports.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
October 01 2011 23:13 GMT
#168
I'm still yet to read the entire thing but I do really like pictures.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
FragRaptor
Profile Joined October 2010
United States184 Posts
October 01 2011 23:20 GMT
#169
Sick post, loved the chess history!
Do your thing. No matter what.
Hyyde
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States43 Posts
October 01 2011 23:34 GMT
#170
If BW follows the historical trend of chess we will all soon be out matched by computers themselves.
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5281 Posts
October 01 2011 23:45 GMT
#171
Thank you so much for this article, I remembered how much I love broodwar, and it expanded my view of chess.
tehguy
Profile Joined April 2010
United States41 Posts
October 02 2011 00:29 GMT
#172
What a fantastically cool article. Thanks so much.
I like Starcraft
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
October 02 2011 01:11 GMT
#173
interesting read, thanks.
Kaminoan
Profile Joined August 2010
Chile25 Posts
October 02 2011 01:44 GMT
#174
Very nice read, thx a lot. Also, I'm a big Fantasy fan, so hopefully the next big player will be the thing guy with the glasses
Macro, macro, macro macro, micro, macro, macro, macro, macro, micro, macro...
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 02:42:10
October 02 2011 02:41 GMT
#175
I have a couple nits to pick:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 01 2011 02:47 whatthefat wrote:
Similarly, Broodwar went through a transformative change with the landmark patch 1.08 in 2000.


1.08 came out in May 2001.

GoRush had a long and successful Broodwar history, winning the World Cyber Games in 2000, before temporarily taking a break.


In 2000, when GoRush won, the event was titled "World Cyber Game Challenge".
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Mothra
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1448 Posts
October 02 2011 02:54 GMT
#176
I've always thought Boxer and Morphy run pretty parallel.
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 05:01:26
October 02 2011 05:01 GMT
#177
wowowow great blog... pretty good comparisons, especially when they're so hard to make.


On October 02 2011 11:54 Mothra wrote:
I've always thought Boxer and Morphy run pretty parallel.


on second thought, this is pretty true
Writer
ggggbabybabybaby
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada304 Posts
October 02 2011 05:58 GMT
#178
This was a really cool read.

Flash should've been Deep Blue though!
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
October 02 2011 07:18 GMT
#179
Awesome post! Final Edit worthy!
Vod.kaholic
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1052 Posts
October 02 2011 07:27 GMT
#180
Great blog. 5/5, although a few of the earlier comparisons struck me as a stretch, but that might be because I'm not familiar with the very old-school BW players and scene :p

Great work though!
._. \: |: /: .-. :\ :| :/ ._. They see me rolling...
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #93
CranKy Ducklings135
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 92
Hui .82
EnDerr 54
ProTech53
MindelVK 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 9678
Horang2 2526
Shuttle 1450
Hyuk 1280
Rain 955
EffOrt 648
Bisu 574
Jaedong 490
Mini 400
actioN 305
[ Show more ]
Hyun 177
Last 159
firebathero 144
TY 138
Killer 106
[sc1f]eonzerg 84
Pusan 75
Mind 67
Rush 56
ggaemo 54
Dewaltoss 32
Aegong 26
sorry 21
NaDa 21
Free 19
Barracks 18
Sacsri 18
Sharp 18
ivOry 10
sSak 9
JulyZerg 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe641
XaKoH 348
Fuzer 319
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1281
x6flipin501
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor286
Other Games
singsing1216
DeMusliM180
crisheroes126
SC2_NightMare2
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8630
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 28
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 40
• Adnapsc2 13
• StrangeGG 12
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt576
Upcoming Events
AllThingsProtoss
10m
Gemini_190
Fire Grow Cup
4h 10m
BSL: ProLeague
7h 10m
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
13h 10m
Replay Cast
1d 13h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL Code S
3 days
herO vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Cheesadelphia
6 days
Cheesadelphia
6 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.