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Searching for Bobby sAviOr - Page 9

Blogs > whatthefat
Post a Reply
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SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13069 Posts
October 01 2011 17:31 GMT
#161
Great article.

5/5 given
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-01 17:52:35
October 01 2011 17:39 GMT
#162
On October 01 2011 18:10 fyyer wrote:
The blog layout was good, and the amount of work put into it was good as well. I think the comparisons are pretty laughable though. For example

Fischer dedicated his whole life to Chess, even after he "retired", he was still studying tournament games and trying to find improvements in people's games. He was obsessed. Bobby Fischer hated the collusion (calling it outright cheating) the Soviets were doing when they would agree to short draws with each other. Fischer was also arguably the best ever at Blitz Chess (fast chess). Savior on the other hand is a slow APM BW player, and was proven to collude with other Koreans for profit. If Fischer himself would have played BW, he would have hated Savior.

What Botvinnik brought to the table was the idea of serious game preparation before a match. Before Botvinnik, home preparation was an after-thought, post Botvinnik it was taken very seriously. I don't recall July ever being known for studying his opponents and preparing accordingly.

Karpov was a slow "constricting" positional Chess player, Jaedong is a wildly aggressive BW player. The only relation Jaedong and Flash have with their respective chess players you assigned them to is Jaedong is always #2 behind Flash, just like Karpov was always #2 behind Kasparov.

Morphy completely dominated EVERYONE during his days. He was also the most well versed in openings for his era. He literally couldn't be stopped while he played. USA couldn't stop him and when he went to Europe to challenge their best, they couldn't stop him. He was so good compared to his peers infact, that he at a certain point refused to play anyone unless he was given a handicap (usually by starting the game a pawn or knight down). Grrr.... massed carriers.


I could go on and on, but since you added this disclaimer, I guess it's alright:

Show nested quote +
I decided to write a mostly non-serious account of their respective histories and the intertwined stories of their greatest players



I think these comparisons minimize the amount of studying and preparation Chess players do. There is so much more effort involved with far less gains. In general though, good effort.


Jaedong isn't that aggressive when you compare him to players like Shine, Eff0rt or Kwanro. He is more I should say, opportunistic and spontaneous.

Flash is one of the Terrans that does not play a slow constricting style, he is actually extremely aggressive and will always try to end games whenever the opportunity arises. Compare this to Fantasy who constricts the player through-out the whole game setting up early contains and dropping like crazy until the player has no economy left, that's a constrictive style. Flash almost never does contains, he just moves out and obliterates everything as fast as he can.

If Flash isn't cheesing, he is making extremely aggressive expansions (14cc) and teching extremely hard (valkonic/double armory), as soon as he scans carriers, he will and send out his entire army at once and take out all 6 bases at the same time. If he scouts a 12 nexus, he will bunker rush, if he plays on Heartbreak ridge and scouts a 12 hatch, he will bunker rush.

Flash probably has the highest number of bunker rushes against both Zerg and Protoss in the past few years, and he often does them in finals. Flash is one of the most aggressive players in this era of BroodWar.

Flash is just known for being a very uninteresting un-dynamic player, his attacks are so powerful often he just ends the game as soon as he moves out, or he will just sit on 3 bases which he managed to obtain with 1 factory, and wait until the Protoss makes an expansion too early or switches to carriers, in which case Flash will end the game within the next 10 seconds.

You also forget that Flash was known for his cheese back in his early days. It annoyed a lot of people, a notable person (can't remember who it was) mentioned in a interview (or twitter maybe?) that Flash's play reeked of boxer-esque cheese.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
_Quasar_
Profile Joined October 2010
Russian Federation4405 Posts
October 01 2011 18:48 GMT
#163
I have always thought of Flash and Jaedong as of Botvinnik and Tal'.
For the Swarm!!! Jaedong & Neo_G.Soulkey fan.
MisterFred
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2033 Posts
October 01 2011 19:02 GMT
#164
I was hoping you'd finish with Deep Blue and the Berkeley AI
"The victor? Not the highest scoring, nor the best strategist, nor the best tactitian. The victor was he that was closest to the Tao of FFA." -.Praetor
shrinkmaster
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany947 Posts
October 01 2011 21:28 GMT
#165
Great post and nice to read if you have a chess background, but comparing starcraft to chess is just wrong ....

No need to elaborate this further because this has been discussed a million times, so just let me say that this article was a very entertaining read and you did a great job.
Voltaire: The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it.
Subversive
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2229 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-01 21:51:20
October 01 2011 21:41 GMT
#166
Wow this was a good read! One of the best on the site I've had for months . I was just sad to see no Kingdom or Stork(!). 5/5

edit: My bad, Stork is mentioned. But no Kingdom . I think every other great player I think of when I think of bw history was mentioned though.
#1 Great fan ~ // Khan // FlaSh // JangBi // EffOrt //
Khenra
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands885 Posts
October 01 2011 22:23 GMT
#167
Great post, I enjoyed all of it.
This signature is ruining eSports.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
October 01 2011 23:13 GMT
#168
I'm still yet to read the entire thing but I do really like pictures.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
FragRaptor
Profile Joined October 2010
United States184 Posts
October 01 2011 23:20 GMT
#169
Sick post, loved the chess history!
Do your thing. No matter what.
Hyyde
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States43 Posts
October 01 2011 23:34 GMT
#170
If BW follows the historical trend of chess we will all soon be out matched by computers themselves.
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
October 01 2011 23:45 GMT
#171
Thank you so much for this article, I remembered how much I love broodwar, and it expanded my view of chess.
tehguy
Profile Joined April 2010
United States41 Posts
October 02 2011 00:29 GMT
#172
What a fantastically cool article. Thanks so much.
I like Starcraft
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
October 02 2011 01:11 GMT
#173
interesting read, thanks.
Kaminoan
Profile Joined August 2010
Chile25 Posts
October 02 2011 01:44 GMT
#174
Very nice read, thx a lot. Also, I'm a big Fantasy fan, so hopefully the next big player will be the thing guy with the glasses
Macro, macro, macro macro, micro, macro, macro, macro, macro, micro, macro...
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 02:42:10
October 02 2011 02:41 GMT
#175
I have a couple nits to pick:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 01 2011 02:47 whatthefat wrote:
Similarly, Broodwar went through a transformative change with the landmark patch 1.08 in 2000.


1.08 came out in May 2001.

GoRush had a long and successful Broodwar history, winning the World Cyber Games in 2000, before temporarily taking a break.


In 2000, when GoRush won, the event was titled "World Cyber Game Challenge".
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Mothra
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1448 Posts
October 02 2011 02:54 GMT
#176
I've always thought Boxer and Morphy run pretty parallel.
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 05:01:26
October 02 2011 05:01 GMT
#177
wowowow great blog... pretty good comparisons, especially when they're so hard to make.


On October 02 2011 11:54 Mothra wrote:
I've always thought Boxer and Morphy run pretty parallel.


on second thought, this is pretty true
Writer
ggggbabybabybaby
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada304 Posts
October 02 2011 05:58 GMT
#178
This was a really cool read.

Flash should've been Deep Blue though!
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
October 02 2011 07:18 GMT
#179
Awesome post! Final Edit worthy!
Vod.kaholic
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1052 Posts
October 02 2011 07:27 GMT
#180
Great blog. 5/5, although a few of the earlier comparisons struck me as a stretch, but that might be because I'm not familiar with the very old-school BW players and scene :p

Great work though!
._. \: |: /: .-. :\ :| :/ ._. They see me rolling...
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