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1.4 Vision Change and Positional Play

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Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
September 28 2011 23:47 GMT
#1
I did a quick search of vision, and didn't find any extended discussion on the vision change beyond its implications in PvP.

I don't have any replays, and my experience is limited to fifty or so games post patch, so I don't feel like this thread should be in the strategy forum yet. Thus, I just wanted to write a quick blog and get the community's opinion.

I find that decreasing unit vision up ramps has made it possible to defend a choke from the high ground with a much smaller defensive force than the attacking force. In fact, I think the high ground advantage is more important in Starcraft 2 than it was in Starcraft Broodwar in many situations. In brief, this is because in Starcraft 2 vision can be completely denied if a certain critical mass of DPS is reached, while in Starcraft at least damage was (randomly) guaranteed.

I'll give a short concrete example to explain. TvP on Antiga. Terran goes for a slightly unconventional Marine, Raven, Tank, Banshee, macro game. Mid game, T takes the center plateau. He spreads and sieges his tanks, and parks his Marines on the top of the ramp. P goes for Zealot, Sentry, Stalker, Immortal, with fast High Templars.

In this situation, clearing the center is almost impossible, because getting vision of the center is almost impossible. Observers are scouted by the raven, and because of the decreased unit range, attack moving up the plateau doesn't work.

First, it's impossible to storm without vision. And to prevent vision, Terran simply needs enough DPS to kill the first few units charging up the ramp, thus preventing all ranged DPS and spells. This leaves your stalkers, immortals, sentries, and immortals useless, while marines chew up the zealots.

While this is a specific example, in other situations the same principle applies. Essentially, I believe if you have enough units on the high ground to shred a few units which grant vision, the usefulness of ranged units will vacillate as they lose vision and the ability to attack. Because of this vacillation, they will not be able to decrease the DPS of the high ground units by getting a enlough shots off, leaving the high ground units to further shred any units which try to charge the ramp and give vision.

I'm curious whether I'm alone in experiencing this drastic change. I've been playing around in a unit tester, and it does seem to me that positional play in Starcraft 2 might become more important. Clearly, the same dynamic was present before to a lesser degree, but I find the small change Blizzard has made to have wide-reaching implications.

Ultimately, if maps use more small high ground chokes for expansions, I think Starcraft 2 could change for the better. But maybe I'm delusional. What do you think?

PJFrylar
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States350 Posts
September 29 2011 00:02 GMT
#2
I'm not sure it'll be that big of a deal besides the early game. Most air units tend to have a pretty far sight radius. In you example observers probably would be able to provide sight as they have a sight radius of 11. The terran might be able to see them, but you'll still get a decent chunk of vision while sitting outside the range of the marines.
deconduo
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Ireland4122 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-29 00:49:31
September 29 2011 00:48 GMT
#3
Just hallucinate 7-8 Phoenixes. If the terran wastes dps by taking them down it gives the toss ample time to move in.

The change will hopefully encourage more use of hallucination for tosses. Zergs might have a harder time dealing with that situation though.
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
September 29 2011 00:51 GMT
#4
What they changed was the amount you can see up the ramp if you're on the low-ground, not the amount you can see of the high-ground if you're on the ramp.

It's extremely subtle which is why you're only hearing about it in pvp, the situation you described is the same both pre and post patch except you could maybe put more marines on the ramp.
reneg
Profile Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
September 29 2011 00:54 GMT
#5
Hrmm, you bring up some interesting points.

I feel like, in your PvT example, a better choice might be to try to flank the T, and go for a multipronged attack. Or hit his main with a drop or something

As far as chokes / ramps for your nat, i feel like that would be guaranteeing a natural a little too much.

I don't mind some maps where naturals are safer than on other maps, but to have a lot more maps where the natural is on top of a choke (like your main), will just have everyone building their gateway / rax at the top of that ramp, and either expanding at their leisure, or confusing people into possibly being a 1 base allin, when you couldn't check to see if they had expanded yet.

I feel like you should be assured at least ONE base for a little while, i feel at no point you should have TWO really easily secured.

+ Show Spoiler [offtopic] +
That's why i don't like terminus re, because you have three bases behind one relatively super easy to defend choke. And a T or a P can just wall right there with that, and take multiple bases at their own pace. It kind of defeats the risk of taking additional expansions.
moose...indian
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