• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:38
CEST 02:38
KST 09:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview25Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates7GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th12Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Cheeseadelphia 2025 - Open Bracket LAN! $25,000+ WardiTV 2025 Series
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I made an ASL quiz [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 1
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 23699 users

Talent, Fight-or-Flight response and sc2

Blogs > rei
Post a Reply
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
September 16 2011 05:14 GMT
#1
I define talent in starcraft 2 as "the ability to consistently make the right decision under stress"
The more talent someone have, the more right decision they will make under stress.

For the longest time I have no concept of why my hand is sweating when i play sc2 and not any other game. For the longest time i thought i understood why someone with mass experience such as Idra would make bad decisions that ruins his chances at prize money at crucial matches, but after I learn of this thing call fight or flight response, I can gasp how idra can be both brilliant and stupid in different situations during a game.

Generally, this response only full blown when an animal is reacting to threats that endanger its life. The animal would release adrenaline to prepare the body for physical action. When this happens the animal will tunnel vision fight or flight.

In sc2 this response is not full blown because it is not a life threatening situation, but because sc2 creates stress, our body reacts similarly, and depend on the person this reaction to stress could be small or big. The good news is that you can train your body to stop responding this way by not getting stress out in the first place.

I was having this discussion with my friend, who is a brilliant guy, a programmer whose work depends on logical decision he makes with math everyday. For the longest time I was in awe with his bad decision making during games. I would help him on how to make good decisions in this game by explaining the cause and effect of every action taken by both him and his opponent. Let's just say that he easily understood everything on paper and in theory, and he is able to apply it on his games, but he always tend to make bad decisions when he is under stress, which usually are game ending mistakes. Things such as get supply block when he scouts opponent is moving out, or micro badly in big fights, or stacks up over 2k/1k when he is under harass in multiple spots. When we were discussing why he was not able to make the same decision calmly as he's been doing up to that point of that game, another friend of mine bought up the fight or flight response, and i realize that he was being effected by the adrenaline and his brain is unable to function normally.


Let's take Idra for example, he can be brilliant at times, but when things go wrong for him, he will lose his mind in a snap of two fingers just like that. the infamous Idra rage quit. In almost every single case of his premature exist of an still undecided game, he was taken by surprise by something his opponent did that he thought was not possible, hence triggered his stress response, when he is in stress he became tunnel vision, and when that happens in a strategy game, he will lose his decision making ability. This results in the famous rage quits. There are only few times when this happened on live events, most of other cases where it seemed he rage quite, it was only due to him being greedy and he expected to lose when the other person catch him in the timing where he knew he can't hold it off.

How do we deal with this fight or flight response?
I think everybody has their own methods, for me when stress is unavoidable there are two different concurrent methods. first, I minimize my stress by rationalizing that it doesn't matter what I do in the game of sc2 I will forever be a trash compare to the likes of jaedong, flash and bisu. So there is no reason to get up sad when I lose. Second, I plan out and imagine myself in situations where I would be under stress, I would make a check list of things to do. So when the time comes, my concentration would not break for long because of my autopilot aka the survival mode. when i'm under stress i would to do simple things like A click army don't look at fight, spend all your money, never get supply block. Of course, my brain still get freeze up initially when stress hits, but it recovers fast as my concentration returns and goes into my survival mode. as i have experienced and imagine this kind of situation in the hundreds of games I have played. After the dust has settle, and if i'm not yet cripple in the current game, I then can again assess the situation and make better decisions.

Now knowing this is the limit of my talent, knowing the decision making part of my brain will shuts down and that i have to rely on auto polit, Therefore, I must rely on a game plan that I will try and never let myself get under stress and go into survival mode. We see example of this with Idra vs MC series where Idra went all in on MC like 4 games in a row and lost horribly because he never practiced those strategy often. But he had the right idea on how to deal with this stressful situation.

So for those of you who read the whole thing, how do you guys deal with this fight or flight response?

***
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
Th1rdEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1074 Posts
September 16 2011 05:25 GMT
#2
I like this blog :D

I think this is why playing many games is important--
You learn to react to everything properly and learn from your mistakes
You should expect your opponent to drop you at a weird timing, or weird spot, so that next time it happens you have that memory of it to help you make the better decisions.
from the days of: TheMarine [NC]...YellOw [H.O.T.]-Forever99 OgOgO [_MuMyung_] ChRh PlayGrrrr.... SlayerS_`BoxeR` [Oops]Reach [ReD]NaDa [DF]zergboy..!! Pusan[S.G] Nal_rA GARIMTO SSamJJang ChoJJa JinSu Silent_Control iloveoov H_PauL_WII JulyZerg [DaK]JoYo
SarR
Profile Joined June 2011
476 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 05:36:10
September 16 2011 05:35 GMT
#3
The fight or flight response I dont think is applicable to this. Its more like a mentality of desperation to change an unfavorable situation to a less unfavorable situation.

Eg. You got no money and your child is hungry. Fight or flight doesnt apply here but there is a heightened level of stress born of desperation that may impair your judgement.
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
September 16 2011 05:42 GMT
#4
I bet only ppl in mid lvl masters or D+ on iccup have developed some kind of plan to deal with this stress, most of them doesn't even realize this while they have ways of dealing with it. Many people would just blame it on their lack of multitasking ability. and Generalize that they have to practice multitasking with UMS maps that helps them do different things in the same time, which would not have help them much at all, just like micro maps doesn't really help them micro in real game situation where stress would shut down their brain depend on how serve their stress symptom is.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
September 16 2011 05:43 GMT
#5
@SarR but the stress in sc2 requires an instant response, your example doesn't.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
Demonace34
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2493 Posts
September 16 2011 05:51 GMT
#6
I tend to shake a ton and get cold hands so I've been wearing a hoody (looking like HuK in front of the computer). It helps keep my hands warm and when the hood is up I tend to be more focused on the screen instead of everything around me.

I have a replay that blatantly shows when my adrenaline kicks in and my decision making goes down hill.

http://drop.sc/35058/d

That link should let you download it. Up to 14 minutes I think I play decently and am not having any problem with adrenaline or anything. After 14 you can see where adrenaline kicks in and I start to fall apart. This is actually the only replay I've ever put on a site because I'm not that good and I don't want to humiliate anyone.
NaNiwa|IdrA|HuK|iNcontroL|Jinro|NonY|Day[9]|PuMa|HerO|MMA|NesTea|NaDa|Boxer|Ryung|
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
September 16 2011 05:56 GMT
#7
well, in terms of dealing with macro under stress for different race, there is different ways to compensate for this, for terran, you could got queue up 3 units on each rax right before you know you need to go into major engagement, for zerg, you can have macro hatcheries and extra queen injecting, so you can slack on macro while still able to recover by making 50 units in the same time. For protoss you are out of luck, warpgate calls for perfect mechanic to excel haha
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
Demonace34
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2493 Posts
September 16 2011 06:00 GMT
#8
On September 16 2011 14:56 rei wrote:
well, in terms of dealing with macro under stress for different race, there is different ways to compensate for this, for terran, you could got queue up 3 units on each rax right before you know you need to go into major engagement, for zerg, you can have macro hatcheries and extra queen injecting, so you can slack on macro while still able to recover by making 50 units in the same time. For protoss you are out of luck, warpgate calls for perfect mechanic to excel haha


Extra gateways (read as more gateways then you can normally produce out of on x number of bases) also do the trick, but you are down 150 each one you make.
NaNiwa|IdrA|HuK|iNcontroL|Jinro|NonY|Day[9]|PuMa|HerO|MMA|NesTea|NaDa|Boxer|Ryung|
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
September 16 2011 06:04 GMT
#9
ya that's pretty rough for toss to have to rely on extra gateways, huk was relying on that during beta, he would go 5gate one base, or you can turn them back to regular gateway and queue it up like a pro
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 KFC #9: SC Evolution
CranKy Ducklings96
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 239
RuFF_SC2 142
Nina 137
PiGStarcraft1
StarCraft: Brood War
TY 66
NaDa 15
Icarus 6
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0838
Other Games
tarik_tv7876
summit1g7322
JimRising 471
ViBE204
Mew2King92
KnowMe34
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream5925
Other Games
gamesdonequick726
BasetradeTV61
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH267
• davetesta71
• gosughost_ 8
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki34
• RayReign 21
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler78
League of Legends
• Shiphtur1258
Other Games
• Scarra816
Upcoming Events
The PiG Daily
2m
Clem vs SHIN
Reynor vs herO
ShowTime vs SHIN
Serral vs Solar
CranKy Ducklings
9h 22m
Bellum Gens Elite
9h 22m
Reynor vs ShoWTimE
Serral vs Lambo
Clem vs Zoun
SC Evo League
11h 22m
Fire Grow Cup
14h 22m
CSO Contender
16h 22m
BSL: ProLeague
17h 22m
StRyKeR vs MadiNho
Cross vs UltrA
TT1 vs JDConan
Bonyth vs Sziky
Replay Cast
23h 22m
SOOP Global
1d 2h
Creator vs Rogue
Cure vs Classic
SOOP
1d 8h
Classic vs GuMiho
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 9h
AllThingsProtoss
1d 10h
Fire Grow Cup
1d 14h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 17h
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL Code S
4 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
herO vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL Code S
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
2025 GSL S2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.