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I'm sitting here listening to State of the Game and I'm realizing...we really suck as a community. Like who are we that we trash every single player that we don't agree with, we boo other games, and we have seriously driven the pros -EVEN THE PROS WHO ARE ONE OF US - to the point of being embarrassed by us.
I realized it myself a couple of weeks ago but kind of shrugged it off...we down vote people who like an unfavorable player or take an unfavorable stance on reddit. We tell people there stupid for disagreeing with us when they like the "bad player of the week."
I'm not trying to be a fan boy, but like who are we. Day[9] had a great point - why can't we just love starcraft. I'm all for telling someone when they're acting stupidly or just flat out disagreeing with a point someone makes, but for the love of all goodness can we please do it a little more nicely than we have been doing? Calling people's girlfriends ugly, sending them hate mail, WHAT KIND OF PLACE IS THIS?!?!
Not all fans of every sport are the best (i.e. Cleveland fans), but honestly it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing for a pro to look at you at an MLG event and wonder if your "one of them."
I don't want to be an entire negative Nancy. We have a passionate group. Loudest crowd at MLG, most passionate followers of players; a passion that, in my opinion, rivals professional sports worldwide.
I guess I'm just asking the community to step it up a bit in our overall classiness - one member to another. We get on the pros when they act like idiots, as we should, but we don't often get on ourselves for sometimes being a little close minded and elitist.
So, I'm gonna go put on my flame pants, but I do bid you all a good farewell.
<3
  
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The minority makes the majority look bad sadly.
But I do think you are overly generalising the community as a whole.
I'm not a fan of reddit lately because so much irrelevant stuff gets upvoted and the just the feeding off of drama stuffs. The swings from hating to loving something over there is a bit ridiculous lol and silly memes get to the top of the page too much.
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Because this community, for some reason, seems to have become hugely attracted to drama lately.
The old Korean BW players were humble for the most part. They played hard, trained hard, and if they won, they were humble about it. Drama was minimal, "manner" was always a priority, as was respect.
Now everyone just gushes over shit-talk, trash-talk, and bad attitude. Ever since FirebatHero started this bandwagon, people got all excited to hop on board. Now players are known for rivalries that are based more on trash-talk and animosity than any real skill (i.e. BoxeR vs. Yellow or NaDa was based on skill, whereas IdrA vs. Cruncher or Huk is based on drama).
It's silly. It's like the Jersey Shore generation just bought SC2 and found eSports.
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tl;dr we as a community suck and we're always criticizing someone.
I disagree really, it doesn't count for all of us but a small proportion of the community (having that this does not include blizzard forums) Some of us on TL cheer other players that they can do better next time if they lost a tournament or something
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I think that I overgeneralize the community a bit, yes, but I feel that this minority that I am speaking of makes the community harder for most of us to live in. Like someone said, reddit kind of sucks at the moment, I can't stand being in chat for shows, matches, etc. Sometimes even reading these forums make me go, "ugh."
I would never go back to WoW. That community was non-existent and always whined about something. However, I simply don't want SC2 community to divulge into a cesspool of ignorance.
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Yeah, I don't agree with this really. Compared to many other communities, we really are a very mannered and good community. And as has been said, the silent majority is generally supportive of everyone who is a force for good in esports.
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Yeah, I agree. I feel like we have two counteracting forces: a group of incredible, genuine, well mannered people with a true passion for the game and who want to see it succeed, and a group of people who have to argue about everything and complain about everything. One game I can meet a really nice guy on B.net, another I can meet an arrogant, obnoxious douche.
What made me start feeling the same way was the Idra vs. Cruncher game. Unless Cruncher is a horrible person and I don't know about it (which I doubt; I like him from what I have seen). Cruncher is hated by all of the second type of people I mentioned mainly because he wasn't a walkover for Idra in the TSL. While I don't dislike Idra and assume he and Cruncher have a problem that I don't know about, we shouldn't treat his actions and statements before and after the MLG game as a reason for idolizing him, it is something we should avoid in the community.
Day9 said it perfectly on SOTG, you're right. The second kind of people are the type who can't just like who/what they like, they have to dismiss everything else as worse for no reason.
Take, for example, a blog Milkis just put up. Everybody had a positive reaction and encouraging words; the people commenting all seem like genuinely nice people. Then you go to the threads in the general forum, and there is always someone, troll or not, who has to start a pointless debate by throwing around insults.
But I think things are looking up, or will in the future. If you look at the people who booed the other games it is easy to say that some people will impede the growth of ESPORTS by making the community a little less friendly. But then you look at those guys on SOTG, most pro players, most streamers, all the loyal fans who will buy tickets to help get tourneys going, and all the inspiring fanatics who are willing to take a plane or a 5 hour car ride to a computer game convention, and it feels kinda hard to doubt that this movement has a future.
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It is pretty discouraging at times that a vocal dickhead minority makes it seem like everyone is an asshole but I think that if you close the chat and don't read too much into the live report threads the majority of the community is actually nice or at least silent.
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Internet anonymity
I would trade my "internet freedom" gladly if it meant raising quality of the internet.
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I agree with most of the people above me in this thread. As a community, the vocal and controversial minorities get the most attention, like in most communities. However, many people are shocked at me when I say that I venture not into the dark place that is Reddit.
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Have you read the chat? God, I want to reach through the internet and punch some of these people in the face.
If you don't like something, you can not watch. Now GTFO.
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I as well would rather register my SSN with the government if it ended the douchebaggery on the internet. I don't really like the argument, however, that we are "better than most communities." That's almost similar to saying "Dude I'm not as racist as him."
Like we should strive to be the BEST community by far...we should want people to play our game because of how awesome people are, how nice and welcoming they can be, and how great our game in general is.
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Yeah, it really can be disheartening when there is such a negative and vocal minority....however, I have hope for us, and we are definitely some of the most passionate fans out there! I hope everyone comes to really love the players, but there is lots of player-bashing (or bashing of various things in general, in fact) going in many sports. It would be cool if we could transcend this and be a community that is mostly positive (there is the occasional called-for bashing, of course heh).
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The SC2 community is not that bad. 99% of the people I play against respond to my 'gl hf' and a good 40-50% 'gg'. Compare that to console games or dota-style games where it's often BM from start to finish. The only really bad places are stream chat and reddit, but if you just stick to reading TL and watching games full screen you can avoid all that.
Oh and complaining about drama can end up creating more drama too.
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On August 03 2011 14:15 tomatriedes wrote:
The SC2 community is not that bad. 99% of the people I play against respond to my 'gl hf' and a good 40-50% 'gg'. Compare that to console games or dota-style games where it's often BM from start to finish. The only really bad places are stream chat and reddit, but if you just stick to reading TL and watching games full screen you can avoid all that.
Oh and complaining about drama can end up creating more drama too.
god if u came from LoL sc2 is a fucking haven of manner LOL
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On August 03 2011 14:27 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 14:15 tomatriedes wrote:
The SC2 community is not that bad. 99% of the people I play against respond to my 'gl hf' and a good 40-50% 'gg'. Compare that to console games or dota-style games where it's often BM from start to finish. The only really bad places are stream chat and reddit, but if you just stick to reading TL and watching games full screen you can avoid all that.
Oh and complaining about drama can end up creating more drama too. god if u came from LoL sc2 is a fucking haven of manner LOL
and LoL is extremely GM compared to HoN.
i seriously think HoN maybe the worst community, but ive never played XBL
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To be fair, there are a lot of dumb people in high places in the sc2 community doing dumb things. That leads to a reaction/criticism/backlash which we call "drama." Someone pointed out that the focus from calm, mannered and most of all foreign (as in Korean) pros to todays more accessible and much more outgoing/controversial non-korean focus in sc2 has led to more drama.
tl;dr there's more drama because the players/stars in the community are generating much more controversy, both by their words and actions. That leads to a community reaction. Blame the big boys in sc2 as much as the small fans for what the community has become, not everyone is day[9] manner.
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Oh and BW since like 2002 has been very niche. Average 15 year olds havent been buying sc1 since like 2001-02, and so the people that are playing/posting are much more dedicated and mature. The short term trolls that arrive and leave with any new big game are still around for sc2: see any mainstream game's community vs any small, old niche-game's community. In 8 years (that's roughly where BW was in 2007-09), it will be a much more mature community, if it's even still around.
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I disagree, I think the SC2 community is pretty good.
If you had to ask me I would say it goes from best to worst: fighting game community, strategy community, fps community in order of quality when it comes to the competitive genres (Lots of other communities obviously, but I think those three are fairly split and the biggest for sure when it comes to competition).
I should note that my knowledge of the fighting community is just an observer's opinion viewing from the outside in and whatever I know about competitive shooters is not from me personally but from close friends who were directly involved. This just concerns competitive aspects as I do enjoy those genres casually and play a fair amount.
The fighting game community really impresses me a lot and I think it has to do with age and the whole arcade background and mentality. I mean when you shit talk you better back it up because there are people right next to you including your opponent. Not just that but being offline ties closer bonds. Online I never had any problems as I don't play a lot of people who want to play several series or rematches (And to be honest playing someone out of skill level is not enjoyable over and over).
The FPS community may be rough around the edges and a little more brash, but to be honest that would just be a stylistic difference. However, shooters are filled with tons of people and by default you will get a good number of haters, jerks, and snobs even outside of casual settings. I personally can't hang with the continual dick waving in competitive shooters especially when it comes from couch commandos and not just the people who can back it up.
Personally, I really think the more you connect someone to their opponent or opposing team the more the community grows for the better. If you are trying to learn from your opponents or otherwise feel the impact of the other players' skill then you are less likely to be a jackass to them and more likely to respect them.
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I've played a lot of games and SC2 is the first one where no one has actually threatened to come to my house and kill me in my sleep so I think the sc community is pretty good.
Its been said before but really its a few people that make the majority look good, when halo finished its not like everyone in the starcraft section ran over and started booing them, only a few people did and unfortunately those are the people that stand out.
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EPT
