I may not have the time to share a complete guide but this has been winning me matches left and right directly or indirectly.
It involves cutting probes early and being "inefficient" with my opening but i get two stalkers out at 4:00.
Beat my time! I'd like to see it!

Standard open:
9 pylon
10 chrono (no more till stalkers due to supply limits)
12 gate
13/14 gas

Now it gets funky:
If you didn't scout and you stack your probes up on the close patches it obviously makes a difference for this build. I would love to see it done without cutting probes but i don't think its possible.

15 gate
probe
16 core
probe
17 pylon
probe

If you don't build another probe till those 3 buildings are done (optimizing in progress to have them finish at the same time) you should have 250 mins and 100 gas the moment they finish (start another probe early if your high on mins and the pylon is done)

Slap down two stalkers and chrono those mofos and you get to terran's base in pretty good shape. Don't even bother with the scouting worker its not important as your cards are revealed and the next stalker will clean up.

This works great. Here are some things that happen.
Start warp gate/second gas get senties when you can and save up for a super early nexus.
Don't produce anything and get a super duper early nexus.
Keep up the pressure/go all in.
A happy 2 gate expand at reasonable timing to the standard with a safer army size.
Add another gate and expand very safely.

If Your scouting probe is still alive and it is obvious that more pressure would put him on the ropes:
- Forget warpgate start two more stalkers when you can and keep the pressure on.
If You know hes got a dece wall without a bunker.
- Poke with the stalkers killing mariens in exchange for shield damage. You scare them into building bunkers and being defensive while your nexus, warpgate, and more gates are going up.
If He has one bunker sitting on top of the ramp with a couple mariens in it...
- run by! this fucks up their early game plan and if you decided to go with further pressure the next two stalkers will have a good chance at taking down an empty bunker

Using a little bit of head games to give you room to expand is how i usually play this out. I like when they scout the second gate before pylon/core as it freaks them out! if they build a wall you can do some obs/vr play (two base mind you) to break it down from the low ground sniping supply depots and tech labs.

Keep those stalkers alive! they are a heavy investment and they need to have a presence. Just hanging out at the bottom of the ramp and reinforcing with sentries will give him something to think about and keep him on one base letting you expand happily.
I love sentry contains on bio terran
You know hes getting tanks so get phoenix immortal and boom boom.

I would confidently engage 1 marauder and 2 marines behind a wall with those 2 stalkers and only back off when the reinforcements arrive. Target the marauder. Get a good estimate of the pressure you can expect and tack on another gateway/build up an army before expoing.

Really micro intensive but also fun to play. And a great way to win early/keep the terran on one base/scare him and mess up his strat nice and quick.

Maybe I should have done this at home and added reps and formatting. I spoke more about it than i intended. Just wanted to say PvT is my best matchup atm and I'm loving putting early pressure back on T.

Thanks for reading and please critique below.

Ba Bo

18 Posts

June 02 2011 14:29 GMT

Wait a minute. When did stalker build time decrease?

ComaDose

Canada10357 Posts

June 02 2011 14:37 GMT

On June 02 2011 23:29 Ba Bo wrote:
Wait a minute. When did stalker build time decrease?

oops my mistake thought it was when they increased warpgate research edited. thank you.

Ive been using it regardless and its working lovely.

Froadac

United States6733 Posts

June 02 2011 15:01 GMT

Yeah. It was in the PTR but got edited out, to keep this sort of pressure in check

Zaphid

Czech Republic1860 Posts

June 02 2011 15:13 GMT

Yeah, I did that a few times, but then people go for marauder pressure and you have a problem

Scarecrow

Korea (South)9172 Posts

June 02 2011 15:37 GMT

Cutting probes for this is kinda risky, better off getting the second stalker a little later imo because all they need to do is build a bunker and your aggression is stopped dead in its tracks. I used to do this a long time ago and found it just put me behind economically despite the map control. Granted you might do a fair bit of damage if they don't wall/bunker in time but they really should be able to figure out what you're doing and react.

ComaDose

Canada10357 Posts

June 02 2011 15:47 GMT

It is a matter of if you don't cut the probes you need to get the pylon before the second gate or the core. So the timing for the second stalker is way off.
To both of you above me. They often do know whats up and get defensive accordingly which lets me set up a nice sentry contain. which fairs well against marauders too.
I like playing a game where i dictate the shots so this is a great way for me to get up and in your face quickly. a bunker in/and a wall is pretty much the only way that it will do 0 damage and in that case I don't loose my stalkers and feel pretty normal.

EDIT: Its like delaying 3 probes for like 2 seconds each. Not too big of a deal rele.

mordek

United States12705 Posts

June 02 2011 15:58 GMT

I like it when people find timings like this. Just something to change up the early game.

zykHOT

Canada30 Posts

June 05 2011 07:39 GMT

I actually messed around in single player vs ai because I wanted to 2 stalker press ( works well against Z and T ) and this build comes up quite perfectly and it is well aligned. I cut probes at 15 supply tho, drop my gate first, then cyber. I DELAY that usual 15 pylon to 16-17** so i can chrono that first zealot out, slap down 2 stalkers as soon as the Z finishes, and slam down warpgate asap too. The gaz timing of 14 (spot on) gets you exactly 150 gaz when your cyber finishes. As soon as you

push with zealot + 2 stalkers, get to opponents base around 4:50 ( max ), cut probes at 26, build nexus, build 3 additional gateways, resume probe production. Keep aggression on !

ComaDose

Canada10357 Posts

June 06 2011 19:49 GMT

#10

On June 05 2011 16:39 zykHOT wrote:
I actually messed around in single player vs ai because I wanted to 2 stalker press ( works well against Z and T ) and this build comes up quite perfectly and it is well aligned. I cut probes at 15 supply tho, drop my gate first, then cyber. I DELAY that usual 15 pylon to 16-17** so i can chrono that first zealot out, slap down 2 stalkers as soon as the Z finishes, and slam down warpgate asap too. The gaz timing of 14 (spot on) gets you exactly 150 gaz when your cyber finishes. As soon as you

push with zealot + 2 stalkers, get to opponents base around 4:50 ( max ), cut probes at 26, build nexus, build 3 additional gateways, resume probe production. Keep aggression on !

Hey tried this out but im not sure im following your B.O.
As far as i know there is no way to get 150 gas before your cyber finishes without an earlier than 14 gas.
your not warping in your second gateway before the second pylon like i am? 1 zealot and 2 stalkers would be better than just 2 stalkers but yours must be coming much later than mine. The time for the gateway to build is longer than the core so if you dont start the second gateway till after the first zealot starts building im not sure how your lining this up.

Jaeger

United States1150 Posts

June 06 2011 21:30 GMT

#11

Dual stalker opening has been around for a long time and fell out of fashion as if terran opts for fast concussive shells you're in bad shape and you can't know his decision before you have to commit to your opening.

Some of the adoption and eventual dismissal of this opening is discussed in this thread:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=140629

jeagz

France31 Posts

June 09 2011 11:25 GMT

#12

I absolutely love this build. I tried some variations where I don't need to cut probes but didn't succeeded

You speak about PvT build, but I prefer to use it in PvP. It's awesome.

While pressuring with my 2 first stalkers, I produce one more so I can really scare the dude and deny any 4 wg attempt. Anytime a toss sees your 2 gates before your core, they will try to get a 2nd gate asap to be able to produce a second stalker. But generally it let you some time to kill the 1st zealot and harass efficiently. Andthe money they spend to counter you leaves you really safe against a 4wg timing push.

I only produce additionnal 2 stalkers (total of 4, only harassing, trying to not losing them). Then I usually expand, robo, colobay + one additional gate while the nexus is building. Of course I try to get a small army to survive during all of this. It is really efficient !

ComaDose

Canada10357 Posts

June 09 2011 11:50 GMT

#13

On June 07 2011 06:30 Jaeger wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

ah. yes quite... thanks for the link. very informative. Perhaps this will be something i keep in my utility belt for when i want to mix it up.

On June 09 2011 20:25 jeagz wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I absolutely love this build. I tried some variations where I don't need to cut probes but didn't succeeded

Thanks, not as big of a fan of it in pvp because its pretty easy to get caught and trapped after their first warp in. But the scaring them into reacting that early is great for messing up their timings.
I would always get my third gate before robo when doing this because they are almost always going to react with a lot of gateway units.