So i hate playing destination as a zerg. There are 1001 things that T player can do in the early game to really screw with you. Lately I have been playing a new style of zvt. I am playing a build that I have made up and have had some great success with it when playing at higher levels.

I am showing this game because it always feels good to beat a 240apm korean, that has been to C, C- and becuase this build did everything I wanted it to- and crushed him. It was almost unfair

Enjoy

Gummy

United States2180 Posts

May 16 2011 05:36 GMT

Congratulations. BW forever! But srsly, who still plays on Destination? Isn't that the gayest map ever?

endy

Switzerland8970 Posts

May 16 2011 05:44 GMT

On May 16 2011 14:36 Gummy wrote:
Congratulations. BW forever! But srsly, who still plays on Destination? Isn't that the gayest map ever?

I guess it's because it's MOTW.

Can you tell us more about your build OP ?

Hyde

Australia14568 Posts

May 16 2011 05:55 GMT

On May 16 2011 14:36 Gummy wrote:
Congratulations. BW forever! But srsly, who still plays on Destination? Isn't that the gayest map ever?

No that map is Python

anyway, those initial lurkers did quite a bit of damage, he was stuck on 1 base for quite some time. And then it became 4 base vs 2 base. I enjoyed it haha, well done
He didn't even GG afterwards lol

Also was it me or is the replay a little buggy, the terran player had an scv and some marines running around the back of his minerals almost the entire game (or did he have those there to spot drops?)

Cr4zyH0r5e

Peru1308 Posts

May 16 2011 05:57 GMT

I'm really curious about your build, how does it Normally play off? your nat was delayed quite a bit. his factory was late, he stayed on 5 rax the entire game while having around 1.5k min in the bank almost at all times O.O
He could've killed the lurkers you had harassing his nat WAY earlier, he could've also killed the 4 lurker contain you had as soon as you pulled them back a little. How do you defend drops? hydras aren't as fast as speedlings and keeping a lurk sitting at home seems kinda pointless...
What's the mentality behind your build / purpose of the same?
You had a huge advantage by delaying his nat / taking a hidden 3rd and you made him play way too defensively, which I believe is one of your purposes, but how do you deal with someone who just microes his way around your lurkers, gets earlier tanks and tries to kill you while you're transitioning to hive?
Not taking credit from you, It was well played. I'm just really curious about your build. Also, as a terran player, understanding it would make it easier for me to react to it when I encounter it

(I assume ppl will be copying you) ㅋㅋ

Ramiel

United States1220 Posts

May 16 2011 06:33 GMT

well my build was based off of effort vs flash build in the korea air OSL.

In that game effort fakes a 2 hatch lurker, grabs a quick third- and then goes turbo hive, while hiding behind 4-6 lurkers. flash is sitting in his base with bunkers, missile turrets and the works expecting the lings and lurkers to start to pour in. Well effort does not have any intent of going in- and is fast tecking to hive on 3 bases. By the time flash figures it out- its too late.

I took that idea, and decided to run with it. However I went in a different direction. Instead of fast tecking to hive, I stay on lair longer and build up 4-5 hatch. Then I have +1 missile attack hydra dn lurks which are very very powerful vs T bio and small numbers of tanks. normally terran players like to get +1 attack, so marines get shredded by my lurkers- and it gets pretty nasty.

My build is as follows;

12 hatch
11 pool
10 gas
do not save larve for lings, and make only 2-4
lord on 16
lair @ 100gas
@ 50% lair get your den
and at lair complete make your lurker upgrade.

At this point you should be whoring as many drones as possible, and provided that T does not have you boxed in- you should be trying to get your third hatch up. Once your lurker upgrade is about 50% complete make 4 hydra.

Keep pumping drones, and make sure that you keep your overlords on time- overlord on 23 and 31 so that way you have the supply for your 4 lurks. Once you have the lurker upgrade complete- put down an evo chamber ASAP. you will have 100 gas right when your evo pops, so you should start +1 missile. After +1 missile wait for 150gas and then get hydra speed. After you get hydra speed then range.

Ideally you want to make as few lurkers as possible. You are simply trying to contain T and cause some damage if you see an opening. Otherwise you should be pumping drones. You should be able to put up your 4th hatch some time between you starting +1 and getting hydra speed. After you have your 4th hatch take a second gas. continue to pump drones, and macro like a fiend.

At any point if you feel uncomfortable about T breaking out- make sure that you build a few more lurkers. Remember that you are not trying to kill or even maim T- you just want to contain him for as long as possible. Once your missile upgrade is about 75/80% done start your spire, and once missile upgrade completes start your Q nest. You should be getting to hive around 10:00-10:15 into the game. So while you don't have a 'turbo' hive, it is still within normal timing. Now the +1 missile is a very very strong timing for you- as hydra can snipe tanks easier, and your lurkers will shred marines. use hydras to try and snipe tanks, and use your lurks to keep the marines off your hydras.

Once your +1 missile finishes start your second evo chamber and third gas. The first evo chamber should start +1 cara, and your second evo should start +2 missile. get your third gas. Transition into hive, and once you start building your defilers take your 4th gas at your third base. Stay defense with your hydra lurk force, and simply starve him out. If the terran player is going for 2 fact tanks (the counter to hydra lurk zvt) then you can do one of two things. First is to get queens and brood ling, the second is to get muta. If you start noticing a heavy tank buildup from your t opponent, then i would suggest grabbing flyer cara +1 as well. Use your mutas to snipe tanks, play defensively- and do not attack into a seiged up tank line.

At this point the game kind of turns into tvz mech- so you need to be prepared for this inevitability. The only difference is- you have 4 base lol Once your defilers pop get swarm and then plagu. Plague is your ultimate weapon as hydras and plagued marines is a joke. Once your carapace finished +2 start your ultras, and then transition into hydra ultra defiler (this is only if T has stayed on bio play- do not do this vs mech)

I think that is the best i can explain. here are some other games of me playing this style. Some of the games are vs B and higher opponents. And while I do lose, I feel that it was mechanics and decision making- not the build that lost me the game.

You will have to excuse the gas spike in some of these replays- I was still ironing out the timings lol

hope you enjoy

ohh most of these reps are high pressure T builds, the second one is vs a B+ terran- it was hard lol

I feel that this game is the best out of the three (I do have more- and my favorite one is corrupted : ( anyway this game here is vs a really really good T player. I feel that I could have taken him down- but I focused on the nat too much. Again all of these replays are in the early stages of the build (it is more refined now) And i do not pump as many drones as i can, and at time I overcommit to my lurkers

But these games should give you a good idea of what it plays kie

PUPATREE

340 Posts

May 16 2011 08:13 GMT

Cool build, and grats :D

What would you think of using guardians, possibly in place of ultras?

And wait, weren't you that streamer who had 10 fps and explained what he was thinking? Your stream really helped me hahah - touched C this season with my fearsome 135apm and some of your strategy ^^

Stratoss

Czech Republic129 Posts

May 16 2011 08:34 GMT

You played well but the Terran just didn't do anything at all, so you could get away with pretty much anything. I'd even say he's worse than I am and I'm in between D- and D. Look at the game from his point of view. He's always having troubles macroing, he doesn't care about scouting at all, he leaves the base with no medics whatsoever, then he has too much of them and almost no marines, the way he handles the lurkers, and the fact he's got the tank out so late... on top of that no GG.

I'm not saying the build's not okay. Actually I don't play zerg at all so I won't judge. I'm just throwing my opinion on the Terran player. Be sure to enjoy your win, you did a good job, and you certainly outplayed your opponent. I'm just not sure if it's the build or rather your overall skill imbalance vs. the guy that won you the game. Either way, congrats!

Nice replay, I enjoyed it. Post more!

a176

Canada6688 Posts

May 16 2011 08:40 GMT

dude whatttt

i love playing zvt on desti BECAUSE its so wacky

Rustymike

Finland327 Posts

May 16 2011 10:50 GMT

#10

Oh nice, gonna look more into these replays when I get home.

On May 16 2011 14:23 Ramiel wrote:
So i hate playing destination as a zerg. There are 1001 things that T player can do in the early game to really screw with you.

Exactly, I'm about C- or a little lower in lategame zvt myself but I lose to early game madness that Terrans do like 60% of the time. The early gas can mean so many different things and timing attacks, its just insane.

Ramiel

United States1220 Posts

May 16 2011 16:15 GMT

#11

On May 16 2011 17:13 PUPATREE wrote:
Cool build, and grats :D

What would you think of using guardians, possibly in place of ultras?

And wait, weren't you that streamer who had 10 fps and explained what he was thinking? Your stream really helped me hahah - touched C this season with my fearsome 135apm and some of your strategy ^^

Yep that is me

I stopped streaming becuase of the low fps- and i don't think that i can just stream with audio lol But if you like I can just audio my stream- but i doubt people would watch it lol