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Star Trek episode for GF? - Page 3

Blogs > RedTerror
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MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-30 13:31:24
March 30 2011 13:20 GMT
#41
The Savage Curtain HAS LINCOLN IN IT, SO IT MUST BE COOL


The savage curtain is the paragon of Trek incredulity. The coincindence that two of the four representatives of Good merely happen to the the Captain and First officer of the Enterprise, along with a totally ineffectual Lincoln and pig-headed Vulcan idealist rather offends the scope of human history, to say nothing of universal history.

The same critique can be made for most Star Trek episodes, including the City on the Edge of Forever. The fictitious premises on which the ideas of the show are based bear no relation whatsoever to the experience of reality.

Nonetheless, TOS remains the best and most watchable Trek series, because it was made in an era which was unashamed of preaching absolute concepts, unalloyed by the ethical vacillations of more realistic "Trek." The complete irreality in which TOS existed spares us many of the embarassments of some later Trek episodes, which affect to portray human dilemmas with contrived situations. Its superhuman prodigies were permitted to be unrealistically large, their ridiculous strategems implausibly effective, their inner virtues were always miraculously translated into martial triumphs.

I had the advantage of watching City on the Edge of Forever as nearly my last TOS episode. The tragedy is effective and shocking not by its inherent execution, but by the fact that this is so untypical of TOS. A sympathy for the episode requires a prolonged acclimatisation in the TOS millieu.

I also have to disagree with rating In the Pale Moonlight as a paradigm for DS9. The episode plays like a TOS moral dilemma, if only Kirk were a neurotic who reflected on necessary actions more than committing them. But Kirk is not like that. In fact, neither is Sisko like that. Everything which had been established about Sisko in the previous seven seasons was thrown out in this episode for a character story which was off-character. Sisko had never been an idealist, and had a long track record of commiting impromptu and questionable actions. The story about Sisko's loss of innocence through the cauldron of war is ineffective because Sisko was a hardened warrior in Season 1, and he never had any innocence to begin with. Neither did I find the moral dilemma itself compelling. That Garak had to deconstruct Sisko's psychology was bad mimetic storytelling.

It has been observed that In the Pale Moonlight was effective on the same grounds as those on which I praised City, that it was so untypical of Star Trek. The entire DS9 canon is littered with such examples, if you had been paying attention. Only in most occasions the inference was more subtle, and did not come about by having a protagonist spelling it out to us, as Garak did for Sisko. Nor was it necessary to use Garak. Sisko as a grown-up man was capable of saying to himself exactly what Garak said. The simplistic dichotomy between Sisko the idealist vs Garak the realist in this episode shrinks the scope of both characters, rather than expands it.

I also thought that Inter Arma enim Silent Leges was a better variation of the same theme.

My recommendation?
1. 95% of the Star Trek demographic is male, and for good reason. Do not show her Star Trek unless she is genuinely interested.
2. "The Enterprise Incident" from TOS for the ladies.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
March 30 2011 14:14 GMT
#42
You should definitely pick an episode from TNG (but not from the first couple of seasons). Preferably some episode focusing on Picard. :D Dunno which specific episode though.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
mintiefresh
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada52 Posts
March 30 2011 14:42 GMT
#43
I would recommend the movies instead...


perhaps TNG's finale -- All Good Things...
LonelyIslands
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Canada590 Posts
March 30 2011 15:01 GMT
#44
Definatly the Tribble Trouble episode or the one where Kirk (original series) fights the big Lizard man in the Desert and gets his shirt ripped. She'll go crazy over him, but its OK, you got her to watch Star Trek right?
My heart and my mind will carry my body when my limbs are too weak
sikyon
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1045 Posts
March 30 2011 15:22 GMT
#45
On March 30 2011 22:20 MoltkeWarding wrote:

I also have to disagree with rating In the Pale Moonlight as a paradigm for DS9. The episode plays like a TOS moral dilemma, if only Kirk were a neurotic who reflected on necessary actions more than committing them. But Kirk is not like that. In fact, neither is Sisko like that. Everything which had been established about Sisko in the previous seven seasons was thrown out in this episode for a character story which was off-character. Sisko had never been an idealist, and had a long track record of commiting impromptu and questionable actions. The story about Sisko's loss of innocence through the cauldron of war is ineffective because Sisko was a hardened warrior in Season 1, and he never had any innocence to begin with. Neither did I find the moral dilemma itself compelling. That Garak had to deconstruct Sisko's psychology was bad mimetic storytelling.

It has been observed that In the Pale Moonlight was effective on the same grounds as those on which I praised City, that it was so untypical of Star Trek. The entire DS9 canon is littered with such examples, if you had been paying attention. Only in most occasions the inference was more subtle, and did not come about by having a protagonist spelling it out to us, as Garak did for Sisko. Nor was it necessary to use Garak. Sisko as a grown-up man was capable of saying to himself exactly what Garak said. The simplistic dichotomy between Sisko the idealist vs Garak the realist in this episode shrinks the scope of both characters, rather than expands it.


I disagree. When was sisko presented as a hardened warrior? He had been through the battle of Worf 359 - but that was only a single battle, where you destroy the enemy or he destroys you in a single climactic engagement. There were no hard choices to be made. He was bitter about having lost so much in that battle (and angry at Picard) but a single engagement does not wear on a man the way a true, protracted war does. I truely believe that he was infact an idealist (ie. unwillingness to use the fact that he was the prophet at first to help him, but then using it later to tell the Bajorans what to do). He has to make more and more ethical decisions as the series, and the war, goes on, and the balance of good vs evil that he appreciates deteriorates. The episode is in my mind a paradigm because it highlights this ongoing process. The moral dilemma may be rather standard (death of a man vs death of an empire), and not as interesting as the one in say "A measure of a man". Yet even if these concepts are "littered" through DS9 cannon, this just makes the exposition in the episode a stronger example.

Anyhow I wouldn't recommend anything that goes back in time - I think that those episodes are not good for newcommers because the setting is not representative.f
rkffhk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
474 Posts
March 30 2011 16:39 GMT
#46
On March 31 2011 00:22 sikyon wrote:
I disagree. When was sisko presented as a hardened warrior? He had been through the battle of Worf 359


Wolf 359*
"Did not realize gold was such an important threshold for people, I guess I honestly take it for granted that if people practice / invest enough time into this game then they would make diamond in no time." ~Caihead
Rayeth
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States883 Posts
March 30 2011 16:59 GMT
#47
Great episodes of TNG:

As already suggested Darmok is great one. As is Cause and Effect for the awesome time travel/causality shenanagins. And I really like the last episode(s) too, All Good Things, but probably not a great idea to start at the end of a series, lol.

For DS9 In the Pale Moonlight is pretty much the only good choice. It might be a bit difficult as a stand alone viewing due to all the various factions involved, but it really is a great episode.
The Innocent shall suffer... big time.
rkffhk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
474 Posts
March 30 2011 17:49 GMT
#48
On March 31 2011 01:59 Rayeth wrote:
Great episodes of TNG:

As already suggested Darmok is great one. As is Cause and Effect for the awesome time travel/causality shenanagins. And I really like the last episode(s) too, All Good Things, but probably not a great idea to start at the end of a series, lol.

For DS9 In the Pale Moonlight is pretty much the only good choice. It might be a bit difficult as a stand alone viewing due to all the various factions involved, but it really is a great episode.

Dude, you're clearly forgetting about The Visitor...
"Did not realize gold was such an important threshold for people, I guess I honestly take it for granted that if people practice / invest enough time into this game then they would make diamond in no time." ~Caihead
Phant
Profile Joined August 2010
United States737 Posts
March 30 2011 18:29 GMT
#49
The trouble with tribbles.

no questions asked.
MisterD
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1338 Posts
March 30 2011 18:47 GMT
#50
man why star trek? :D My personal recommendation would be "Blink" from Doctor Who, ep 3x10 of the new doctor who series. Best thing ever. Just .. well, it's not star trek.
Gold isn't everything in life... you need wood, too!
sikyon
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1045 Posts
March 30 2011 20:26 GMT
#51
On March 31 2011 01:39 rkffhk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 00:22 sikyon wrote:
I disagree. When was sisko presented as a hardened warrior? He had been through the battle of Worf 359


Wolf 359*


Hahaha it's been awhile
fabulously
Profile Joined November 2010
Norway724 Posts
March 31 2011 15:39 GMT
#52
I'd recommend Voyager. Probably my favorite Startrek, followed by Enterprise and DS9. Personally I didn't like TNG and TOS much. Good luck, though, keep us updated
Welcome back ROOT-gaming - you were never forgotten <3
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
April 05 2011 00:11 GMT
#53
inner light episode from tng
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
drgoats
Profile Joined March 2010
United States310 Posts
April 05 2011 02:36 GMT
#54
Trouble with Tribbles -
Great title and those Tribbles are so adorable and will likely fit a girl's tastes
ELA
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark4608 Posts
May 31 2011 05:21 GMT
#55
On April 05 2011 09:11 LemOn wrote:
inner light episode from tng
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5DJW1kZckI


I just watched that episode, so awesome

Browsing through old threads, I stompled accross this thread a few weeks ago, and it inspired me to watch TNG again, just finished.

Also, The Drumhead is quite good as well - The quote in my signature is from there actually

Other that might be suitable:

- Family (Very touching, does require watching "Best of both worlds I & II though)
- The Chase
The first link of chain forged, the first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.
Perscienter
Profile Joined June 2010
957 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-13 12:18:58
July 13 2011 12:18 GMT
#56
There are so many good and bad episodes.

The war-episodes are somewhat special to Star Trek, so I don't recommend them. In DS9 there are among other things:
  • Season 3, Episode 26 – Aired: 6/19/1995
    The Adversary
  • Season 4, Episode 11 – Aired: 1/1/1996
    Homefront (1) and Paradise Lost(2)
  • Season 6, Episode 2 – Aired: 10/6/1997
    Rocks and Shoals (3)
  • Season 1, Episode 6 – Aired: 1/31/1993
    Captive Pursuit


I also won't recommend any time-travel weirdo things.

Now TNG. No Borg for now:

  • Season 5, Episode 25 – Aired: 6/1/1992
    The Inner Light
  • Season 3, Episode 13 – Aired: 2/5/1990
    Deja Q
  • Season 4, Episode 14 – Aired: 2/11/1991
    Clues
  • Season 7, Episode 12 – Aired: 1/10/1994
    The Pegasus
  • Season 5, Episode 2 – Aired: 9/30/1991
    Darmok
  • Season 6, Episode 18 – Aired: 3/29/1993
    Starship Mine
  • Season 5, Episode 14 – Aired: 2/17/1992
    Conundrum


I really like puzzle episodes. I hate the most: time travels, alternate universes, transporter accidents, inter-reality crap etc.

I wouldn't recommend Star Trek at all to any one. It didn't stick to any rules, was inflated too much and lacked intelligent ideas.
UltimateHurl
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland591 Posts
July 13 2011 16:51 GMT
#57
To echo some of what's been said I think In The Pale Moonlight is fantastic, had a similar experience trying to introduce my GF to SciFi recently, she really likes fantasy books and the Original Series was by far the most interesting to her, Standalone character-driven stuff, 'Mirror,Mirror' was one of the first she watched and she loved it
Perscienter
Profile Joined June 2010
957 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-14 17:57:13
July 14 2011 17:56 GMT
#58
edit: Wrong thread, sorry.
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