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On March 03 2011 01:19 DayJP wrote:Show nested quote +her game knowledge is remarkable compared to the expectations, and she can provide valuable information from time to time. uh... she just said "he pulled the drones off the gas, so he's probably going for an all-in" in a stream
Yeah, she also said that when moonglade was going 14 hatch at the natural, he's going to go for a speedling all-in. Also in the GSL, she said that when a techlab was switching from factory to starport, it might be an early drop because the guy had 6 marines
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I love all the comments about her being an 'OK' caster; fair enough, but 'OK' shouldn't be satisfactory for casting Starcraft at the highest level of play. Match the level of play with level of casting.
It's OK not be the most knowledgeable about the game and current trends, but then don't expect making a living commenting on precisely those things.
Her voice also bugs me, but since this is A) a matter of taste and B) somewhat hard for the caster to alter, I feel I should go easy with this complaint.
Things I do like about her: she's enthusiastic, seems genuinely interested in what's going on and eager to comment. She also works better with Tastotis that I first expected.
All in all I applaud GOM for finding a female caster, and thus opening the scene somewhat to very male-dominated sport. But Tastotis was already a A-team to begin with, and it's shame to see them taken apart for this sake.
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The question is: Can she be replaced by another female with equal or better knowledge and voice. The answer is no so let her have her chance.
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Kelly is doing a great job. Her game knowledge far surpasses many of the most popular casters such as Husky, HD, and TotalBiscuit. Also, if so many people can listen to TotalBiscuit's god awful voice I can't possibly see how people can mind Kelly's voice.
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I think it's unfair to judge so quickly. I mean, tasteless was still just "ok" (with some good moment, and some bad moments) like one or two months ago.
When she casted with artosis, she was good, I think it was her best day. When she's with tasteless, it goes from bad to good. When she's with tasteless, he controls his own obsing. Artosis always "feeds" tasteless with informations, supply count, army size, and so on. Tasteless never think to look at those things. Today was the first time she actualy asked him the supply count, I think she should ask him more, so tasteless can take habit to monitor those things to add to the conversation.
By the way, please tasteless, call the player by their names, stop saying "the zerg" or "the protoss", it's just bad (and disrespectful). Same remark for Kelly.
Anyway, I don't like, neither I dislike the tastolly casting. Tastosis are worth watching at, even when the games are soso. Artolly too. But tastolly not so much, but I still guess she'll become much better, when she get used to be on TV. Her voice and accent are a handicap still, I guess the koreans who hired her didn't realise that obviously.
As Huk said to Jon "I didn't understand a word of what you said" <3
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On March 03 2011 05:45 haduken wrote:
The question is: Can she be replaced by another female with equal or better knowledge and voice. The answer is no so let her have her chance.
But she has had a chance, and as you can see, many people are upset.
And why must she be replaced with a female?
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On March 03 2011 06:12 Mastermind wrote:
Kelly is doing a great job. Her game knowledge far surpasses many of the most popular casters such as Husky, HD, and TotalBiscuit. Also, if so many people can listen to TotalBiscuit's god awful voice I can't possibly see how people can mind Kelly's voice.
Apparently HD is in master league for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4?
While Husky's commentating is rarely insightful, he sticks to the basics (always helpful), has a great sense of humor and a knack for generating entertaining commentating.
TotalBiscuit and his 260k subscribers including myself disagree with your assessment on his accent.
I am not discrediting Kelly here, I just don't understand this hate for Husky/HD/TotalBiscuit. Is the community really that elitist?
And why must she be replaced with a female?
Definitely not a must, but rather a plus, as it brings in diversity. There are, indeed, female viewers. A female caster serves as a nice representation of a niche population of the community.
However, there is no well known female SC2 commentator in existence, excluding Kelly of course.
Usually female casters are always the ones getting hammered on. I remember both the OGN female caster for BW and also the Korean female caster for GSL had their credibilities questioned.
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She's doing well given her previous experience and performances, but I still feel she's below the standard GSL should provide. Wrong calls, poor articulation, and her casting doesn't interest me in the game as much as it could.
Keep at it I guess, but I've lost a lot of interest in Code A.
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Norway28916 Posts
I thought kelly did a nice job and she wasn't unpleasant to listen to. Her strategic insight was much better than expected. I greatly prefer the artosis/tasteless duo, but honestly, I liked kelly/artosis or kelly/tasteless more than a good 90% of people who try casting. exceptions are essentially chill, day (with or without djwheat), TB, tastosis.. everyone else I've ever listened to is either greatly lacking in game knowledge (whereas this would probably apply to kelly if she was casting alone, when she is with artosis or tasteless it's not a problem), in ability to keep the flow going, keeps giggling or laughing or breathing loudly into the microphone, makes jokes that aren't funny, or are quiet or talking about completely irrelevant stuff too often.
I mean christ I remember I watched some jackass talk for 5 minutes about how he's a much better caster than other casters because he plays the game. jesus christ what a moron, he's a much worse caster because he keeps talking about how much he plays the game and how that gives him superior strategical insight rather than talking about strategy or the game.
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I really don't get it why almost everyone's so negative towards her, maybe it's just because she's a woman...
I think she is a good caster(she may not be the best but my main reference are the casters provided on TL) and if you compare the featured casters on TL to her, she is definitely one of the best imo.
She has not the ultimate game knowledge but except of Day[9] and Artosis(maybe also Tasteless, but I am not sure about that) no one can fullfill that criteria.
Another point mentioned quite often is her accent and I have to say that I have absolutely no problem to understand what she says. I am not a native English speaker or have anything else to do with languages, I am just regularly listening to streams/casts and I know that there are many people that don't speak perfect English and so is she. Just try to listen to her completely unbiased one time and maybe you will be able to understand what she says, it isn't as hard as most of the people pretend to!
The OP also added that she could try to "spice up her vocabulary" which may be right concerning her but Tasteless is using the same phrases quite often, too. I don't say that this "task" is easy, especially in the strange breaks right before a game starts or sth like that but I think it is unfair to criticise only her because of that.
All in all, I like that she was added to the caster team. At the beginning the casts with Tasteless weren't that good but it seems that they are becoming familiar with each other(right phrase?) and the first cast of Ar-Kelly was just awesome(fake high five!). Maybe people should just try to deal with the fact that a women is telling them what's going on ;-)
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On March 03 2011 00:25 Navane wrote:
Yeah just put a dead corpse next to tasteless and artosis, and they will manage to make something of it. But that gives no credit to the dead corpse.
User was temp banned for this post.
i wonder why he got warned for this post - its not said in a nice way but there is some truth in this statement - she didnt even know the names of each unit on the first days of casting. When she states her opinion tasteless and artosis always try to make her not look dumb and kinda agree with her opinion even if she is wrong and missunderstands the situation. But she will never get that kind of knowledge she would need to read the little tells unless she grinds Starcraft 8 hours a day for the next 3 months.
I was hoping that she actually casts only with Artosis and Tastless at the same time - and her part is saying the obvious such as "ooooooh so many banelings" or " good micro" and stuff like that. But her trying to do analytical stuff combined with her voice and accent is just not an enjoyable experience.
Yeah she might be better than expected - but is better than expected good enough to cast the biggest Starcraft2 tournament? I think not and i hope she will get replaced in the next season, i think the only reason she got the job is that there was nobody else applying for it.
Also something you guys probably didnt consider is that you already know what is happening on the screen - you played that game and you will have at least the basics down, but if someone that never seen a starcraft game in his live before watches her cast he needs to focus on what she is saying - if you know what happens you can turn a deaf ear and her casts seem to be not as bad because you dont really have to focus on her if you dont want to.
Some other fact to think about Tastosis isnt perfect either - they didnt know that you shouldnt enter a vortex with archons if there are banelings already in it or close to it.
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On March 03 2011 07:32 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2011 00:25 Navane wrote:
Yeah just put a dead corpse next to tasteless and artosis, and they will manage to make something of it. But that gives no credit to the dead corpse.
User was temp banned for this post. i wonder why he got warned for this post - its not said in a nice way but there is some truth in this statement - she didnt even know the names of each unit on the first days of casting. When she states her opinion tasteless and artosis always try to make her not look dumb and kinda agree with her opinion even if she is wrong and missunderstands the situation. But she will never get that kind of knowledge she would need to read the little tells unless she grinds Starcraft 8 hours a day for the next 3 months.
He was banned not because of what but how he said it, i think that is obvious
Yeah she might be better than expected - but is better than expected good enough to cast the biggest Starcraft2 tournament? I think not and i hope she will get replaced in the next season, i think the only reason she got the job is that there was nobody else applying for it.
Fact is, she casts this tournament. You can either bicker on this or provide constructive criticism that may enhance your viewers experience.
It is irrelevant at this point how she got their or if she deserves it in my oppinion.
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I don't get why people keep defending Kelly with the "she's a girl" defense. There have been several popular warcraft 3 commentators, for example, that were female. I recall immensely enjoying Bunny back in the days of wc3replays.com. I think she casted a tourney at blizzcon, too, and it was enjoyable.
I think for the most part guys love female casters. But they love female casters with a sexy voice, good humor, and knowledge of the game. Kelly might have decent knowledge of the game, but not enough to make up for her lack in the first two categories. That's my theory on why she's unpopular.
Frankly, I don't much care for tasteless, either. I have no theory on why he's popular at all, as he seems to mostly be bouncing off Artosis for good commentary. In the absence of artosis, I found the kelly/tasteless commentaries to be quite annoying. On the other hand, Artosis/Kelly wasn't too terrible. I think the underlying key here is that you have mediocre casters bouncing off Artosis' ideas and coming off a lot better than they really are. In any case, please stop the "people don't like kelly cause she's a girl" defense. I would love to listen to a female caster, but she'd better have a soothing voice or be really funny, just saying.
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Yeah I'm pretty sure she knew all the unit names.... she plays the game. Why would you say something that's not true? People are just finding reasons to talk shit and dislike her. I mean come on.... There's a thin line between criticism and shit talking.
PS. Why do kelly critics have to high jack every thread that concerns her to just bag on her. Bag on her somewhere else. Like the High Five thread, we had tons of people just going on about her casting when the thread wasn't even about it
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On March 03 2011 08:37 adeezy wrote:
Yeah I'm pretty sure she knew all the unit names.... she plays the game. Why would you say something that's not true? People are just finding reasons to talk shit and dislike her. I mean come on.... There's a thin line between criticism and shit talking.
PS. Why do kelly critics have to high jack every thread that concerns her to just bag on her. Bag on her somewhere else. Like the High Five thread, we had tons of people just going on about her casting when the thread wasn't even about it
hellion is a racecar? and she said something like the raven blocks marines with the pdd.
There were more mistakes like that i didnt make a list of it - i dont want to shittalk but thats how i felt watching her the first time - probably iam biased because i laughed so much at incontrol making fun of her on the first time but you know so many minor mistakes add up to a bad cast.
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lolol i don't understand why some people are all up in arms about kellymilkies and her casting
it seems to be more of a bandwagon sort of thing
more power to her though \o/
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On March 03 2011 09:00 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2011 08:37 adeezy wrote:
Yeah I'm pretty sure she knew all the unit names.... she plays the game. Why would you say something that's not true? People are just finding reasons to talk shit and dislike her. I mean come on.... There's a thin line between criticism and shit talking.
PS. Why do kelly critics have to high jack every thread that concerns her to just bag on her. Bag on her somewhere else. Like the High Five thread, we had tons of people just going on about her casting when the thread wasn't even about it hellion is a racecar? and she said something like the raven blocks marines with the pdd. There were more mistakes like that i didnt make a list of it - i dont want to shittalk but thats how i felt watching her the first time - probably iam biased because i laughed so much at incontrol making fun of her on the first time but you know so many minor mistakes add up to a bad cast.
Oh come on, there are a lot of valid criticisms but the hellion = racecar thing isn't a big deal. Even tasteless uses other names for units sometimes (medivac=dropship, vulture bikes in BW, etc). Granted, she should probably wait to be more established before making stylistic additions to her casting because people could be confused, but it's not because she doesn't know what the unit is called.
If anything, it's just unprofessional and potentially confusing to some viewers.
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OK. I think the biggest issue here is that people expect that the commentator/caster is of sufficient skill to be an ATTRACTION as opposed to being tolerable or adequate.
Tens of thousands tune in to Day9 in order to hear him talk. The quality of the game he commentates is sometimes less than 50% of the content and attraction.
I admit that I do not tune in to Code A, ever, in order to hear Kelly commentate. I do, however, tune in Code S because Tastosis are so good and funny that they pull me in.
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Well, I don't have a problem with her game knowledge or the jokes she is pulling.
Her accent however, is quite irritating.
Now, I have no problem in understanding what she is saying (apart from few minor and scare things) and I have no problem with her as a person. On contraire, she seems quite nice to me.
But employing a person with a heavy accent to cast in one of the most prestigious tournaments of its kind for paying customersis quite a weird decision in my opinion.
A professional commentator should have a great voice and be able to make commentarys that are so brilliant, that they are on the verge of being addicting.
E.g. day9, under whose youtube videos you will frequently find comments like "I would listen to day9 commentating on paint drying on the wall".
Anyways, bottom line: some people just aren't suited for certain jobs and yeah, life's unfair.
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GOMtv hired a (supposedly) attractive female to cast for them in order to appeal to the lonely nerd stereotype, and this is what we get. No surprises at the level of her casting on my part. Oh, and some random guy who's good at starcraft(huk) shushing "haters" doesn't really bother me. Same amount of caring on my part as if some random guy walking on the opposite side of the street thought I was talking too much.
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