Zerg player with about two thousand games, able to compete (and mostly loosing badly) in high level games. Several times in top 200 EU Blizzard, few weak local tournament victories and even less top 8 finishes in major tournaments (go4sc2 zotac..). Pretty much no-name player without team.
I am firm believer that Terran is strongest race with most options and yet i have to read that there are no talented zergs in EU, that Z failed to learn the game and all talented players started playing terran, that's why they win tournaments.
WRONG ! I am going to proove all of you marine cheesers WRONG!
I lost in KOTH tournament against terrans again .. in WB and in LB as well... after watching replay with 80 apm opponent making marine+siege combination and rolling me i realized .. i can do this as well.
I have been a longtime Blizzard believer but even i have lost my faith... i consider my old gods clueless .. after wandering for few days in chaos it is time to take drastic measures:
Infested Pitro is cleansed into Pitro-one of many soulless terrans
Goal:
Starting today i am going to switch race to terran. Objective is to win go4sc2/zotac/TLO or some comparable tournament with deadline set to 1.4.2011
Progress: I am going to make stream and try to post major achievements and tournament results in this blog as well.
Failure: If there is going to be some gamebreaking major balance patch sooner than 21.2. it is possible i will cancel this attempt.
Day 0: I tried few games as T on my friend's account against players from Czech and Slovak sc2 channel. I was able to beat master toss - once, but lost to platinum level protoss several games in a row. I am learning basic build orders from comented replays.
Just don't do this. No matter what your results are, your "experiment" will be retarded.
Edit: If its just to switch races for fun, thats fine, I do it all the time. But if you're trying to conclude anything about balance then what I wrote originally stands true.
Day 1: Delevelling my account with about 50 leaves in a row allowed me to start training. Bye bye top 200, i lost about 500 points. Now i am getting opponets from high diamond and low master league.
After several games i got marine icon !
So far playing T feels really nice. Instead of thinking "I am dooomed, didn't i forget this .. this .. or this .. " i witnessed myself pretty confident with mental state "this map is mine!"
Every unit feels really strong. My biggest problem is TvP, i have no knowledge of toss army power during early minutes so i am often crushed by early agression.
As a Zerg player who switched to Terran, I can objectively say that Terran is a lot harder than Zerg. It requires more micro and is a lot harder to macro late-game with, and in general harder to learn as it is quite a bit more complex a race. Zergs are notoriously whiny and I'm convinced you will realize how silly your state of mind regarding balance is in a short amount of time.
I get it, you're frustrated after a few losses, and "OMG IMBA" is a way to cope with it without having to look at your own faults, but please, this is silly. The grass is always greener on the other side etc. IMO just man up and L2P. Switch race if you want to, and doing so is fine, but you're clearly doing it for all the wrong reasons.
Bibbit i believe i almost hit my peak as zerg player. Being able to take some games from top players but unable to beat them consistently. I missed stability with my results and believe it is becouse of race i used to play.
I trained .. a lot. So if with Terran my results will improve it will provide some information about status of game. If not and i will stay mediocre it will provide information as well.
On January 21 2011 09:53 RiB wrote: Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
User was temp banned for this post.
RiP, RiB
anyway onto actual content
in your TvP just build 2 barracks and do a push before orbital with half of your scvs build orbital during push sometimes they will hold this off build 1-2 more rax continue push until toss is dead...this is actually devastatingly strong as the initial push will usually do some degree of damage and they will usually try to recover rather than just spam zealot sentry stalker like they should T.T
i feel like a traitor...but in the name of Terran's OP! i part this cheese to you
On January 21 2011 10:05 Pitrocelli wrote: I trained .. a lot. So if with Terran my results will improve it will provide some information about status of game. If not and i will stay mediocre it will provide information as well.
Exactly... it will provide some information about the status of the game. The problem is most people will exaggerate your 'results.'
If you are more successful with terran many will say "SEE, ZERG IS UP" which is far from proven.
That doesn't really prove anything. I mean, it might prove that Terran's more suited to your style, but it won't be conclusive about balance of the races.
I have a challenge for you. Play Terran against a fairly equally skilled Protoss or Zerg on the GSL test maps. If you don't consistently win, please change the OP to say "The current maps favor Terran."
On January 21 2011 10:36 Count9 wrote: That doesn't really prove anything. I mean, it might prove that Terran's more suited to your style, but it won't be conclusive about balance of the races.
On January 21 2011 11:05 jalstar wrote: I have a challenge for you. Play Terran against a fairly equally skilled Protoss or Zerg on the GSL test maps. If you don't consistently win, please change the OP to say "The current maps favor Terran."
I'll admit I do play Terran in SC2, so if you think I'm just biased that is fine, but regardless, I don't see how that would make those two quotes any less accurate.
Funny. I lose as terran most, but then again I play terran least. Given a 3/3/3 split of random. I pick zerg most, and then protoss/terran.
But even so, I feel most comfortable as terran in the early game. I don't buy the "omg it takes so much more micro and macro as terran". The micro isn't significantly harder, it's easier. The macro is harder then zergs, but much less annoying then protoss is.
I lost in KOTH tournament against terrans again .. in WB and in LB as well... after watching replay with 80 apm opponent making marine+siege combination and rolling me i realized .. i can do this as well.
Or you could spend the time practicing and figuring out how to beat a slowly executed (80 apm) marine/tank build. With this experiment you could figure out that practicing actually helps more than blogging!
I'm in the same situation as you. I constantly lose PvZ and it's been my greatest flaw. Two MLG events had me losing terribly to zerg. I'm not becoming a firm believer that Zerg is the strongest race just because mutas own me and i'm definitely not jumping ship because I don't want to have to figure out a way to beat them. I go to the games of Tyler, White-Ra and HuK, I see how Genius can roll zergs and why I can't.
In my down-time after MLG Raleigh/DC I switched over to a more sentry heavy opening and amazingly, my win-rate vs Zerg skyrocketed. Thus proving that it's actually PROTOSS that is the overpowered race and not ZERG....
Oh wait...
Do all the experimenting you want, nobody can change what you believe. Just don't expect your "experiment" to be ground-breaking or provide evidence one way or the other. The TvZ debate is so incredibly stupid that there is no way it will be ended anytime soon. It's a disease that has embedded itself so far into the heads of players that neither side will change their opinion, no matter what evidence is presented.
P.S.
I always read about how back in the days of BW, the forums were full of people discussing strategy instead of imbalance. If something was really strong, they spent hours finding out how to beat it, not how to nerf it. I wish I started playing Starcraft years ago : /
I always read about how back in the days of BW, the forums were full of people discussing strategy instead of imbalance. If something was really strong, they spent hours finding out how to beat it, not how to nerf it. I wish I started playing Starcraft years ago : /
Oh come on don't say 'back in the days of BW' =/
But after reading what you wrote I immediately thought of Bisu and how he approached Savior's play style (regardless of any allegations about Savior).
He said "what can I do to win?" and revolutionized the matchup for a while.
On January 21 2011 12:17 Backpack wrote: Do all the experimenting you want, nobody can change what you believe. Just don't expect your "experiment" to be ground-breaking or provide evidence one way or the other. The TvZ debate is so incredibly stupid that there is no way it will be ended anytime soon. It's a disease that has embedded itself so far into the heads of players that neither side will change their opinion, no matter what evidence is presented.
P.S.
I always read about how back in the days of BW, the forums were full of people discussing strategy instead of imbalance. If something was really strong, they spent hours finding out how to beat it, not how to nerf it. I wish I started playing Starcraft years ago : /
100% agree with these 2 paragraphs. I really wish people would come to their senses and be a little more humble and open-minded when discussing things about SC2.
What I see happening is you start playing Terran and get owned by Protoss allins/late game colossi+templars. Then you'll be like "Toss OP!" and switch to toss, only to die to Terran allins. That's what happened to me anyway, and I started out as T.
Hmm, I guess there is still a slight balance against Zerg.
You go ! Though I think personally that you will find that it's kinda hard still to be succesful with either terran or you choose zerg really : ) (playing zerg myself). And I tried as you terran for a while, but they got their own challenges really, even if it feels like you hit seige mode on tanks and a move marines and macro a little and get free wins.
On January 21 2011 18:04 vnlegend wrote: What I see happening is you start playing Terran and get owned by Protoss allins/late game colossi+templars. Then you'll be like "Toss OP!" and switch to toss, only to die to Terran allins. That's what happened to me anyway, and I started out as T.
Hmm, I guess there is still a slight balance against Zerg.
Here's what'll help vs toss: POLTPRIME!
He will switch to Toss and get owned by FE-zerg into mutas, and then he will be "Z is OP!".
Jokes aside, good luck with your switch but do not fool yourself that regardless of your result anyone will change thier opinion. If you make it thoose who even before thought T was OP will use it as proof but thoose who beforehand thought T was fine wont change thier opinion. And same thing but reversed if you do not make any big splash as T.
For example, what would you say if i yesterday posted a long, well written article about how Morrows switch and success with Zerg proves that Z and T is balanced? Now, i am not saying it is, just as an example.
I had my last exam today so it was not ideal time for gaming. Anyway i have played 26 ladder games (opponents about rank 2 diamond up to rank 40 masters), out of them 18 wins. Running on 69% winrate i have probably deleveled myself too much.
As you guys said Protoss is biggest problem, all my ladder loses except for 1 are in TvP.
I started to prefer mech a lot, heard that there is some mech terran Goody out there so i am going to check his replays for inspiration. At my level transition to mech after toss reaches templar tech seems like better choice compared to melting bio armies.
Muscle memory on basic commands started to kick in, i dont have to wander for few seconds how to produce marine or mule anymore
Goal for tomorrow is to harras more, attack multiple location at the same time, work on multitasking. Repairing of harras units instead of loosing them seems like nice way to demoralizing opponents so it is goal nr. 2.
On January 21 2011 10:05 Pitrocelli wrote: I trained .. a lot. So if with Terran my results will improve it will provide some information about status of game. If not and i will stay mediocre it will provide information as well.
You're using yourself as a zerg a few days ago as the control of an experiment about improvement. If you can't see your own improvement I suggest you attempt a different way of approaching your practice and training.
Regardless of how dumb I your whole experiment is, I do believe that playing Terran will actually make you a better zerg player. Understanding the other side of a matchup will give you great insight to what your opponent is thinking and planning. After you get tired of Terran you should give Protoss a whirl!
After concentrating on harras without backing off from macro-heavy play i have reached 2850 master league points / top 700 EU.
Expecting downswing becouse i dont play on that level yet. TvP is still my weakest matchup. After watching countless of top T players suffering same fate i decided to stop following them and make playstyle of my own.
Friend of mine have send me link to one of my games commented on youtube. If you survive through German commentary it can give you picture of my zerg playstyle few days before i switched.
I recently switched from zerg to terran as well. Drone timing always felt so difficult and random and I like the harrassment and slow big push style that you can do with terran.
EPT
. But they wont fix it for a loooong time. It's not about balance, it's about profit.
. Gl hf!
