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Blogs > Aberu
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Aberu
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States968 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 10:56:09
January 16 2011 07:40 GMT
#1
MOD NOTE: Stay on topic and formulate your posts carefully and with dilligence or moderation will follow. No bullshitting around or flaming.

One of my good friends just posted this on facebook.

I am an UN-APOLOGETIC AMERICAN!! I pledge allegiance to the flag of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under GOD, indivisibl e, with LIBERTY and JUSTICE for all!! I grew up reciting this every morning in school. We no longer do that for...fear... of OFFENDING SOMEONE!! Let's see how many AMERICANS will re post this & not care about offending someone!!


Now as an atheist, I was a little offended, but more-so concerned. Being offended isn't enough reason to present an argument to a friend for me. It's usual for me to present an argument to discover the depth of their opinion, if it is at all present. So I replied like this.

Under God was added to the Pledge in 1954. Historically speaking it's been in the pledge for a shorter amount of time than we have been in existence as a nation. Plus a Federal Judge ruled it unconstitutional, which it is, since it is proclaiming that this is a nation under the monotheistic protestant god, and no other. My stance as an atheist is, that you give an inch they take a mile. If I let them treat me as if I'm not part of the country because of my beliefs (or lack thereof), then how is that essentially any different than the oppression people face in some middle eastern countries where they are bonified theocracies.

Not that I'm against religious people, I just think that religion is a personal thing, and whether the country endorses your God or any other god shouldn't have any bearing on your personal relationship with said deity.


It really is the same as if you lived in a country that was catholic and pledge allegiance to the pope, but you are protestant, and you were like sitting in class and everyone says it, and then you don't, and are socially an outcast because of it. If the law of that country didn't pledge allegiance to anything supernatural or religious, that social conflict wouldn't be inflicted unfairly upon children.


And finally religious belief is yours, not everyone's. This country is about freedom. It was founded on the principles of people fleeing from the catholic church, as protestants. The founding fathers were fighting against a theocracy for their freedom as a nation. Most of the founding fathers were deists, meaning they believed there was a god, but they had no belief in the Christian god. They publicly outcried against religion. Not to say they are right, but to proclaim that this is a Christian nation is only true in the sense that the majority of people that are citizens here are Christians. A country being secular, which ours is traditionally in practice governmentally, doesn't take away from your religious practices whatsoever. You are still allowed to teach your children everything you want to. You wouldn't want the schools to take over and teach your children your personal beliefs that you want to pass on to them would you? That's how it feels for atheist parents, like the government is trying to tell them that there isn't a such thing as raising a child as someone who makes up their own mind one day.


I have yet to get a response, and probably won't get one. Just wanted to open a discussion on this topic though. Under god, your stance on it?

**
srsly
The_LiNk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada863 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 07:47:06
January 16 2011 07:42 GMT
#2
What god?

Edit: Ok, apparently I decided to think after I posted.

Since I'm not American, I don't pledge to the God, the Flag or any of that. In fact, I haven't made any pledges because I'm born in Canada. Apparently, if one is born in the country that one resides in, they're automatically loyal to that country, whereas one that moves in the country is not. Anyways, if you're going to pledge your loyalty to the state, then the pledge of allegiance should be to the state. It's not a matter of political correctness, but of whom you're showing allegiance to.
Lightswarm
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada967 Posts
January 16 2011 07:45 GMT
#3
On January 16 2011 16:42 The_LiNk wrote:
What god?


the god people created in their heads
Team[AoV]
Aberu
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States968 Posts
January 16 2011 07:46 GMT
#4
On January 16 2011 16:42 The_LiNk wrote:
What god?


Well the god in the USA's Pledge of Allegiance is "God". The christian god.
srsly
Herpadurr
Profile Joined January 2011
Monaco151 Posts
January 16 2011 07:46 GMT
#5
God shouldn't play a role in anything as he doesn't exist until proven otherwise.
You're stupid. Stop it.
yesplz
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States295 Posts
January 16 2011 07:50 GMT
#6
God is whatever was the catalyst for life imo...
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4209 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 08:03:54
January 16 2011 07:57 GMT
#7
http://godisimaginary.com/i28.htm

The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."


The link goes into more detail. Out of many "proofs" that are available (which are technically not actual "proofs", since they rely on an assumption that "god exists" so that it can be disproven, when there is actually no "proof" that "god exists" to begin with..... well, at least nothing that doesn't fall apart when put up to logical scrutiny), this is the one that I find to be most convincing.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Gummy
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2180 Posts
January 16 2011 07:59 GMT
#8
God is Almighty and (P)Jesus his son died on the cross for our sins. We as Americans have a holy duty to praise His name and acknowledge our (Z)sAviOr, for without Him we are lost. America is a Christian Nation and we are all, whether we acknowledge it or not, soldiers in His cause.

Jesus Hwaiting!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't.
The_LiNk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada863 Posts
January 16 2011 08:00 GMT
#9
What's the God's cause?
rel
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Guam3521 Posts
January 16 2011 08:02 GMT
#10
Try mescaline then tell me there's no Supreme Being.
I'll tank push my way into her heart. ☮♥&$!
JohnnyYen
Profile Joined September 2010
United States313 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 08:04:28
January 16 2011 08:04 GMT
#11
try mescaline then tell me that dave is not a horse
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8133 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 08:09:32
January 16 2011 08:05 GMT
#12
it's bullshit (saying under god in the pledge, and really just the idea of the pledge in general) but really who actually recited the pledge in school anway? lol. when i remember doing it in school, only like 3 kids would actually do it.
Free Palestine
Gummy
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2180 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 08:08:39
January 16 2011 08:08 GMT
#13
We all did it graciously in school; and since prayer in schools has been outlawed by the traitorous liberals, I think it was a healthy dose of Jesus for the heathens.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't.
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 08:16:48
January 16 2011 08:15 GMT
#14
It's unconstitutional. The constitution is fallible, but I believe that it's a good thing for a country not to be affiliated with a certain church. People have to be really dumb not to realize that. I have many christian friends who agree that the US is a secular nation. As it is constituted of many religion, the government shouldn't "pick" a religion.

In this day and age, it even seems ridiculous that a government would have a religion. Grow up people.

On January 16 2011 17:08 Gummy wrote:
We all did it graciously in school; and since prayer in schools has been outlawed by the traitorous liberals, I think it was a healthy dose of Jesus for the heathens.

Prayer was never outlawed, it's just illegal to force children to pray in school. I'm not sure if you were kidding though, I have a hard time with sarcasm on forums - it's such a silly thing to say, but yet...

Anyway this is my second language so if you were kidding, my apologies.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
cartoon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States23 Posts
January 16 2011 08:17 GMT
#15
ehhh, Religion I predict many arguments for today's forecast.
Gummy
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2180 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 08:19:20
January 16 2011 08:18 GMT
#16
Hey DJzapz! I'm glad God finally got through to you and you changed your sig away from that vain quote from l1a. Even though you're not American, in God's eyes you're almost as good.

On January 16 2011 17:17 cartoon wrote:
ehhh, Religion I predict many arguments for today's forecast.


I find your lack of faith disturbing.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't.
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
January 16 2011 08:21 GMT
#17
On January 16 2011 17:18 Gummy wrote:
Hey DJzapz! I'm glad God finally got through to you and you changed your sig away from that vain quote from l1a. Even though you're not American, in God's eyes you're almost as good.

Months ago x_x
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
0mgVitaminE
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1278 Posts
January 16 2011 08:33 GMT
#18
I haven't actually recited the pledge since like 5th grade. I'll stand and be quiet, but no way am I just going to pledge to a flag because I have to.
That makes it sound more rebellious than I actually am, but it's sorta what I think of it.
Hi there. I'm in a cave, how bout you?
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
January 16 2011 08:33 GMT
#19
--- Nuked ---
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4209 Posts
January 16 2011 08:38 GMT
#20
On January 16 2011 17:33 stormtemplar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2011 16:57 Impervious wrote:
http://godisimaginary.com/i28.htm

The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."


The link goes into more detail. Out of many "proofs" that are available (which are technically not actual "proofs", since they rely on an assumption that "god exists" so that it can be disproven, when there is actually no "proof" that "god exists" to begin with..... well, at least nothing that doesn't fall apart when put up to logical scrutiny), this is the one that I find to be most convincing.



Counter argument is that there is no conclusive proof that god DOESN'T exist and thus the fact that some atheists ridicule people of faith for lack of proof and blind faith is hypocritical.

It's kinda hard to prove that something doesn't exist when there is no "proof" that it exists anyways.....

Look up "Russel's Teapot" to see what I mean.

Counter-argument my ass.....
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
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