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14 Hatch is a standard Zerg opening, it's not cheese or all-in at all.
I will say this is solely based on the conversation though. Bout to watch it.
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It isn't his decision to risk his economy by doing some sort of cheese. You are.
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why do you even have convos with people like that? ESPECIALLY a first line like that -> block player
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Yeah, I don't see why you care.. this zerg doesn't seem like he's worth the keystrokes to me.
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Calgary26004 Posts
I like when I lose and people message me to rub it in. Instantly block.
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On December 28 2010 03:27 Tuneful wrote:
Yeah, I don't see why you care.. this zerg doesn't seem like he's worth the keystrokes to me.
Well, I just want to be sure, if 14hatch is all-in or not so I know how to respond better :>
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u can't defend cannons with hatch first
you didn't use the cannons correctly
sorry im not gonna bother watching the replay
next time cut probes at 14 and just keep making cannons nonstop
put them in spots where drones cant get full surrounds on them
the conversation is stupid btw
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Wait... so the point you are trying to make is that hatch first is all-in? If that is the case then I think you are absolutely wrong. Hatch first might be risky but that does not define it as all-in. I think your definition of what is an all-in is the major issue, there is a difference between going 14 hatch and pulling all your scvs for a two rax marine push.
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You're wrong. 14 hatch is not all in.
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hatch first vs protoss isn't allin, it's just bad, and loses every time to forge first from a good player
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hatch first is kinda risky, sure. I'm not sure if it's autolose anything, but blistering actually has pretty long rush distances. Use the term  all-in correctly please.
and holy shit you are persistent with those cannons. he is right to say you should have a plan B. there was probably a point where you could have cut your losses and continued with a regular game...
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On December 28 2010 03:29 travis wrote:
u can't defend cannons with hatch first
you didn't use the cannons correctly
sorry im not gonna bother watching the replay
next time cut probes at 14 and just keep making cannons nonstop
put them in spots where drones cant get full surrounds on them
the conversation is stupid btw
yeah, but the problem is I did exactly like that. 12 Gateway, 14 Forge, cutted probe production, but still lost... was very suprised.
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On December 28 2010 03:29 travis wrote:
u can't defend cannons with hatch first
you didn't use the cannons correctly
sorry im not gonna bother watching the replay
next time cut probes at 14 and just keep making cannons nonstop
put them in spots where drones cant get full surrounds on them
the conversation is stupid btw
From what I saw on Blistering, it's pretty hard to get Cannons in a good spot to hit the Hatch without risking a good surround. There is a lot of open space behind the mineral lines and anywhere else is just asking for a surround.
It was Protoss-T, Zerg-B.
He had to rebuild his Pylon and cancel his first 2 cannons and wasn't getting Probes during the whole thing (well, you say you shouldn't, but it would've helped him in this case because Zerg wasn't really producing anything, although he could've just gotten Lings when his Pool went up...), which would've put him ahead because the Zerg pulled a ton of Drones and stopped producing for some reason. Yet he continued, even after the creep spread from the Hatch while not doing anything in his base. Except one Zealot that could've done a little more damage but was mis-microed a tad.
It was just sloppy.
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On December 28 2010 03:31 palanq wrote:hatch first is kinda risky, sure. I'm not sure if it's autolose anything, but blistering actually has pretty long rush distances. Use the term all-in correctly please. and holy shit you are persistent with those cannons. he is right to say you should have a plan B. there was probably a point where you could have cut your losses and continued with a regular game...
hmm... Is 14hatch more like cheese then? I can't imagine it as normal play since I almost never face it =P
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STOP USING THE TERM ALL-IN WRONG.
All-in is an attack, ONLY.
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On December 28 2010 03:33 Welmu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 03:31 palanq wrote:hatch first is kinda risky, sure. I'm not sure if it's autolose anything, but blistering actually has pretty long rush distances. Use the term all-in correctly please. and holy shit you are persistent with those cannons. he is right to say you should have a plan B. there was probably a point where you could have cut your losses and continued with a regular game... hmm... Is 14hatch more like cheese then? I can't imagine it as normal play since I almost never face it =P
...
It's a lot safer to Pool/Gas first in PvT, but Hatch first is very strong on maps with large rush distances because it takes longer for you to be able to respond.
That and it doesn't seem like BS is good for building cannons safely.
It's not cheese or an all-in, it's just a really greedy build and can be punished with fast aggression.
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Well hatch first isn't an all-in build if you ask me, but that guy is still the dick in the conversation. You weren't exactly a nice guy but at least your comments were in response to his. In my mind, the person who initiates BM is the bigger dick.
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On December 28 2010 03:33 Welmu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 03:31 palanq wrote:hatch first is kinda risky, sure. I'm not sure if it's autolose anything, but blistering actually has pretty long rush distances. Use the term all-in correctly please. and holy shit you are persistent with those cannons. he is right to say you should have a plan B. there was probably a point where you could have cut your losses and continued with a regular game... hmm... Is 14hatch more like cheese then? I can't imagine it as normal play since I almost never face it =P
You must have a huge reputation of being a cheeser if you NEVER see a 14hatch, it might not be the most popular at this moment because of the numerous ways a protoss can punish the zerg for being greedy but especially in four player maps its still widely used.
High level play is in a rather sad state if a standard macro opening has become an all-in or a cheese.
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While I agree 14hatch is hard to defend, its in no way an all in. It's just a risky opening against toss
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-176751.jpg)
