• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:36
CEST 22:36
KST 05:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection5Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June0Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection My starcraft 2 changes SCFusion - WoL, HotS & LotV Build Order Optimizer TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes?
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
The Korean Terminology Thread BW animated web series: seeking contributors FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event 14k games analyzed: Cross Spawn Nexus first good? Data needed
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5501 users

Music and the Art of Form - Page 3

Blogs > Mellotron
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
phosphorylation
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2935 Posts
December 19 2010 08:08 GMT
#41
I feel like he is not arguing against postmodern music, per say (I doubt he is even knowledgeable about postmodern art). Instead, he is attempting to argue against postmodern conditoin or "attitude," which I do agree with. Of course, his arguments are not entirely convincing.
Buy prints of my photographs at Redbubble -> http://www.redbubble.com/people/shoenberg3
jon arbuckle
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada443 Posts
December 19 2010 08:27 GMT
#42
On December 19 2010 15:07 Chef wrote:
I think I've tried to respond to the modernist comment like six times now and deleted it every time. There really isn't a good way to argue about art. All I can say is that modernism/post-modernism is one of the most important movements in art to ever take place. It's been incredibly liberating and allowed creators to invoke feelings which in the past would have been considered out of the realm of art. Imagine not being able to describe the gritty details of war, imagine where we'd be if war poets had never done that. That was art before modernism. Romantic poems about failed love and clouds and personal regrets. And before the romanticists, political poems that always tried to teach a lesson and never talked about the poet's feelings. Shifts in music have been similar.

One of the things modernism has really done for art is being able to express psychological disorders like PTSD and schizophrenia... If everything were nice and pleasing and obeyed the rules, it'd be really difficult to express that kind of stuff. But by being allowed to make jumps and sharp, unpleasant sounds, you can get a sense of stuff like that so much better.


Broadly speaking, modernism may be the most cold, unfeeling art movement. Its innovations are formal more than anything - e.g., twelve-tone composition, T.S. Eliot's 'object correlative', Dadaist self-consciousness, Cubism's many perspectives, the Crystal Goblet and grids and gestalt theory in de Stijl, all drawing upon and eviscerating the higher artistic subjects of the past - and mainly addressed, responded to, and concerned itself with 'high' art. The appropriation of modernist forms and the collapsing of high into low, further complicating the issue through the introduction of new perspectives, is what typifies postmodernism. What distinguishes modernism from postmodernism and both from (I guess) not-modern (and whether or not they're finite terms, whether modernism or postmodernism are states of mind) is open for debate. Like most, I will likely not attempt to make that distinction wholesale.

I will note that the hierarchy presumed upon for 'classical' forms of music that was maintained by Cage, Stockhausen, or Schoenberg was nearly destroyed by postmodernism in music, which to me takes hold with the Beatles, who were often collapsing Stockhausen, skiffle, and Phil Spector together, sometimes in the same song, and yet could not read sheet music. I think this is what bothers other people about the notion of 'postmodern' music? That it's somehow cheapened the art? Not unlike the change in purified imperative to form and scholarship some glorify in the evolution from romantic poetry (which is definitely not all about "failed love and clouds and personal regrets," man), frothing in an aggressive boil-over in modernist poetry (e.g. Ezra Pound's Cantos), and then evaporating outright in postmodern poetry, which some consider lazy or obscure or asinine or all in the above. This perceived cheapening or deadening of the art leads some (I guess?) to deem it artless and then vie for the past (which 'postmodern' 'Continental' philosophy has some opinions about, lemme tell you).

I don't particularly agree with this position, but I like Frank O'Hara more than Samuel Taylor Coleridge (and I like Samuel Taylor Coleridge more than Ginsberg), just the same way that I would rather listen to disco than Mozart.

Though Mozart's got some good tracks, man.

I just can't dance to him.
Mondays
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Season Finals: Group Stage 1
IndyStarCraft 199
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 199
Railgan 133
BRAT_OK 85
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17918
Calm 5401
Hyuk 223
Sexy 46
Rock 19
League of Legends
Doublelift3262
JimRising 186
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King107
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor250
Other Games
summit1g5229
fl0m4055
Grubby3869
FrodaN2968
Mlord752
B2W.Neo598
Pyrionflax180
KnowMe92
OptimusSC211
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV940
gamesdonequick808
BasetradeTV152
angryscii46
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 40
• mYiSmile19
• Reevou 9
• Response 1
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 45
• FirePhoenix3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2106
Other Games
• Shiphtur182
• tFFMrPink 11
Upcoming Events
OSC
24m
MaxPax vs YoungYakov
Krystianer vs Shameless
GgMaChine vs Creature
LetaleX vs MiniZergUA
ReBellioN vs TBD
ArT vs HiGhDrA
Nicoract vs Azura
GSL
11h 24m
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
Patches Events
16h 24m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
18h 24m
BSL
22h 24m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
OSC
1d 3h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Classic vs Lambo
Clem vs Maru
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Serral vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
Replay Cast
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.