• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:35
CEST 20:35
KST 03:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo6Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Updates to The Core/Core Lite for v5.0.16?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) GSL CK #4 20-21th June Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Data needed BW General Discussion VPN experiences
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia {D-2} Late to making 20.06.2026 memorable [p]94718
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6794 users

Music and the Art of Form - Page 3

Blogs > Mellotron
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
phosphorylation
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2935 Posts
December 19 2010 08:08 GMT
#41
I feel like he is not arguing against postmodern music, per say (I doubt he is even knowledgeable about postmodern art). Instead, he is attempting to argue against postmodern conditoin or "attitude," which I do agree with. Of course, his arguments are not entirely convincing.
Buy prints of my photographs at Redbubble -> http://www.redbubble.com/people/shoenberg3
jon arbuckle
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada443 Posts
December 19 2010 08:27 GMT
#42
On December 19 2010 15:07 Chef wrote:
I think I've tried to respond to the modernist comment like six times now and deleted it every time. There really isn't a good way to argue about art. All I can say is that modernism/post-modernism is one of the most important movements in art to ever take place. It's been incredibly liberating and allowed creators to invoke feelings which in the past would have been considered out of the realm of art. Imagine not being able to describe the gritty details of war, imagine where we'd be if war poets had never done that. That was art before modernism. Romantic poems about failed love and clouds and personal regrets. And before the romanticists, political poems that always tried to teach a lesson and never talked about the poet's feelings. Shifts in music have been similar.

One of the things modernism has really done for art is being able to express psychological disorders like PTSD and schizophrenia... If everything were nice and pleasing and obeyed the rules, it'd be really difficult to express that kind of stuff. But by being allowed to make jumps and sharp, unpleasant sounds, you can get a sense of stuff like that so much better.


Broadly speaking, modernism may be the most cold, unfeeling art movement. Its innovations are formal more than anything - e.g., twelve-tone composition, T.S. Eliot's 'object correlative', Dadaist self-consciousness, Cubism's many perspectives, the Crystal Goblet and grids and gestalt theory in de Stijl, all drawing upon and eviscerating the higher artistic subjects of the past - and mainly addressed, responded to, and concerned itself with 'high' art. The appropriation of modernist forms and the collapsing of high into low, further complicating the issue through the introduction of new perspectives, is what typifies postmodernism. What distinguishes modernism from postmodernism and both from (I guess) not-modern (and whether or not they're finite terms, whether modernism or postmodernism are states of mind) is open for debate. Like most, I will likely not attempt to make that distinction wholesale.

I will note that the hierarchy presumed upon for 'classical' forms of music that was maintained by Cage, Stockhausen, or Schoenberg was nearly destroyed by postmodernism in music, which to me takes hold with the Beatles, who were often collapsing Stockhausen, skiffle, and Phil Spector together, sometimes in the same song, and yet could not read sheet music. I think this is what bothers other people about the notion of 'postmodern' music? That it's somehow cheapened the art? Not unlike the change in purified imperative to form and scholarship some glorify in the evolution from romantic poetry (which is definitely not all about "failed love and clouds and personal regrets," man), frothing in an aggressive boil-over in modernist poetry (e.g. Ezra Pound's Cantos), and then evaporating outright in postmodern poetry, which some consider lazy or obscure or asinine or all in the above. This perceived cheapening or deadening of the art leads some (I guess?) to deem it artless and then vie for the past (which 'postmodern' 'Continental' philosophy has some opinions about, lemme tell you).

I don't particularly agree with this position, but I like Frank O'Hara more than Samuel Taylor Coleridge (and I like Samuel Taylor Coleridge more than Ginsberg), just the same way that I would rather listen to disco than Mozart.

Though Mozart's got some good tracks, man.

I just can't dance to him.
Mondays
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#119
Reynor vs Solar
RotterdaM957
IndyStarCraft 150
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 957
ByuN 485
IndyStarCraft 150
UpATreeSC 101
BRAT_OK 54
WinterStarcraft41
RushiSC 30
MindelVK 12
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3472
Soulkey 418
BeSt 203
ggaemo 95
actioN 60
scan(afreeca) 38
hero 35
Hyun 33
Free 32
Pusan 29
[ Show more ]
Rock 22
Counter-Strike
fl0m14561
byalli976
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu341
Other Games
singsing2954
Grubby2601
Beastyqt635
B2W.Neo356
C9.Mang0183
uThermal125
XaKoH 76
Mew2King70
Trikslyr52
QueenE40
FrodaN8
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream2130
Other Games
gamesdonequick818
StarCraft 2
angryscii 11
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix20
• 80smullet 16
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2694
Counter-Strike
• C_a_k_e 2103
• Shiphtur278
Other Games
• imaqtpie802
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Spring Champion…
16h 25m
GSL
17h 25m
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
1d 5h
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1d 16h
GSL
1d 17h
Patches Events
1d 22h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.