• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:54
CEST 09:54
KST 16:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection1Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th93Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double1Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2
StarCraft 2
General
Changing from 12 to 8 is just asking for StarCraft TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue
Brood War
General
Soma's ASL Finals Review FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ VPN experiences Every Matchup's Top 5 Winrates (all ASLs & KSLs)
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Customization Drives Loyalty…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1883 users

Music and the Art of Form - Page 3

Blogs > Mellotron
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
phosphorylation
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2935 Posts
December 19 2010 08:08 GMT
#41
I feel like he is not arguing against postmodern music, per say (I doubt he is even knowledgeable about postmodern art). Instead, he is attempting to argue against postmodern conditoin or "attitude," which I do agree with. Of course, his arguments are not entirely convincing.
Buy prints of my photographs at Redbubble -> http://www.redbubble.com/people/shoenberg3
jon arbuckle
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada443 Posts
December 19 2010 08:27 GMT
#42
On December 19 2010 15:07 Chef wrote:
I think I've tried to respond to the modernist comment like six times now and deleted it every time. There really isn't a good way to argue about art. All I can say is that modernism/post-modernism is one of the most important movements in art to ever take place. It's been incredibly liberating and allowed creators to invoke feelings which in the past would have been considered out of the realm of art. Imagine not being able to describe the gritty details of war, imagine where we'd be if war poets had never done that. That was art before modernism. Romantic poems about failed love and clouds and personal regrets. And before the romanticists, political poems that always tried to teach a lesson and never talked about the poet's feelings. Shifts in music have been similar.

One of the things modernism has really done for art is being able to express psychological disorders like PTSD and schizophrenia... If everything were nice and pleasing and obeyed the rules, it'd be really difficult to express that kind of stuff. But by being allowed to make jumps and sharp, unpleasant sounds, you can get a sense of stuff like that so much better.


Broadly speaking, modernism may be the most cold, unfeeling art movement. Its innovations are formal more than anything - e.g., twelve-tone composition, T.S. Eliot's 'object correlative', Dadaist self-consciousness, Cubism's many perspectives, the Crystal Goblet and grids and gestalt theory in de Stijl, all drawing upon and eviscerating the higher artistic subjects of the past - and mainly addressed, responded to, and concerned itself with 'high' art. The appropriation of modernist forms and the collapsing of high into low, further complicating the issue through the introduction of new perspectives, is what typifies postmodernism. What distinguishes modernism from postmodernism and both from (I guess) not-modern (and whether or not they're finite terms, whether modernism or postmodernism are states of mind) is open for debate. Like most, I will likely not attempt to make that distinction wholesale.

I will note that the hierarchy presumed upon for 'classical' forms of music that was maintained by Cage, Stockhausen, or Schoenberg was nearly destroyed by postmodernism in music, which to me takes hold with the Beatles, who were often collapsing Stockhausen, skiffle, and Phil Spector together, sometimes in the same song, and yet could not read sheet music. I think this is what bothers other people about the notion of 'postmodern' music? That it's somehow cheapened the art? Not unlike the change in purified imperative to form and scholarship some glorify in the evolution from romantic poetry (which is definitely not all about "failed love and clouds and personal regrets," man), frothing in an aggressive boil-over in modernist poetry (e.g. Ezra Pound's Cantos), and then evaporating outright in postmodern poetry, which some consider lazy or obscure or asinine or all in the above. This perceived cheapening or deadening of the art leads some (I guess?) to deem it artless and then vie for the past (which 'postmodern' 'Continental' philosophy has some opinions about, lemme tell you).

I don't particularly agree with this position, but I like Frank O'Hara more than Samuel Taylor Coleridge (and I like Samuel Taylor Coleridge more than Ginsberg), just the same way that I would rather listen to disco than Mozart.

Though Mozart's got some good tracks, man.

I just can't dance to him.
Mondays
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
07:00
Season 5: Playoffs Day 6
Clem vs RogueLIVE!
herO vs TBD
Tasteless998
IntoTheiNu 633
Ryung 331
Rex93
3DClanTV 66
IndyStarCraft 48
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 998
Ryung 331
Rex 93
Livibee 87
IndyStarCraft 48
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 3433
Larva 303
JulyZerg 44
Noble 20
IntoTheRainbow 5
League of Legends
JimRising 663
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1303
Other Games
summit1g7642
Mew2King93
RuFF_SC238
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL224
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 23
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH120
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1228
• Stunt806
Upcoming Events
Maestros of the Game
5h 7m
SHIN vs Nicoract
Rogue vs Gerald
ByuN vs Shameless
Cure vs TriGGeR
OSC
5h 7m
IPSL
8h 7m
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
Showmatch
8h 7m
Percival vs Lambo
ByuN vs Clem
YoungYakov vs GuMiho
ByuN vs Creator
BSL
11h 7m
Wardi Open
1d 4h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
Murky Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.