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Bolded the point I was really trying to make with the post as to make it clear that it's not another piece of "esport vs sport" silliness. Perhaps would have been better off in one of those threads instead - apologies to the mods.
Inspired by:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176935
... and many others I'm sure.
^ The current "hot" topic on TL. I had posted a tidbit in that thread regarding this topic, but figured I had nothing better to do at work so I'm gonna write this out in a slightly more eloquent matter..
I've seen several threads regarding eSports in general implying that it really isn't different from sports as we know it today. In every thread there's the supporters of this distinction and there are others who vehemently argue that sport involves physical activity that games defining the eSports scene simply don't have.
Before I go further, my opinion is that it simply doesn't - and shouldn't - matter whether what we do here should be considered a "sport" or not, and that it's sad to be in a culture where there are those who feel we have to be categorized into some arbitrarily defined group of activities to feel like we're doing something legitimate.
You can all check the dictionary for a definition of "sport". More than likely you'll see something with "physical activity" or "physical exertion". Do most of the games on the eSports scene have that? Well... we can argue the degree to which APM and reflexes in SC constitute physical ability to death. Rather than doing this, some people bring up chess as an example of an IOC recognized "sport" which doesn't seem to require as much "physical activity". I ask: who gave the IOC power to designate what's a sport and what's not? Are we so braindead as to take their word as law and let it be that? I'm sure there are thousands of other arguments everywhere regarding how one thing is more sporty than another, and this debate simply won't end, because people have their own ideas of how tough something is to do and what a perfect sport would be.
Going back to my point however... why do we want SC to be recognized as a "sport" so badly?
Do people honestly think that if SC was somehow irrefutably argued to be a "sport", that we'll be able to go to some random person in a bar and talk SC and have the resulting conversation be any different than what it would be now? Probably not.
Out of curiosity, I just want to hear some reasoning behind this. What's with the obsession of being recognized as a sport? If whoever coined the term "esports" had instead used something like "professional gaming competition" instead, would we still be going through these pointless arguments? Does "professional SC2 competition" really entail something that's so different from "professional esports"? Not really, but it sure as hell doesn't come with all the semantics.
In the end though, who cares? Who cares what we're called? Why do people get so offended at comparing "esports" to "sports" just because of that word? For me, call it whatever the hell you want, I'm proud to be playing SC2, and more than happy to follow the scene too. It's time we moved on from these petty arguments, pointless classifications, and got together as a community to just enjoy the game and the competition that comes with it - it's the best way to move forward really.
Oh, and for those in Toronto, GO TO THE GSL3 SCREENING!!!
 
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BW is a sport. sc2 is not. sc2 does not have any pro teams or any pro players. The only real sponser that sc2 has right now is blizz- the company that made the game. Sc2 has not been around long enough, is not balanced (the balance issue will take forever because of the expansions the game is waiting on). So for now sc2 is just a game, we have to wait and see if it will ever become a sport.
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Calgary25990 Posts
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On December 15 2010 06:55 Ramiel wrote:
BW is a sport. sc2 is not. sc2 does not have any pro teams or any pro players. The only real sponser that sc2 has right now is blizz- the company that made the game. Sc2 has not been around long enough, is not balanced (the balance issue will take forever because of the expansions the game is waiting on). So for now sc2 is just a game, we have to wait and see if it will ever become a sport.
I'll let the Team Liquid pros know. I mean, if this was an attempt at trolling, it was kind of half-assed. EG, oGs, fOu, and a whole bunch of other teams are already up and running... did you watch the GSL?
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Again? This has been posted so many times before. Use search function.
This is like the 'BW IS BETTER THAN SC2' that spawned so many thread/blog but bring nothing new.
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thanks for the input, i have read two of those three links you sent. to be fair, i'm not arguing at all whether SC is a sport or not like those threads. i'm trying to argue that the "sport" tag shouldn't matter. so it's not really a repeat of those discussions.
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It doesn't matter yet you people keep bringing it up. It's a silly debate.
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On December 15 2010 07:06 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 06:55 Ramiel wrote:
BW is a sport. sc2 is not. sc2 does not have any pro teams or any pro players. The only real sponser that sc2 has right now is blizz- the company that made the game. Sc2 has not been around long enough, is not balanced (the balance issue will take forever because of the expansions the game is waiting on). So for now sc2 is just a game, we have to wait and see if it will ever become a sport. I'll let the Team Liquid pros know. I mean, if this was an attempt at trolling, it was kind of half-assed. EG, oGs, fOu, and a whole bunch of other teams are already up and running... did you watch the GSL?
no gsl bores me to death. were are the corporate sponsors? where are any notable sponsors. Pro teams don't count- they don't have any salary and the only way they get money is through tournaments. Which other than gsl don't give out enough money for anyone to live comfortably. So no. SC2 does not have a pro players that are payed to play the game.
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Calgary25990 Posts
On December 15 2010 07:07 fush wrote:thanks for the input, i have read two of those three links you sent. to be fair, i'm not arguing at all whether SC is a sport or not like those threads. i'm trying to argue that the "sport" tag shouldn't matter. so it's not really a repeat of those discussions.
I know. Don't you think it's more appropriate to bring it up in a thread about the discussion, then suddenly breaking it out into another thread and asking "Does this matter?" I do.
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boxer makes like 200k a year from sc2 right?
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On December 15 2010 07:06 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 06:55 Ramiel wrote:
BW is a sport. sc2 is not. sc2 does not have any pro teams or any pro players. The only real sponser that sc2 has right now is blizz- the company that made the game. Sc2 has not been around long enough, is not balanced (the balance issue will take forever because of the expansions the game is waiting on). So for now sc2 is just a game, we have to wait and see if it will ever become a sport. I'll let the Team Liquid pros know. I mean, if this was an attempt at trolling, it was kind of half-assed. EG, oGs, fOu, and a whole bunch of other teams are already up and running... did you watch the GSL?
Many people consider pro teams only Korean teams, while many Koreans don't even play sc2 -_-.
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It's an e-Sport. No point trying to pidgeonhole it into a word that it doesn't completely fit.
Honestly, any extended discussion over whether something fits any definition irritates me a ton. Such discussions are usually ridiculously pointless.
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I vote close this, and copy+paste it to a current thread. I am not a mod, though, so I have no say in that matter, and TL is not a democracy, is it?
I believe it is a sport. I do not believe it matters. If you enjoy something, do it. However, moderation is key.
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On December 15 2010 07:14 GobIin wrote:
boxer makes like 200k a year from sc2 right?
I think the rest gets to starve if they don't win any tournys right?
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On December 15 2010 08:02 Bill Murray wrote:
I vote close this, and copy+paste it to a current thread. I am not a mod, though, so I have no say in that matter, and TL is not a democracy, is it?
I believe it is a sport. I do not believe it matters. If you enjoy something, do it. However, moderation is key.
My exact feelings. Nothing new is brought to discussion here, so it could have just gone in another thread. Yes it is a sport, no it does not matter imo
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On December 15 2010 06:55 Ramiel wrote:
BW is a sport. sc2 is not. sc2 does not have any pro teams or any pro players. The only real sponser that sc2 has right now is blizz- the company that made the game. Sc2 has not been around long enough, is not balanced (the balance issue will take forever because of the expansions the game is waiting on). So for now sc2 is just a game, we have to wait and see if it will ever become a sport.
Check every single dictionary and it will tell you that by definition a sport is an activity that involves physical exercise so no, BW isn't a sport either.
Like the OP said though, it's just a useless way of categorizing something and the argument itself is pretty trivial
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We don't need to be called "sport" we're ESPORTS.
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On December 15 2010 08:23 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 06:55 Ramiel wrote:
BW is a sport. sc2 is not. sc2 does not have any pro teams or any pro players. The only real sponser that sc2 has right now is blizz- the company that made the game. Sc2 has not been around long enough, is not balanced (the balance issue will take forever because of the expansions the game is waiting on). So for now sc2 is just a game, we have to wait and see if it will ever become a sport. Check every single dictionary and it will tell you that by definition a sport is an activity that involves physical exercise so no, BW isn't a sport either.
Meh. A electric car is a car. An electronic sport is a sport. StarCraft is an electronic sport. o.O
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On December 15 2010 08:35 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 08:23 SubtleArt wrote:On December 15 2010 06:55 Ramiel wrote:
BW is a sport. sc2 is not. sc2 does not have any pro teams or any pro players. The only real sponser that sc2 has right now is blizz- the company that made the game. Sc2 has not been around long enough, is not balanced (the balance issue will take forever because of the expansions the game is waiting on). So for now sc2 is just a game, we have to wait and see if it will ever become a sport. Check every single dictionary and it will tell you that by definition a sport is an activity that involves physical exercise so no, BW isn't a sport either. Meh. A electric car is a car. An electronic sport is a sport. StarCraft is an electronic sport. o.O
This man speaks truth o.o
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If even the Starcraft community itself has this much negativity toward calling it a sport, then I can only imagine the mainstream audience laughing even harder at it. Regardless of whether it actually deserves to be called a sport, calling it one may actually harm the growth of the scene by getting those who do not understand it to go "What? A video game can't be a sport, what are these people thinking? What a joke!". It would be easier to get more people into it if we didn't first have to convince them that sitting at a computer can be called a sport. So in that sense, I do believe it matters because it could actually bring even more unfounded negativity towards Starcraft due to the ignorance surrounding it.
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>.>
Honestly, I don't really care if something is a sport or not. It just adds awesomeness to the fact that I play that particular game that's a sport.
Just have fun. No reason why we should be all crazy about it.
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It's a competitive game. But, you know, if you consider nascar a sport, I might be willing to call sc2 a sport.
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On December 15 2010 07:14 GobIin wrote:
boxer makes like 200k a year from sc2 right?
It's been around 5 months I believe and with GSL winnings I think he is around 209k
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On December 15 2010 09:07 G_G wrote:
If even the Starcraft community itself has this much negativity toward calling it a sport, then I can only imagine the mainstream audience laughing even harder at it. Regardless of whether it actually deserves to be called a sport, calling it one may actually harm the growth of the scene by getting those who do not understand it to go "What? A video game can't be a sport, what are these people thinking? What a joke!". It would be easier to get more people into it if we didn't first have to convince them that sitting at a computer can be called a sport. So in that sense, I do believe it matters because it could actually bring even more unfounded negativity towards Starcraft due to the ignorance surrounding it.
Well you don't need something designated as a sport for it to be successful. Likewise, just because something is a sport doesn't mean it's going to encourage more people to participate... look at half the olympic sports.
I just felt like venting when I wrote this... didn't see the point of all of these arguments on whether SC2 should be a sport or not. People on both sides have the same arguments pointing out "flaws" in other sports... like I see some saying baseball or hockey players don't need sharp minds, or others saying SC2 or chess players don't need to be physically fit. That says something about the poster's lack of knowledge or engagement in an activity more so than the truth. How many mentally disabled MLB or NHL players do we have? How much physical stamina do you think BW pros or chess have if they didn't have to hit the gym once in a while? Point is you need a bit of both for everything we do, some lean towards one aspect more than the others.. but arguing which activities are "superior" in a sense to another is just silly.
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EPT
