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5003 Posts
I noticed that there has been a lot of posts recently, of people posting their opinions on IP rights. I'm posting this in hopes to remind everyone of their roots.
It does not matter who you support. You can support Blizzard during this entire endeavor, you can support KeSPA simply because you want more Proleague. You can despise Blizzard for being a bit overprotective with their rights to the point of shutting down the BW scene, while you can call it "just desserts" for KeSPA for all of their incompetencies and fouls they've committed.
Please stop talking. Just wait for the results of the trial.
The point is this. In the end, we're all just fans. Realizing this is rather important, because I think a lot of this is lost as the SC2 scene and the SC scene is getting more and more polarized. I don't understand why we can't just realize that, we are, all in the end, fans of the e-Sports, regardless of what games our favorite players are playing.
There is one thing I would like to ask to the Starcraft 2 fans. Please understand where we, the Brood War fans, come from. All we want, in the very end is more Proleague and Starleague. We simply wish to have more of what we have had for ages. And yes, because we are fans, we may go a bit too far sometimes -- at times, condemning Blizzard, or to even disregarding Blizzard's claim to their rights. We may be cursing Gretech. And we may look like we're supporting KeSPA, who has, yes, committed their shares of crimes. Please be understanding of this fact, and please, stop trolling. It gets old. It gets me really really annoyed to see that one Starcraft 2 fan going into a BW related topic, and wishing the downfall of Brood War. To some of us, supporting Blizzard means that you want the death of Brood War. Things like this further polarize the fanbase, which is definitely, not the best thing that can happen for e-Sports.
I want to ask the BW fans the same thing. Please understand why you're so vehement in this, and just realize, in the end, you're in it simply because you want more Brood War. Honestly, we don't know enough about the insider details to make a proper judgment on who to condemn completely. There's no need to "Boycott SC2" or hate on Blizzard, Gretech for this. No one is clean in this matter, and honestly, the more you engage in this IP rights discussion, the more polarized the community will be between BW and SC2.
All we want, in the end, is for BW to go as far as it can -- as long as the players still want to play BW, wishing for the demise for the scene for whatever reason is going to hurt the players, especially if you only want BW to die so they move onto SC2.
Support the players. Don't support or hate the organizations behind this. In the end, taking sides in the debate isn't going to do any good, and all the amounts of internet lawyering is just going to get people angry and attract more trolls. Remember that, in the end, we are all just fans of an addicting videogame, and there's no reason to try and bite each other's head off just because of this entire overdrawn retarded negotiations.
let's keep things in perspective guys
 
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Interesting post, thanks Milkis.
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Great, great point. I only played SC in its early years and really just for the single player. I will never play SC:BW multiplayer but I sure as shit enjoy watching it. I also really love me some SC2 and when it comes down to it if I can have both then my world is in a better place.
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Well said!
Also, you are awesome =)
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All in all I'm just another frustrated fan.
Thanks a lot for the post, Milkis.
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Well said milkis.
I generally avoid posting in threads like that, because I know it's full of shit posting. But sometimes I just get so pissed at some of the post that I just need to respond, only fueling the flames. Well I've been more polite at my responses lately though 
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There's a good reason why you have that quality poster star!
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I just remember back in the day when KESPA was the big bad monster to BW fans everywhere. How much the scene has changed in a short time.
5/5 on the thread though. The BW > SC2 and SC2 > BW trolling really needs to end.
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Great post, I definitely agree. Many fans, including me have raged so hard about this. Nice to read such a neutral type post
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I agree. Two organizations just trying to make a (dubiously) honest buck 
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Well written Milkis. Sums things up beautifully.
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Agreed. People really need to stop demonizing the two companies. Both sides had screwups, and screaming about who's right and who's wrong isn't going to help anything.
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United States7481 Posts
100% agree, as somebody still really into BW but also a huge sc2 fan, it angers me to see people so unreasonable on both sides of the issue.
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They're both great games, and I wish they could co-exist. SC2 fans should not be retaliatory in worry that BW might still post a threat to SC2's popularity, and just hope for the best for the BW fans, because it really is a great game. SC2 is going no where, that is for certain, so let's hope that BW won't be going anywhere for a while, too.
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I fully agree with your post, Milkis. That was very well-written; no one else could have summed up our feelings on this better. Let's all just get along, shall we?
BW forever. And SC2 too (but not at the expense of another).
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Great post. Sucks to see bw leave, I wish it would stay along with sc2, but that seems unlikely. BW still felt fresh after so long, died too young imo.
Imagine what would happen if bw was still being played professionally world wide 50 years from now. I'm not saying it will, but think of the caliber of play and different styles we would have then ^_^
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nicely said, you're totally right
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Completely agree. As a fan of both games and pro leagues it ticks me off when one side bashes the other wishing it to die. BOTH sides do this, and it's really splitting the community. SC2 elitists need to stop dissing BW and BW elitists need to stop dissing SC2. They're both fantastic games and if one is not your cup of tea, respect the fact that for others it is.
As always, thanks for all your contributions Milkis.
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konadora
Singapore66183 Posts
finally someone says what i've had in mind.
thank you milkis
ilu <3
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
cool, good points. but i still get enraged every time i read a news about something new threatening the bw scene
so sad.
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Finally a cool, level-headed post. Your post gives me hope in humanity milkis
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Croatia9510 Posts
You're becoming my new favorite person on teamliquid, Milkis.
Nice post.
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I'm with the same attitude. It's surprising that Blizzard / Gom can be seen as the oppressor here, and that it's easier to side with Kespa which has a history of being disliked. This was my attitude until Blizzard became more open just recently on the results of the talks and their attitude towards the concept of competitive sc1 in Korea. I'm just waiting to see now and hope for a fair outcome.
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Estonia4504 Posts
Overall I'd agree with the post if it didn't make feel entirely powerless and as if I'm just letting the thing I love get utterly destroyed. The SC1 pro-scene is something wonderfully unique that I bet most didn't even appreciate until it was threatened with being shut down.
That's how I justify writing posts that defend KeSPA and Proleague. Seems silly in retrospect, but I'm certain I'll do so again and again, because love IS silly. I try to avoid bashing as much as possible and focus my energy on PL material.
Maybe what I'm doing is bad for E-sports and SC2-s future, but the way SC2 is turning out to be and the way Blizzard seems to take the game, I'm not even sure whether I want it to succeed. Especially when the players of my beloved sport are forced into something I despise.
I just wish I could do more.
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You're too cool-headed for a young Korean, I am having my doubts. =P
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idk.... people will get emotional when something they loved for so long is in jeopardy of just completely vanishing, and I think its not a bad idea to have a thread or to to just vent and scream about it. Might even go as far as to say its healthy.
Of course, when it gets to a point where every other thread is talking about it, then it gets ridiculous. Maybe there should be a sticky where people can go and say whatever they think about IP rights and this whole incident. I mean sometimes I feel better when I write something out, even though no one else will read it.
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Please Spotlight this thread. TeamLiquid is one of the best forums I have ever visited, and I don't wan it to lose its sanity.
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On October 24 2010 12:18 Milkis wrote:
I don't understand why we can't just realize that, we are, all in the end, fans of the e-Sports, regardless of what games our favorite players are playing.
Wrong. Not surprised you don't understand.
I am a die-hard BW fan who could never get into SC2 even if all of the BW progamers have moved onto it. It's just a terrible game both to watch and play.
It's not about the players, or "E-Sports" for that matter. It's always been about Broodwar.
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5/5
Proleague has begun at least its a consolation for BW fans.
Lets see what the trial decision is
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
very good post
a few weeks ago i was thinking about making a post on this very exact subject/reality with a more of a 'you guys are fucking idiots' tone, but ultimately i realized it was futile and not worth my time
ty
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On October 24 2010 14:21 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
I just remember back in the day when KESPA was the big bad monster to BW fans everywhere. How much the scene has changed in a short time.
5/5 on the thread though. The BW > SC2 and SC2 > BW trolling really needs to end.
Wait what ? What do you mean by that ? Because Kespa is still the bad monster here... Even though Blizzard should've done the ip right things long before their sc2's release (and they did multiple times afaik, just that they always found and arrangement i think), they have the right to do what they own.
For those who aren't clear about what i'm saying : I've loved the sc/bw scene since it's early stage. Remember KBK ? That's where i came from. If you don't know this era just don't bother reading it.
Kespa did so many stupid things, except maybe on the early stage but it has gotten worse since then.
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On October 29 2010 09:21 RaiZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 14:21 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
I just remember back in the day when KESPA was the big bad monster to BW fans everywhere. How much the scene has changed in a short time.
5/5 on the thread though. The BW > SC2 and SC2 > BW trolling really needs to end. Wait what ? What do you mean by that ? Because Kespa is still the bad monster here... Even though Blizzard should've done the ip right things long before their sc2's release (and they did multiple times afaik, just that they always found and arrangement i think), they have the right to do what they own. For those who aren't clear about what i'm saying : I've loved the sc/bw scene since it's early stage. Remember KBK ? That's where i came from. If you don't know this era just don't bother reading it. Kespa did so many stupid things, except maybe on the early stage but it has gotten worse since then.
I don't think you got the point of this thread. You're stiring up another flame war with this post. ;;
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I think you should just take the kennigit approach and lock the thread when people cant behave cos theres nothing constructive to be discussed anyways.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Hi and thanks for the post. You're right in many things, but... I don't feel like buying or playing SC2. I don't think it has anything new. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I think Blizzard with their recent actions only made a final impact on a decision not to play SC2, because it's soething unfair they do, and I don't want to support such a company. (Anyone ready to flame, please think, is it really good of them? To backstab community that gave them their popularity in strategies? They might be right in lawyeristic terms, but i don't speak about it, i speak only about the COMMON sense and moral. So if you don't want to say that what they do is good of them - please don't write anything)
I just forgot that SC2 existed and played BroodWar until they came with all this legal actions, to be honest. It doesn't mean I was in any way hating SC2 or Blizzard. I simply didn't care that they existed, although I respect the developers and managers that were there when SC was made (most of them are not in Blizz anymore).
I just get angry at their actions. They are not right. And I can not help feeling that I dislike SC2 and all stuff they make because of this. We can't help our feelings, you know. So, I wasn't going to play sc2, but i had possibility to change my opinion, but now i don't feel it ever happens. =\
I'm not going to a war on anyone or like that, i simply want to point the people who put the blind eye on Blizz actions and say "we support them they're cool", that, in some aspect, they're wrong. In some important aspect.
And I have a perfect right to boycott SC2, don't I? That's also (vice versa) not a reason to bite MY head and go to a war on me. But, you know, I don't want to boycott or anything like that. I'd prefer to forget about existence of 2nd starcraft, only think that doesn't let me so, is Blizzard's actions. But I hope I will be able to forget about them and get more perfect Starcraft games such as was Killer vs Mind last match (and especially as was Jaedong vs Flash @ tau cross on WCG!!!! :O )
I really hope it goes this way!
And people who bought sc2, will just play it and have fun.
And about way to support the players - i asked you in that thread about suing: answer me please if you can )))
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
LOL Milkis... sorry me i am stupid... It was not you who linked me here. dammit >_<'''
So basically what I've been saying:
BTW, how can we really make our "support" go to be seen really by the players? I'd like to. For example to support Jaedong and tell him that he rocks and must become a Bonjwa. :D Please answer in comments to your post that you linked here )))
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EPT
