That was such an amazing game ... if only WCG hadn't gone and spoiled it with their TERRIBLE English commentary. I don't speak a word of Korean, but i preferred to listen to the Korean commentators because they actually were excited, and if they said something stupid at least i didn't have to suffer through it .

T0fuuu

Australia2275 Posts

October 22 2010 09:23 GMT

#22

Dark swarm was fun to play against?

Tyrran

France777 Posts

October 22 2010 09:49 GMT

#23

So let me get it rigth.

Assuming two good players.

In BW, the zergs blindly Hatch before Pool, Terrans FE, puts pressure but do not deal any damage because of 3/4 sunkens, defends the mutas harass and transition into late game.

IN Sc2, The zergs blindly Hatch before pool, Terrans Fast Expand, puts pressure but do not deal any damage because of 1 spine, queen and/or roaches, defend the muta harass and transition into late game.

Yet one is the best matchup is the world, and the other is the most boring one ?

Having played both matchup, as a mediocre ( D+ ) player in BW and below average ( 1450 diamond) zerg player in SC2, i really feel like they are pretty much the same to me. We do no longer have dark swarm/Lurkers, but fungal/baneling serves pretty much the same purpose. I get the same feeling that every small mistake can cost me the game ( misplaced Spine crawler vs Blue hellions is the worst T_T). Mutas are a bit weaker than in BW, but still can stall a terran long enough ( unless he is going for a 1 base tank/marine timing attack) for you to take a third and get ground forces to deal with the Terran. I do like all Z matchups now

. Macro all the way =D

d1v

Sweden868 Posts

October 22 2010 13:39 GMT

#24

Amen brother! From a Terran perspective, I can confirm that TvZ is not the same in SC2 and I miss the old BW TvZ. I've even tried to "emulate" the old TvZ (M&M, Tank, Medivac) style, but it gets crushed..

corumjhaelen

France6884 Posts

October 22 2010 14:32 GMT

#25

For those who speak about evolution, TvZ was already awesome in 2001. Well Boxer vs Yellow @OSL was awesome. And the builds had nothing to do with today's build.
<3 YellOw low drone count style =)
Or Xellos vs YellOw @Olympus OSL...
Etc
That being said, I don't play sc2, so I have no idea wether your right.
5 stars for your description of BW ZvT =)

TurboDreams

United States427 Posts

October 22 2010 15:34 GMT

#26

If you go for a 1 rax FE in SC2, surrender any hopes for mapcontrol. Speedlings and Banelings do real well to hold out into midgame, then there is Mutas holding out for Infestors. Lategame is the same just with Ultras running around.

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

October 22 2010 15:44 GMT

#27

I feel like this a pretty fundamental issue in SC2 in general... once you fall behind, it is really hard to come back. It feels like the first big battle determines the outcome of the game a lot more than it did in BW. Unless your opponent was dominating you, pretty much every matchup was a bit of a seesaw in BW.

I enjoy 2v2 SC2 more for this reason- it is a seesaw, more often than not.

ArbAttack

Canada198 Posts

October 22 2010 16:47 GMT

#28

All matchups in SC2 are like PvP in BW.

I think that's a pretty accurate description.

seRapH

United States9830 Posts

October 22 2010 17:12 GMT

#29

On October 23 2010 01:47 ArbAttack wrote:
All matchups in SC2 are like PvP in BW.

I think that's a pretty accurate description.

i resent that. PvP in BW can be really exciting. storm/reaver drops alone are better than anything sc2 has. throw in the shitton of viable build orders, micro intensity, and beautiful explosions that don't exist anywhere in sc2 and now every sc2 mu looks like 2v2 in bw w/o the explosions.

LuckyFool

United States9015 Posts

October 22 2010 18:11 GMT

#30

PvP in broodwar was good but it was also equally bad in the sense there were some build orders u just outright lose to and it was definitely the biggest rock/paper/scissors matchup in all of broodwar. (ZvZ is a pretty close second) and unfortunately there are tons of rock/paper/scissors situations in sc2 throughout every matchup.

Emon_

3925 Posts

October 22 2010 18:28 GMT

#31

On October 22 2010 15:57 Lightswarm wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDj0DkFYAEA

This is why BW is superior

That game. . . It's like watching a 20min Jackie Chan fight scene complete with wall jumps, roof fights and stopping rush hour traffic to fight some more. Sorry SC2, I can't hear you over how awesome BW is.

KiLL_ORdeR

United States1518 Posts

October 24 2010 21:13 GMT

#32

On October 22 2010 16:10 GenesisX wrote:

Show nested quote +

? Still seems like the Zergs are the minority.

OT: Zerg player here. I kinda understand what you're going through. Even I can't fathom a counter to muta/ling/bling/infestor...

I don't think you understand. Muta/ling/infestor/bling get's owned hard by a biomech midgame push with marine/thor/banshee. I can win TvZ's, that's not the problem.

The point is that it's boring as fuck. The entire game is about zerg surviving early game harass, terran does a midgame push. If it works, you win. if it doesn't work, you lose. in any good game, there are several points where you can win or lose, and it relies on your execution and game knowledge. SC2 TvZ relies on the Terran executing his timing push properly, and then a-moving, and zerg can't really stop it. i won like 6 TvZ's in a row yesterday doing this on closeish positions, but if I do spawn further away, it gets harder and harder.

Zergneedsfood

United States10671 Posts

October 24 2010 21:29 GMT

#33

Agreed. Bio TvZ was the best thing that I've ever seen. It was perhaps the most entertaining match up in Starcraft 1, and one of my favorite ones to play.

For Starcraft 2.....I can see your point in that it's not as fun.....I guess my biggest gripe is just that the epicness of everything is gone. It's now a big fling fest....if that makes sense.

No0n

United States355 Posts

October 25 2010 00:26 GMT

#34

I also feel the same way, TvZ just isnt as fun. No more 3 way split, no more boxer winning against 3 lurkers with 8 marines 4 medics, or nada's medic wall. It is just not the same, it's possible to emulate it but it just doesnt feel the same. The stronger variant is now 2 rax FE instead of 1 rax, there are no more lurkers where you have to spread out, and no more mutas that totally own your turrets. People just sit back, make some units, and move out. There is no map control or patroling the center of the map trying to deny expansions.