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Being Competitive Part 2

Blogs > MightyAtom
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MightyAtom
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Korea (South)1897 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-14 06:47:50
October 19 2010 15:07 GMT
#1
Looking to Fail to Learn

I love Judo, in Korea they call it Yudo and they refuse to use the Japanese terms, but its the same. Korean training style after you're 18 or so is very repetitive happy, you do the same thing over and over again and the basic steps and you learn the complex moves very very slowly (that is, if you are at a good place); so earning your belt/grade isn't a priority, but rather ensuring that what you do is perfect in technique first.
Now if you're not dedicated, this gets old fast, but once you get to that level, where everything is instinctive, well its like breathing and you start to learn everything faster as everything is simply an adjustment from the basics you learned for 2 years. So what happens is, you rarely get caught because your techniques really cancel each other out, so when you do get caught, its really because that guy is better or knows something you don't know.

And it's a joyous day.
Because now you are going to learn something new that you didn't before. Because you were not practicing to win, you were practicing to simply be better.

When I went to visit my parents in Canada last year, I went to a Judo dojo to training for fun. And in Canada, they do all this Judo ground game, which I never learned because I'm a very low level and I've only focused on throws and breaking my own falls and thats it. Now here at this Canadian dojo, they do 1/4 warm, 1/4 fall, 1/4 throws, 1/4 submissions. Now, I'm fine with everything up to throws, but the submissions, I have no idea at all what they are etc. I've never done an arm bar or whatever, throw em, then done.

So, I'm a heavy guy, not big, but heavy and strong (at pretty fat nowadays lol), 178 cm and 116kg (5'10, 255lb). While 30 kg is fat, the rest is muscle and bone from years of playing rugby, but I don't look 116 kg and I don't look that strong because all my weight is in my back and legs. So anyway, I'm doing fine standing up, but when it gets to teh ground, I'm still holding my own because I'm just so damn heavy. So I get caught here and there, but nothing outrageous.

So then the instructor, who is just a big mountain of man says, 'lets spar on the ground' and he is big, fast, stronger, taller and he is a really great instructor and he completely owns me, destroys me, toys with me and I love it; I'm like, 'wow, that is so amazing, can you do it again', and he is crushing me, I can feel my spine get cracked here and there and I feel dizzy cause I'm getting choked out and I can't help but smile. I am doing everything I can not to be submitted in less than 20 seconds, but I can't, and its so great to be owned that hard because I know he is that skillful and I'm getting an opportunity to know to experience this really high level of judo submissions (granted I'm a noob at this, but I can tell how talented and experience he is). And the master has this incredible look on his face that I've shocked him in my reaction.

I know a lot of North Americans, they get upset during practice, they get angry for losing and when they practice, sometimes they forget it's a practice and go overboard or even get into fights; this never happens in Korea. Never. So anyway, I guess he thought that he would have to break me in a bit so I could recognize how good he was and that I didn't stand a chance and let me go through the natural stages of trying too hard then being humiliated by trying too hard then be humble to learn, but actually, it was such a great experience to just see his level of expertise that it made my entire trip!

Smart People are Bad Competitors

The problem with being naturally good at something is two fold. #1 generally the first thought you have is better than 99% of what your peers could think of after 30 mins to an hour of thought. #2. It is hard to find a true teacher that can beat your ass so soundly that you're unable to justify your loss and start to be humble enough to learn as much as you can from that person.

Now, with issue #1; this is all well and good when you're with the general population, but when you're head to head with guys who are just as smart as you and 10 years of experience on top of that; no matter what you can think of, they've actually done it and done it well.

But if they are in competition with you, they aren't going to say, 'hey retard, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about' maybe in a SC2 forum they will, but not in real life. In real life, they will let you shoot yourself in the foot multiple times until you die of blood loss or until you are embarrassed into complete submission and loss of confidence. If they tell you want you're doing wrong, then you're still not in the highest level of competitors. So you need to know what you know to understand what you don't know- meaning, you can't assume that others don't know more than you in any given situation- you can't assume that they are the retards because unless you have already proven yourself in that field, then for all intent purposes, until you prove otherwise, you are the retard.

As for point #2; besides being totally out to lunch, as in point #1, it is hard to completely be open and say, while I maybe partial right here, fundamentally I am wrong. The more specialized you get, the more difficult it is to say that, because in many respects, when you are wrong, its not a big mental jump for you to see how you were wrong, just a slight difference in approach, but that is where you are dead wrong.

The more intelligent and competitive you are, the more the slight incremental gain are. Because likely, there are no earth shattering revelations left in the game for you, but if you don't say clearly, 'ok, i fucked up' even if it wasn't a total fuck up, then you can't ever clearly distill what you've just learned. So, lets say, you have 5 years of experience in your field, top of the game, but its unlikely you'll find anyone to spank your ass so soundly that you'll really recognize what you could be learning.

Stop Justifying and then You'll Learn when you're at that Level

There is no gain from justifying a loss or a setback. No gain at all except for ego, even when you were not totally wrong, but the fact that you were wrong at all, says, you weren't able to fully tackle the competitive task in the first place, regardless of environmental issues or issues outside of your control, especially if someone was able to be successful and you weren't. Now I'm not saying beat yourself up, but intelligent people never reach the absolute top of their field because they are able to rightly justify everything, when in fact, even if you were to be injustly blamed for something, it at least put you in a position to really and honestly assess where was the possible error in improvement.


STFU, Being Wrong is the Only Time you can Learn

When I get a new intern to train, I have to break them first, because these kids were picked because they were either from a privileged background or cause they are damn smart. So whenever they do something where the result wasn't perfect, I blame them, and cut them off before they start to justify why it turned out like that. Of course I'm being unreasonable, of course its not completely their fault, but if i don't do that, THEY NEVER LEARN ANYTHING. Seriously, because in their minds, the never actually took time to reflect on what was wrong, instead they get this false sense that it was just an honest mistake and it won't happen again. But the fact that it did happen, shows that they weren't flawless, so me being reasonable here takes the focus off the mistake. Instead they will have this false sense of confidence that they can do the work at my level but with some random mistakes here and there which could happen to anyone. But actually, THEY NEVER HAPPEN TO ME and these mistakes will never happen to anyone at my level. So the reality is, they aren't random mistakes, they are very incremental small mistakes, but mistakes nevertheless than need to be completely addressed or they will NEVER BE improvement at that level.

I'm Still an Intern of Life
So, I talk with my investors, some conversations, mostly good, but I had one with an investor and he basically just attacked me, saying that him and his team laughed at my forecast and thought I was either trying to rip him off or just in fantasy land. I'm not a young guy, so I tell him, obviously I wasn't trying to rip him off and that the numbers were based on real market and revenue figures that I have have and have done. But I missed the point. He didn't say all that extreme stuff because he didn't know that I did give him an honest and sincere proposal (if that wasnt' the case, he would probably never have spoken to me again), rather, he was trying to teach me something about setting up a responsible cash flow business structure (which took me about 1 month to realize what he was really saying) and it was it was the right approach by the investor because my head was so big because I know I'm one of the best in the industry, but that being said, I still am relatively young for business and especially since I' haven't proven myself outside of the corporate environment. It was an ass kicking and humiliation I needed in order to work in the new sphere that I am with private investors and asset management firms. Now was I totally wrong, no I wasn't, but if I had just justified it, would I have ever really focused on what I did wrong and learn from it and really be a better competitor, no I would have missed it completely and I did miss his point completely for a full month. Lucky for me, he cares.

To compete: to prepare to do battle for your Ambition
So a main point of this is: you need to know that most times, you have the benefit of preparation and practice and during that time you need to learn to be competitive and focus on your mistakes. The reality is, you can be in a competitive mindset all the time, but really being competitive is an action of both preparation and the actual battle and in my mind is a 90/10 split and the real mind set of being competitive is ambition. Not to simply win a competition for ego, but to go the distance and be the undisputed best in what you do or at least pointing in that direction.

****
Administrator-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
g0G0RandOm
Profile Joined December 2004
Switzerland80 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-19 15:52:31
October 19 2010 15:46 GMT
#2
Well i am a 4th Degree Black Belt i just want to say that if you get competitive in judo you better be prepared because the more you climb the harder it will be, you will learn alot since you will lose alots well keep going
Cry me a river
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
October 19 2010 15:47 GMT
#3
this logic and mentality really applies to everything in life, great read.
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
MightyAtom
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Korea (South)1897 Posts
October 19 2010 15:51 GMT
#4
g0G0RandOm That's awesome, I love Judo, it's my first love (rugby union my true love keke), but I'm thinking of getting into BJJ so i just roll around on my back keke (no offense to BJJ guys, I'm seriously thinking of trying it).

HeavOnEarth: ^^
Administrator-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
g0G0RandOm
Profile Joined December 2004
Switzerland80 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-19 15:55:28
October 19 2010 15:54 GMT
#5
oh and i forgot something 1 of the fundamental in judo is that ( the more you weight the easier you are to throw , or something like that ) the bigger your opponent the better it is thanks to the gravitiy you fall harder if you are big since you use your opponent force against him ))))
Cry me a river
Clamev
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Germany498 Posts
October 19 2010 15:56 GMT
#6
great read 5/5
6Pool or die trying
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
October 19 2010 16:03 GMT
#7
Another nice read, Keep it up hyung!
Etherone
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1898 Posts
October 19 2010 16:28 GMT
#8
Out of curiosity may i ask how old you are?
MightyAtom
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Korea (South)1897 Posts
October 19 2010 16:43 GMT
#9
On October 20 2010 01:28 Etherone wrote:
Out of curiosity may i ask how old you are?


35
Masters business
Former korean gov't senior industry analyst and technology transfer / joint venture agency negotiator
Former senior management consultant PwC
Former regional director of Pokerstars in Asia
Korea University Professional Rugby team

currently working on independent projects...

-married
-1 baby son
-another on its way
-live in Seoul

no worries, the question comes up a lot, just providing a bit more background.
Administrator-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
Etherone
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1898 Posts
October 19 2010 16:59 GMT
#10
It just seemed like an extremely well thought out, and honest post. Since it isn't too common that posts of this quality come along, I was curious.

Even though my first reaction to all that information was that it wasn't really necessary. I can't help but feel that it did add a lot of weight and context to what you have written here, and in previous posts.

Sincere thank you.
5/5
1sd2sd3sd
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
660 Posts
October 19 2010 17:02 GMT
#11
I don't post often although it's not because I'm bad at posting, actually, I could be a better poster yet I don't have enough time to get better at it due to numerous external forces, those of which I deem unfair and thus obsess over. Instead of stopping to realize that the time I spend encouraging myself to be adversely affected could be spent proactively, I remain stubborn, enabling defense mechanisms to control my thoughts and actions. 5/5
NIIINO
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Slovakia1320 Posts
October 19 2010 17:07 GMT
#12
God you are old ! Congratulations to your another hungry neck on the way : ) you look like a cool guy now im in half of your write and going to eat read rest later, cant wait ! it looks great, GJ
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
October 19 2010 18:17 GMT
#13
You sound like an awesome dude.

Having more than 110kg, isn't it hard to do stuff like hand stand?

Im not really into fighting sports, closest i can get is Tekken :D
I am not good with quotes
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
October 19 2010 18:32 GMT
#14
This is all pretty insightful. Often my mind seeks to justify my failures, when the reality is without dedication and focus I can never entirely weed out the flaws in anything I do.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
October 19 2010 19:39 GMT
#15
Hehe interesting. You have a very standard Eastern view on success and failure, essentially that you become more motivated after losses, and quit after successes. This is opposed to Westerners who tend to quit after failures and continue after successes.

Learned this in social + cultural psych.
MightyAtom
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Korea (South)1897 Posts
October 20 2010 02:18 GMT
#16
Etherone: Sincerely you're welcome, it's my pleasure to share as it also gives me time to reflect and this is always a difficult medium to post in, mainly because we generally just look at what is in the post and don't have that background on the poster, but you know, you post because you care, so, it always feels good when you feel you've contributed, especially at TL. thanks ^^

1sd2sd3sd: Now that is an uber honest reply, it's always tough to see things as a process to just 'be better'; to not feel the need to exert your dominance in every instance whether it is for the sake of your confidence, the image you portray or dealing with the set-backs of your environment. And you've touched on a really good point in that, you do that, you trigger a 'reaction' and it becomes a habit (being stubborn) and then you're just reactive all the time instead of just taking a step forward and letting the environment completely dictate everything you do. In those cases, I try not to think about anything and just say, it is what is it is and now its time for to just get the job done. GL, that was such an honest reply, you're definitely on track...

Clamev, Ack1027, NIIINO, s.a.y: ^^, thanks for the comments, and yeah, I feel old with you guys around, I was playing diablo 2 for fun recently and this level 81 barb was helping my lvl 14 pali and he cleared me to diablo and asks me my age and I say '35' and he is like 'wow...' and I ask him his age and he says '12' and damn, he was playing since he was 11, but he was uber nice and skillful. keke and at over 110kg, I tell you, it freaking hard just to sit up from the couch, let alone do a hand stand, I think after I broke 108kg, i couldn't do more than 3 resting full chin ups...my wife has removed all sweet things and unhealthy things from the house so I sneak out with my son at night and go to burger king once a week. keke.

Misanthrope: excellent summary, couldn't have written it better.

Zapdos_Smithh: That is a very interesting fact which I haven't heard for a while, and it is true to some extent, the problem with the application: while the eastern view has more participants, they never achieve the absolute greatness of their western counterparts, who have a high rate of failure, but when they shine, they shine pretty damn bright... In some sense, the US may have one of the shittiest high school standard scores in the world, they still have the absolute best universities in the world, while Korea has the absolute highest high school standardized test scores in the world, our universities are generally ranked outside of the top 100 in the world (with the exception of a few departments).

I'd have to say though, when you get to an elite level of competition, it all pretty much levels out, because of 'competition'; ultimately those views of development are self development, they still don't take into consideration the aspect of competitors; so in both cases, the Eastern side sets themselves up for failure (to be limited by their successes) by assuming that they are in a stable environment when there are no obvious failings/shortcomings, while the Western side set themselves up by focusing on short term wins, which can lead to some really shockingly bad situations for the firm in the long term. So again, what I've seen is that at a global elite level of competition, we're all the same, what motivates us to achieve more or to let go of our immature ego and develop our sense of 'legacy' is simply our level of ambition.
After all, nowadays, your competition is simply all; no matter if you're on Europe, Korea, SEA, NA servers, eventually you're all gonna meet at WCG or GSL or something like that ^^ keke, love the analogies that only make sense here at TL. Cheers.

Administrator-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
Divinek
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada4045 Posts
October 20 2010 02:19 GMT
#17
reading stuff like this is awesome

it's like stuff ive always known in my heart ( and everyone should know)

but it's nice to see someone articulate it so well
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Oh goodness me, FOX tv where do you get your sight? Can't you keep track, the puck is black. That's why the ice is white.
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
November 17 2010 22:33 GMT
#18
"Smart People are Bad Competitors"
smart and humble can coexist.
Ego is the only thing that makes bad competitors.
humility only comes from experiences and knowledge.

GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
MightyAtom
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Korea (South)1897 Posts
November 18 2010 06:01 GMT
#19
On November 18 2010 07:33 rei wrote:
"Smart People are Bad Competitors"
smart and humble can coexist.
Ego is the only thing that makes bad competitors.
humility only comes from experiences and knowledge.


Again, in the context of the post, why smart people are bad competitors, is in the learning process and how to address that. I think if you don't have enough ego, you wouldn't compete and while humility is good for learning, its not always good in competition. Your context and the general thinking is more philosophical than practical in application, not quite appropriate for this type of business context, please don't get this mixed up, I'm not writing a self-help blog, all those losers can continue being losers for the rest of their lives, I'm writing for those who want to be the best of the best and for the glory of our geek nation of TL.net.

Cheers
Administrator-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
TimmyMac
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada499 Posts
November 18 2010 06:36 GMT
#20
Ya, this is great advice. I play water polo and it's a great/humbling experience to play teams completely out of your league and getting owned. I've learned more in a weekend playing national level guys than a semester of training with the university.
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