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I'm sure that you guys have heard of cases where someone learns to do something the wrong way, and then has to 1) unlearn the wrong way 2)learn it the right way. As you can guess, it's usually harder to learn something correctly after one has learned it the wrong way already.
(Btw, I'm not really talking about Starcraft. It's pretty easy to learn to build a pylon at 9 even after you've been doing it at 7 for a long long time.)
My personal problem is typing. I've been typing incorrectly for as long as I can remember. It was only within the last few years, however, that I figured out that the way I was typing was actually incorrect. While I find my typing speed adequate for the normal high school workload, the way I type leads to an increased number of mistakes. In a very generalized summary, I only use the index and middle fingers of my right hand to type keys not on the resting row. Again, this is just a generalization, or whatever you call it. Some keys I press correctly, and others I press even more incorrectly.
According to this test, my speed is 83 wpm.
This brings me to my questions:
1. What is the best way to unlearn a wrong skill, and relearn a right skill in the right way?
2. Have you had a similar experience? How, if you did, did you fix it?
You're probably just going to tell me to practice typing properly, and I will. However, I was looking to see if there are any addition tips, especially when it comes to (re)learning to type.
P.S. I hate you Mavis Beacon. Load of good you did me in elementary school. (jk, ily)
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play nexus word wars!
ok but seriously habits are hard to break and the only way i see it is to constantly remind yourself and be aware of when you accidentally do it again
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I've unlearned quite a few bad habits, some being technical (having to relearn how to hold my violin bow, etc.), some being personal (not slouching, standing up straight, etc.)
Really there's no real "trick" to it, you just have to make a conscious effort to stop yourself every time you feel yourself doing something wrong and work to fix it. I think the biggest problem is that your brain will naturally want to think "screw it, I'm comfortable with that old thing and it worked well enough, why change it?" Try your best not to fall back into your old habits at all - the moment you consciously let something happen, the more it gets reinforced in your mind.
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Before anyone suggests it, I am NOT playing The Typing of the Dead LOL. Beat that when I was 10, I think.
I can't believe this is my 1000th post. :D
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Go to your trainer, pay 50g, and respec.
In all seriousness...I feel your pain. Not sure how to go about it exactly 
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assess your mistakes, then minimalize them.
i actually type pretty badly now, i press delete button like 30 times a minute. rofl
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The solution to your problem would be to just slow down, think it through and type the correct way until it becomes muscle memory. Or you could try shock therapy treatment 
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On October 11 2010 18:28 IronMonocle wrote:The solution to your problem would be to just slow down, think it through and type the correct way until it becomes muscle memory. Or you could try shock therapy treatment
Isn't that for depression? O_O
But yeah, it'll definitely be hard to override (exactly) 10 years of muscle memory.
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Damned, what did u guys get for the test? im like 54...
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On October 11 2010 18:33 Ixas wrote:
Damned, what did u guys get for the test? im like 54...
I don't think I realized my problem until a facebook application showed that a lot of my friends had wpm around 130.
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I had a baseball coach in high-school who said this:
It takes 200 correct actions to fix a single incorrect one. I think that may be a little bit overkill, but it gets the point across.
Whenever players would develop holes in their swings, or throwing motion, it would be 200 swings, throws, or what-have-you a day until it was fixed.
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On October 11 2010 18:46 MrBitter wrote:
I had a baseball coach in high-school who said this:
It takes 200 correct actions to fix a single incorrect one. I think that may be a little bit overkill, but it gets the point across.
Whenever players would develop holes in their swings, or throwing motion, it would be 200 swings, throws, or what-have-you a day until it was fixed.
That's... 200x10 = 2000 years to correct my mistake. T_T
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On October 11 2010 18:47 Karliath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 18:46 MrBitter wrote:
I had a baseball coach in high-school who said this:
It takes 200 correct actions to fix a single incorrect one. I think that may be a little bit overkill, but it gets the point across.
Whenever players would develop holes in their swings, or throwing motion, it would be 200 swings, throws, or what-have-you a day until it was fixed. That's... 200x10 = 2000 years to correct my mistake. T_T
Well... I wouldn't look at it that way.
In the context of typing, think of it like this:
You want to force yourself to use your pinky finger to hit the " : " key. Make yourself hit that key with your pinky 200 times a day until it feels natural.
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you cant really "unlearn" a skill, but you can develop a new habit.
that being said, what's wrong with it now? if it works, it works, right?
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On October 11 2010 19:19 29 fps wrote:
you cant really "unlearn" a skill, but you can develop a new habit.
that being said, what's wrong with it now? if it works, it works, right?
It doesn't work.
There is a much higher chance of me pressing the wrong keys because my hand is flying around. For example, is it easier to hit "j" then " ' " with the index and pinky finger, respectively, or is it easier to hit the buttons with only the index finger? Obviously, I don't type this way cause I'm not THAT bad, but you get the picture.
Since I'm tying with 2 less fingers, it pretty much has to be slower too.
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United States24767 Posts
Research shows that you can't unlearn something that you've established in your brain. You just 'pave over' it. A music teacher was explaining to me that he figured out the wrong way to use his fingers on the piano when he was a kid and had to learn all over again how to position his hands. He can play correctly now but when he gets drunk enough he reverts to the old style which is way inferior :p
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I'd say just force yourself to do it the right way, even though the wrong way seems easier and more natural. It doesn't reap rewards right away, but I don't think you will be able to unlearn something by actually doing something. Just make sure you don't do the things you want to unlearn, because then you'll never unlearn them. I think this applies to addictions and compulsive behaviours as well. You won't be able to stop smoking unless you actually force yourself not to. It all comes down to self-discipline.
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You could try this.
http://www.goodtyping.com/default.htm
I type wrong too. I only use three finger to type: Ring, middle, index. I find I type slow and I make a lot of mistake.
I tried using one of those classes to learn how to type properly, but I find my little finger gets exhausted fast
I haven't put much effort, can anyone confirm that 4 fingers typing style is superior to three fingers?
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On October 11 2010 19:29 micronesia wrote:
Research shows that you can't unlearn something that you've established in your brain. You just 'pave over' it. A music teacher was explaining to me that he figured out the wrong way to use his fingers on the piano when he was a kid and had to learn all over again how to position his hands. He can play correctly now but when he gets drunk enough he reverts to the old style which is way inferior :p
That's pretty fucked up if now he can't drink booze.
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Just do it the right way and don't get frustrated when you type 1/4th as fast as you do now and you should do fine. Most people don't type the proper way because they see typing the proper way is slower than how they type now and never learn.
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On October 11 2010 21:33 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 19:29 micronesia wrote:
Research shows that you can't unlearn something that you've established in your brain. You just 'pave over' it. A music teacher was explaining to me that he figured out the wrong way to use his fingers on the piano when he was a kid and had to learn all over again how to position his hands. He can play correctly now but when he gets drunk enough he reverts to the old style which is way inferior :p That's pretty fucked up if now he can't drink booze.
No. He can still drink, but it's when he is drunk that he plays all wrong, not that when he gets drunk he forgets the proper way to do it and has to relearn it again.
When he's sober, everything's back to normal.
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On October 11 2010 21:41 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 21:33 Boonbag wrote:On October 11 2010 19:29 micronesia wrote:
Research shows that you can't unlearn something that you've established in your brain. You just 'pave over' it. A music teacher was explaining to me that he figured out the wrong way to use his fingers on the piano when he was a kid and had to learn all over again how to position his hands. He can play correctly now but when he gets drunk enough he reverts to the old style which is way inferior :p That's pretty fucked up if now he can't drink booze. When he's sober, everything's back to normal.
Ah. Good point.
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On October 11 2010 19:29 micronesia wrote:
Research shows that you can't unlearn something that you've established in your brain. You just 'pave over' it. A music teacher was explaining to me that he figured out the wrong way to use his fingers on the piano when he was a kid and had to learn all over again how to position his hands. He can play correctly now but when he gets drunk enough he reverts to the old style which is way inferior :p
ha, interesting story!
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Yup I've heard and struggled with unlearning bad habits when I was playing music. I'm not sure about all the '200 repetitions' stuff but all I remember is that it takes a lot of work and practice to unlearn something.
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I think that the best way is just repetition. That's how I stopped hotkeying gates as 1-4 and started using 4-7.
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OMG I HATE YOU, j/k .
I just realized that I have pretty much the same typing flaw though...
I'm just going to go with playing http://play.typeracer.com/
because that game doesn't let you skip errors(you always have to delete until you get it right)
I'd just try and make a conscious effort to stop yourself when you're about to hit the wrong key. NVM it's impossible...
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That typing test is annoying. I did the Astronaut sample test and got like 20 wpm because it there was so much formatting to it(punctuation and such). I switched to something that didn't have that much and it instantly boosted to 70 wpm
I have to say 83 wpm is fine, there is no real reason to learn a new method since what you know works very well.
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it's not really about typing correctly. i don't type correctly. yet i can still manage quite high wpm and very low error rate. just type more, that's all there is to it.
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In my opinion, 83 wpm is more than enough. There's no way you would think an essay faster than that. I got the same as you (85) and I've been typing in Dvorak-fr for the last 6 months or so for the improved ergonomy (it really feels like a lot less effort to type in Dvorak) in the most efficient way possible, and it still takes me 10 hours to do my damn lab report.
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are you by chance left handed? i'm left handed too, and i type the exact same way.
i just decided to force myself into typing faster, lol. i was at about 80 or so in high school until i decided to pump the shit out of training mode until i got to around 100 or so
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How is 83 bad for not using the "touch method"?
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I don't type right and I still get 130 wpm on things like typeracer.
I mainly use my index and middle fingers
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If it works for you, who cares
I know that people have successfully beaten their children out of being lefties, saving them a life of shame (I plan on doing the same if god punishes me with a lefty) Perhaps every time you don't use the correct fingers, you smash your keyboard over your hand?
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It takes 2000 repetitions to learn a motion (from a muscle memory perspective) You simply have to practice the correct action enough to make it a natural motion (muscle memorized). With a solid foundation in key layout which you obviously have it should be relatively easy.
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On October 12 2010 00:24 Thratur wrote:
In my opinion, 83 wpm is more than enough. There's no way you would think an essay faster than that. I got the same as you (85) and I've been typing in Dvorak-fr for the last 6 months or so for the improved ergonomy (it really feels like a lot less effort to type in Dvorak) in the most efficient way possible, and it still takes me 10 hours to do my damn lab report.
83 wpm is fine. The problem is, at 83 wpm there are a lot of errors. It takes a lot more effort to type correctly with my method than does the normal method.
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I was like you. I never learned to type. What I did, I had an old typing program cd which I used during summer break and started from scratch relearning typing. When I wasn't typing I tried my hardest to not type unless I had too and when I did try to consciously type the right way. There should be one of these on the internet if you search around. I gave up before learning numbers though so I type correctly but have difficulty typing correctly with numbers. And occasionally some of my old habits occur when I start typing fast.
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You just make a point of doing it a lot. There's no secret.
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That's funny, I actually do the same thing. I'm convinced it's from years of playing starcraft, where I would get used to typing with all fingers on my left hand (due to hotkeys, lol) but only my pointer finger and thumb on my right hand. I use my pinky for return and shift, but that's about it. I could probably work on learning the correct way to type, but what I do works pretty well, so I will probably just stick with it.
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Ok I've done this lots of times. I relearned how to type when I got a job as a transcriber (after doing something similar to what you were doing), I changed my entire guitar picking technique after 10 years of playing the wrong way, I've even changed my Starcraft keyboard hand from 'a-s-d-f' to 'ctrl-a-s-d' positioning halfway through the Sc2 beta and had to totally re adjust to my hand being one key to the left.
As others have said, there's no 'trick' to stuff like this, you basically have to start really slow and force yourself to do things the right way. If you find yourself typing a letter with the wrong finger then slow down and concentrate on doing it the right way. It will be painfully slow for the first hour or so but after a couple of days you will surpassing your old speed. The brain is surprisingly good at readjusting and with ALL the examples I gave, I was up to my old speed within about 5-6 hours of time spent at said activity.
People are really reluctant to change stuff like this because of how retarded it feels at first, but you'd be surprised how natural it feels after a few hours of practice.
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United States24767 Posts
I have this problem with my hotkeys a lot. I get used to using a certain system (3aa4dd5s6dd) etc. and can't change how I do it without a HUGE blow to performance :p
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lol ya, 100 wpm with only using 4 fingers, and no thumbs even for space bar (both middle and pointer), terrible, i wish i learned correctly. D:
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On October 11 2010 19:29 micronesia wrote:
Research shows that you can't unlearn something that you've established in your brain. You just 'pave over' it. A music teacher was explaining to me that he figured out the wrong way to use his fingers on the piano when he was a kid and had to learn all over again how to position his hands. He can play correctly now but when he gets drunk enough he reverts to the old style which is way inferior :p
I think it must depend on the person. I'm a music teacher myself and I completely relearned my guitar picking technique in my 20s but have never once gone back to the old way, even when drunk. In fact if I try the old way it just feels awkward and really unnatural. My typing feels the same, I can't physically type the way I used to, I'd have to totally retrain how to do it again.
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United States24767 Posts
On October 12 2010 06:33 Wargizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 19:29 micronesia wrote:
Research shows that you can't unlearn something that you've established in your brain. You just 'pave over' it. A music teacher was explaining to me that he figured out the wrong way to use his fingers on the piano when he was a kid and had to learn all over again how to position his hands. He can play correctly now but when he gets drunk enough he reverts to the old style which is way inferior :p I think it must depend on the person. I'm a music teacher myself and I completely relearned my guitar picking technique in my 20s but have never once gone back to the old way, even when drunk. In fact if I try the old way it just feels awkward and really unnatural. My typing feels the same, I can't physically type the way I used to, I'd have to totally retrain how to do it again.
Yeah all of our brains definitely work differently. Everyone learns (and unlearns I suppose) differently.
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You just have to force yourself to do it. I too type in an irregular way, and I still do.
What I did was teach my left hand to type from home row (to boost my Hotkey accuracy), and now I can type from homerow with all four fingers being used.
Now for my right hand... its like random with 4 fingers lol. I'll get to it some day.
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physical trauma should do the trick
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