Here are some arguments as to why Flash is not Bonjwa and why they are wrong:
The Maps:
True, the maps are good for terran right now. But if you say that Flash can't be bonjwa because of the maps, you have to take away that title from oov and Nada as well. During oov and Nada's time, an OSL round of 16 frequently had 9 or 10 terrans and almost no protosses. In contrast, for 3 out of Flash's 4 titles this year, he was the only terran in the semi-finals. People think that a Bonjwa has to revitalize their race because of what Boxer and Savior did but they forget there are 2 other bonjwas.
Jaedong:
If 3 Bo5 victories in a row didn't convince you that Flash was a better player I don't know what to say. The rivalry is one-sided right now. If you feel like you have to 4-pool twice in a Bo5 to have a chance you are not the better player, not even close.
Amount of time:
This was my argument as to why Flash was not bonjwa after Hana Daetoo, and I believe it was valid. However, 4 titles in a year matches or beats every bonjwa's accomplishments, and Flash has 2 silvers and a stellar win rate to go along with it.
Why isn't Jaedong a Bonjwa then?
He won 3 titles in the course of a year but he didn't fit the dominance requirement. After the NATE MSL lots of people still thought Flash was the better player. Right now there is no doubt that Flash is the better player.
While I think 3 titles in a year + being the undisputed best player is a good qualifier for bonjwa, I think the real qualifier is that no matter what criteria you use for bonjwa, a bonjwa will meet it. Flash does.
He either is, or either is not. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that Flash is absolutely dominating, has an intense dominating force at this point. Anyone who tries to argue with using any sort of factoid, well, doesnt know what bonjwa means. Flash is bonjwa, if you disagree, you're probably defining it wrong ^^
There isn't a checklist for being a bonjwa or not. I think it was Hot_Bid who said once that the whole debate is ridiculous, because the mere presence of a substantive debate means that there isn't a consensus. That's the criteria; there needs to be a consensus.
I think there is now, but the whole point of arguing titles and time is irrelevant.
Way to be arbitrary!~ Just like the whole discussion! Dominant players are clear cut, like Flash and Jaedong, Savior, Oov. There's nothing to prove by labeling bonjwas when results speak for themselves. Let the koreans play with their words, no?
On September 12 2010 03:23 Milkis wrote: You can't argue why X is bonjwa.
He either is, or either is not. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that Flash is absolutely dominating, has an intense dominating force at this point. Anyone who tries to argue with using any sort of factoid, well, doesnt know what bonjwa means. Flash is bonjwa, if you disagree, you're probably defining it wrong ^^
By your own logic... as it was explained to me, neither Flash or Jaedong can be bonjwa as long as the other exists. A bonjwa has to completely dominate everyone else on the scene to be a bonjwa. Flash and Jaedong are BOTH above everybody else, and while both of them are in that place, neither one is a bonjwa.
On September 12 2010 03:23 Milkis wrote: You can't argue why X is bonjwa.
He either is, or either is not. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that Flash is absolutely dominating, has an intense dominating force at this point. Anyone who tries to argue with using any sort of factoid, well, doesnt know what bonjwa means. Flash is bonjwa, if you disagree, you're probably defining it wrong ^^
By your own logic... as it was explained to me, neither Flash or Jaedong can be bonjwa as long as the other exists. A bonjwa has to completely dominate everyone else on the scene to be a bonjwa. Flash and Jaedong are BOTH above everybody else, and while both of them are in that place, neither one is a bonjwa.
If anyone is a bonjwa it's flash, obviously things are different for different times, but this is the hardest time to be a bonjwa in and he's showing every game that he's by far the best and it's hard to say otherwise. Though throwing bonjwa around is annoying.
On September 12 2010 03:23 Milkis wrote: You can't argue why X is bonjwa.
He either is, or either is not. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that Flash is absolutely dominating, has an intense dominating force at this point. Anyone who tries to argue with using any sort of factoid, well, doesnt know what bonjwa means. Flash is bonjwa, if you disagree, you're probably defining it wrong ^^
By your own logic... as it was explained to me, neither Flash or Jaedong can be bonjwa as long as the other exists. A bonjwa has to completely dominate everyone else on the scene to be a bonjwa. Flash and Jaedong are BOTH above everybody else, and while both of them are in that place, neither one is a bonjwa.
"There can be only one," in other words.
He has beaten him in three straight finals now. -__-
On September 12 2010 03:23 Milkis wrote: You can't argue why X is bonjwa.
He either is, or either is not. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that Flash is absolutely dominating, has an intense dominating force at this point. Anyone who tries to argue with using any sort of factoid, well, doesnt know what bonjwa means. Flash is bonjwa, if you disagree, you're probably defining it wrong ^^
By your own logic... as it was explained to me, neither Flash or Jaedong can be bonjwa as long as the other exists. A bonjwa has to completely dominate everyone else on the scene to be a bonjwa. Flash and Jaedong are BOTH above everybody else, and while both of them are in that place, neither one is a bonjwa.
"There can be only one," in other words.
Flash beat Jaedong in 3 Bo5s in a row. I would place Flash far above Jaedong right now in terms of dominance.
On September 12 2010 03:17 jalstar wrote: Jaedong:
If 3 Bo5 victories in a row didn't convince you that Flash was a better player I don't know what to say. The rivalry is one-sided right now. If you feel like you have to 4-pool twice in a Bo5 to have a chance you are not the better player, not even close.
I have to disagree with your comment about him 4pooling to stand a chance. Clearly in the recent Bigfile MSL in game 3 JD basically took him head on and just had amazing defense with fantastic defiler control. As much as I'm a fan of JD I will agree with you and say that Flash right now is the better player.
You're pushing an open door. Ofc Flash is bonjwa, everything else would be ridicules. Obove all else, it's up to the Korean community to decide. (Which they did)
On September 12 2010 03:33 Sentenal wrote: Flash might be Bonjwa, but Bisu is still more sexy than he is.
Yeah... I think he is. I respect him more and more when I see all other protoss struggling. Also, atleast for me 4th terran bonjwa < the best zerg ever.
On September 12 2010 03:17 jalstar wrote: Jaedong:
If 3 Bo5 victories in a row didn't convince you that Flash was a better player I don't know what to say. The rivalry is one-sided right now. If you feel like you have to 4-pool twice in a Bo5 to have a chance you are not the better player, not even close.
I have to disagree with your comment about him 4pooling to stand a chance. Clearly in the recent Bigfile MSL in game 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okAXF6cGjq4&feature=related JD basically took him head on and just had amazing defense with fantastic defiler control. As much as I'm a fan of JD I will agree with you and say that Flash right now is the better player.
I saw that game. I also saw some great wins that Hwasin, Midas, and Iris had over Savior. But they all lost the Bo5 in the end.
EPT
Dominant players are clear cut, like Flash and Jaedong, Savior, Oov. There's nothing to prove by labeling bonjwas when results speak for themselves. Let the koreans play with their words, no?
