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Korean Air OSL season2 grand final spoilers below! You've been warned~
I'm a Jaedong fan. I try to tell people that I respect Flash's ability to win, but it never works. I get herded into the corral with the other Jaedong fans.
Flash has an insane ability to win... which forces a grudging respect if you're not his fan. You have to respect a guy's ability to win. Sure, his play may seem boring, but it wins. He's doing his job well.
I can't explain why I like Jaedong better than Flash. There's something about the *explosive* nature of JD's play that I don't see in other gamers. Maybe I'm blind. Maybe I'm just a fan.
Because I've seen Flash do it too, when he finds timing windows I never thought were there and destroys people the way Jaedong destroys people. Maybe it doesn't have the same apparent spark and fireworks because Flash doesn't play Zerg. Flash's army doesn't rush, it oozes. But that unrelenting march of the unstimmed marines comes at too perfect a time, it can't be stopped. And then it's too late, they're flooding from his base. You're done. Cooked.
So apparently, Smix, a Flash fan, is going around TL telling everyone "the Koreans are calling Flash a bonjwa! that makes it official" - but I don't buy it. The Koreans don't speak for me. An individual Korean or small groups of Koreans don't speak for all Korean netizens, all Korean fans of e-sports, or all fans of e-sports. I'm with riptide. Flash isn't a bonjwa and he'll never be a bonjwa. There are only 4 bonjwas and there will never be anymore. To say otherwise is to upset the natural order!
We've been over this - Flash and Jaedong are better than bonjwas. They're playing at a level none of their predecessors ever achieved and will never hope to achieve. Those old players are all washed up. That's not their fault - that's the ravages of time. But as much as we want to say they were the best in their own time, their own context, the game has changed, and the younger generation took over from them. They're playing the best starcraft not just of their lives, but that any of us have ever seen.
I learned something this OSL. Flash won, and everyone wants to call him a bonjwa except for me - as for me, I've finally identified something in Flash's play that I respect, not-grudgingly.
It's mindgames. Flash excels at mindgames. Now that I respect. Mindgames are how games are won in high-level competition in all sports and e-sports, hell, in conflicts across many aspects of life. When Daniel Lee mentioned that he had players on Estro read Art of War, I finally decided to sit down and read it - it's quite short and chock full of wisdom, I recommend you check out a translation of it. It changed the way that I think about strategy and conflict. When you can't possibly macro, manage, or control your units any better, the only way you can get ahead is through mental trickery. That's how the best players win. That's how an 80% winrate in the volatile ZvZ matchup is possible.
Apparently, Flash and Jaedong practice together on battlenet. Big surprise, right? The best players need the other best players to play against them to stay sharp. But these two- they split games. They go 50-50. Those are the games we wish we could see, like the 50-minute WCG game on Grand Line SE that they said was basically like their practice games.
I follow the Lee-ssang rok waiting for that Ultimate Finish. I want a series 5 games out of 5, 50-minute slugfests every one, low econ cheese doing damage but the defender not dying, resolving into stable games that last until the final mineral is mined out. I wouldn't care who won at that point... Scara told me on TL vent this morning that he might die from jizzing too hard if that happened. I fear it probably never will.
NATE, the power outage MSL, that would have been it. That would have been the best chance we had to have the ultimate showdown. It was a great series until it ground to a halt. We as fans were robbed.
Then, Flash went on to punish Jaedong for his "free" MSL win.* He pulled ahead of Jaedong in mindgames for hana-daetoo. Incredibly so. He was so far up inside Jaedong's head that Jaedong fell apart by set 3, his chance to stage a comeback. Then he beat Jaedong in mindgames again in Bigfile, even though that was a closer series.
Jaedong struck back this time in KoreanAir OSL season2 and tried to get in Flash's head. It worked out a little bit, but some mistakes cost him the series. If only he hadn't tried to block his ramp, if only he hadn't let his lings get surrounded on Grand Line... I wanted a game 5.
Thus I've concluded that in this rivalry, Flash is at least on par with Jaedong's mindgames... but he's ahead on TV. What's showing up is that he wins them when it counts, on television, under great pressure. I respect that. I don't think he's a bonjwa, but I've finally been convinced that I have to give credit where it's due. Not-grudgingly. Flash for golden mouse and vacation! Jaedong, get some sleep! Lee-ssang rok forever! Show me more of your mindgames, you Lees.
* In interviews, Flash said he lost game 4 of NATE straight-up and so he wasn't upset about it - what he was upset about was game 3, which he felt he was going to win. If he had won game 3 and then lost game 4 straight up, the series wouldn't have ended with Jaedong winning the whole thing, there would have been a game 5 and an actually-epic series.
p.s. If I got your attention to read this far... I guess, I want to beg you, gentle reader, not to let Brood War die this death we all fear. Keep the dream alive~
  
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one star
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
nice writeup .
i rooted for both players before...and when flash finally got out of his child labour terran phase i really wanted him to win. now that he keeps owning jaedong i want jaedong to win again haha but sadly denied AGAIN today..
T_T
flash makes terran look so godamn strong its not even funny anymore haha.
i hope theres more leessang finals~
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Nice writeup.
Watching JvF never gets boring. The two best players in the history of starcraft playing arguably the most exciting MU to watch? yesssssssssssss
And I think a lot of people are not giving much credit to JD, any other zerg would have died a much more horrible death to flash and no other terran could've stood up to JD and won. (exaggerated slightly, but you get the idea). Although, Flash's dominance is getting kinda ridiculous at this point.
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So what does it exactly mean by Koreans are calling Flash "Bonjwa"?
Like random people all over the internet?
Reputable casters?
Other players?
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Well... Flash has had a great 2010. But Jaedong had an amazing 2009 as well... that was called "Swarm Season," when even  type-b could get to the semi-finals of the OSL.
This isn't Swarm Season, though, this is 2010. The maps favor Terran. I don't care if the progamers say it doesn't matter... lol. They are just being polite, not to mention that blaming the maps sets you up in a mental trap that's bad for winning, and they know better than to sabotage themselves. Jaedong got his Golden Mouse last year and Flash got his this year.
Flash has ONLY just now tied Jaedong for 1st place wins. It's anybody's guess who will pull ahead in their rivalry next! They are the two best players on Earth, bar none. Who will get #6 to tie Nada first? Will there even be leagues to play in!? We don't know...
@JSH, it means there was an article on dailyesports website where I guess? they tried to be edgy and get a feel for what netizens were saying, and declared "officially" koreans were saying Flash was bonjwa in message board discussions, which is anything but official 
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On September 12 2010 02:26 JSH wrote:
So what does it exactly mean by Koreans are calling Flash "Bonjwa"?
Like random people all over the internet?
Reputable casters?
Other players?
It was acknowledged in his winner's interview, and I think it was on the front page of daily esports? I'm pretty sure there's at least a decent level of consensus among both korean netizens and esports writers and players alike.
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On September 12 2010 02:32 jgju wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 02:26 JSH wrote:
So what does it exactly mean by Koreans are calling Flash "Bonjwa"?
Like random people all over the internet?
Reputable casters?
Other players? It was acknowledged in his winner's interview, and I think it was on the front page of daily esports? I'm pretty sure there's at least a decent level of consensus among both korean netizens and esports writers and players alike.
If there's a consensus, that's interesting... don't know how you'd measure that, though. I guess everybody had very high expectations for the symbolic meaning of this OSL final, which is actually what I made this blog about o_O
riptide and I still think there can only be 4 bonjwas though~
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On September 12 2010 02:37 Delerium wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 02:32 jgju wrote:On September 12 2010 02:26 JSH wrote:
So what does it exactly mean by Koreans are calling Flash "Bonjwa"?
Like random people all over the internet?
Reputable casters?
Other players? It was acknowledged in his winner's interview, and I think it was on the front page of daily esports? I'm pretty sure there's at least a decent level of consensus among both korean netizens and esports writers and players alike. If there's a consensus, that's interesting... don't know how you'd measure that, though. I guess everybody had very high expectations for the symbolic meaning of this OSL final, which is actually what I made this blog about o_O riptide and I still think there can only be 4 bonjwas though~
To be fair, I am just postulating regarding the consensus, and it certainly isn't something you can measure. For me, the winner interview seems to be the most concrete proof, but I can definitely see why you would have doubts as to the validity of the title.
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agree agree , jaedong rocks :D
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very nice analysis. I was rooting for Jaedong this OSL... but he couldnt pull through..
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Of course it's impossible to really know what the full consensus of spectators are in regards "is Flash Bonjwa". I mean, they could do a poll or something but I doubt that will happen.
However, it seems pretty clear that the majority of TLers are now content to call him Bonjwa, and if even TL can reach some sort of consensus on it then I think it's safe to say that's the general consensus 
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honest question: why have there been so many terran bonjwas and only one (two counting JD) zerg bonjwa and no protoss bonjwas?
is it because more skilled players gravitate towards playing terran?
i only started following pro BW a lot this year, so i'm just curious about why there have been so many terran bonjwas in the past.
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the man won both starleagues and got a golden mouse, he has been to 6 finals and has 77% winning average at this level of play thats super insane! man you guys just dont know whats up.. you have a bona fide bonjwa in front of your eyes and you dont want to face it? the best player at this time in starcraftbw stop arguing about if terran is imba or not.. just face it flash won and thats it.
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Can't believe people are still whining about the game Flash would have lost anyway, even if there wasn't a power outage. I guess people forget that Flash's all-in got stopped and Jaedong was on way more bases and easily holding with Dswarm
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Smix
United States4549 Posts
You're right in that one individual / small group of individuals don't get to decide something like 'bonjwa' so easily - it's been a severely beaten topic over and over again and from your post, I can understand your perspective. I just wanted to clarify mine -
The reason why I've been saying that he is, is because the consensus in Korea seems to be overwhelmingly pro-bonjwa (and I mean every article I've read, every response I've read) and the article on daily esports flat out labeled him as the 5th bonjwa, detailing how there has been up to now befuddled debates because of the crazy taekbangleessang, then leessangrok rivalries after Savior but that today's results put an end to all that. I guess, like you said, people held this OSL final particularly symbolically since many thing bw is ending (T_T).
Anyway, to each their own - I respect your views, and beyond all else, it goes without saying that Jaedong and Flash are both amazing players. Let's hope bw doesn't die now~
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I don't think it matters if you and riptide don't think Flash is a bonjwa. From reading threads on tl it seems that most people who post, regardless of whether they're Flash or JD fans think he is. Defining consensus as every single watching BW fan agreeing someone is Bonjwa is never going to happen. If we needed that for past Bonjwas then koreasilver's post now nullifies Boxer from that honour.
For me personally, I feel like Flash is bonjwa, whatever that means. But it also feels like Jaedong played better in the past than he does now. If that's unfair, then that's just life I guess. It's always impossible to know how each great player would fare if they played other greats at the height of their power. Jaedong ripped apart other good players for a long time. Now Flash is. I'm a huge fan of both.
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I think you are putting way too much emphasis on mindgames. Flash has a ridiculous winrate because he's better than pretty much everyone, not because he mindgames all his opponents.
Sometimes in situations with very small sample size (like finals records) people need to attribute some deeper meaning to the results.
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Bonjwa, above bonjwa, almost bonjwa....who the fuck cares? This is such a trivial technicality, I'm sure we could put our efforts somewhere slightly more productive than debating such an ambiguous word.
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On September 12 2010 05:52 yoshi_yoshi wrote:
I think you are putting way too much emphasis on mindgames. Flash has a ridiculous winrate because he's better than pretty much everyone, not because he mindgames all his opponents.
Sometimes in situations with very small sample size (like finals records) people need to attribute some deeper meaning to the results.
I suggest reading Sun Tzu's Art of War if you feel this way... have you competed in chess or anything like that?
You're asserting that Flash is better than pretty much everyone, and I'm not disputing that - on the contrary, I completely agree with you. But what does "better" mean? He clicks on barracks better? He clicks patrol more accurately? That can't be it. I'm saying he's better BECAUSE his mental force is better. I don't mean bunker rushing every game is mind games* or anything silly like that, that's not how it works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors
"... unlike truly random selection methods, rock-paper-scissors can be played with a degree of skill, especially if the game extends over many sessions with the same player(s); it is often possible to recognize and exploit the non-random behavior of an opponent." (emphasis mine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors#Rock-paper-scissors_in_video_games
I know there is actually a negative stigma associated with rock paper scissors, that it's random. But it isn't (and neither is ZvZ). Otherwise there wouldn't be tournaments... ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors#Tournaments )
RPS is a crystallized form of mind games. Starcraft's mindgames are way better, obviously. That's what I mean when I talk about getting inside your opponent's head, when you've figured them out so fully that you predict their behavior and counter it, one step further than they were able to go with you. Flash has been doing it to people with great accuracy for like the entire past year (while he's macroing)... god that's amazing.
* edit: fuck it, HELL YES I'm saying that! Boxer predicted accurately that Yellow wouldn't guess that those bunker rushes were coming. Yellow shouldn't have been so stubborn, he should have adapted, he should have reacted... what a git. He probably thought "Boxer would never do that again because he knows now I'm expecting it, I'll get a lead with this opener..."
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Is there such a need to distinguish the fact that he's good at mindgames? For me, professional Broodwar is ALL mindgames. To say that someone is better at mindgames is just simply saying that they're the better player.
Maybe this wasn't true even 5 years ago, but at this point in time, the top 10 gamers are all so technically sound and mechanically close to perfect that the only thing that distinguishes the champions is their mental strength.
Mental strength manifests itself in a couple of different ways. For one thing, keeping your composure and playing as close to 100% as you can. You sit Flash or Fantasy or Effort or Jaedong at home in front of the computer, they'll all play godlike. But the mental strength to play as close to your full potential on a stage is an important aspect of mental strength.
The other aspect is how you can predict and counter your opponent's strategy (hidden inside his head) and this is what are called mind games. In this, Flash and Jaedong both excel but in this series, Flash just stomped him. Even in the hotly contested Game 4 that people are raving about, the issue was never in doubt because Flash was always mentally and strategically one step ahead.
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Whenever people bring up stuff about mindgames in a favored matchup, I get really annoyed at these people, for it isn't equal at all. TvZ, T has the advantage in mindgames. T can 14CC or bunker rush or forward rax the zerg out of the games, whereas the best Zerg can muster is 4 pool. Does Flash has better mindgames? Hard to say, since he almost cant lose in mindgames. Like people were saying, forward rax and he comes out ahead/equal. The best zerg can hope for is to not come out behind.
It's like your rock/paper/scissors analogy. Except in Zerg's case, he can't use paper.
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On September 12 2010 14:55 cascades wrote:
Whenever people bring up stuff about mindgames in a favored matchup, I get really annoyed at these people, for it isn't equal at all. TvZ, T has the advantage in mindgames. T can 14CC or bunker rush or forward rax the zerg out of the games, whereas the best Zerg can muster is 4 pool. Does Flash has better mindgames? Hard to say, since he almost cant lose in mindgames. Like people were saying, forward rax and he comes out ahead/equal. The best zerg can hope for is to not come out behind.
It's like your rock/paper/scissors analogy. Except in Zerg's case, he can't use paper.
Well zerg has 3 hatch before pool. I think it'd be more like if they both use paper, terran wins.
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I just don't think its fair for people to say Flash isn't bonjwa when he has utterly dominated everything, won everything, the few times he's lost is less big of a deal than the few times savior lost in his prime, than when oov lost in his, boxer in his. We look at the game from so far outside that we can't even realize that, although these two players are on a whole new level, there is one that has won head to head matchups more often, who has won the individual leagues and the proleague matches and proleague championship.
We will all look back and know that Flash was bonjwa from late 2009 and onward, but for now we are cutting ourselves at the ankles and not allowing us to enjoy this period of the, where the best player in the history of RTS has shone in his light, and has shown that no one person can dominate him.
He is the best, he may not have had the innovation of Boxer, but he has the dominance and macro of oov, the small intricate micros not quite on the level of NaDa's innovation in his prime, but we are all doing Flash and ourselves a disservice to not allow him the title.
He is bonjwa, he is the best.
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On September 12 2010 16:22 ZlaSHeR wrote:
I just don't think its fair for people to say Flash isn't bonjwa when he has utterly dominated everything, won everything, the few times he's lost is less big of a deal than the few times savior lost in his prime, than when oov lost in his, boxer in his. We look at the game from so far outside that we can't even realize that, although these two players are on a whole new level, there is one that has won head to head matchups more often, who has won the individual leagues and the proleague matches and proleague championship.
We will all look back and know that Flash was bonjwa from late 2009 and onward, but for now we are cutting ourselves at the ankles and not allowing us to enjoy this period of the, where the best player in the history of RTS has shone in his light, and has shown that no one person can dominate him.
He is the best, he may not have had the innovation of Boxer, but he has the dominance and macro of oov, the small intricate micros not quite on the level of NaDa's innovation in his prime, but we are all doing Flash and ourselves a disservice to not allow him the title.
He is bonjwa, he is the best.
er, what? lol... Jaedong and OZ have also won Proleague grand finals.
wait, what do you mean we look at the game from "so far outside" we can't realize x y and z about their records? of course we can realize those things about their records. their records are all we've been talking about for weeks.
anyways, you've gotten their records wrong if you don't realize Jaedong and his team have also hoisted the proleague championship trophy over their heads. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/leagues/143_2007_Shinhan_Proleague_Grand_Final
a bunch of people basically decided that if Flash won this last finals, then that made a fan-proffered title "official," maybe because of the sentimentality attached to this OSL. I don't know. I wrote this blog to show what I final noticed in Flash's play.
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This is a great write up.
But to me, Flash is Bonjwa. He deserves to be up there with the other greats for his unique contributions.
It's like, in martial arts. You cant attain the highest degrees of black belt just by practicing alot, you need to make some sort of contribution to the art and have the commendations of fellow masters.
Flash reinvented TvP and TvZ and has the high respect of every player out there and is frequently mentioned as the player other players want to be.
He is bonjwa.
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On September 13 2010 02:05 Delerium wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 16:22 ZlaSHeR wrote:
I just don't think its fair for people to say Flash isn't bonjwa when he has utterly dominated everything, won everything, the few times he's lost is less big of a deal than the few times savior lost in his prime, than when oov lost in his, boxer in his. We look at the game from so far outside that we can't even realize that, although these two players are on a whole new level, there is one that has won head to head matchups more often, who has won the individual leagues and the proleague matches and proleague championship.
We will all look back and know that Flash was bonjwa from late 2009 and onward, but for now we are cutting ourselves at the ankles and not allowing us to enjoy this period of the, where the best player in the history of RTS has shone in his light, and has shown that no one person can dominate him.
He is the best, he may not have had the innovation of Boxer, but he has the dominance and macro of oov, the small intricate micros not quite on the level of NaDa's innovation in his prime, but we are all doing Flash and ourselves a disservice to not allow him the title.
He is bonjwa, he is the best. er, what? lol... Jaedong and OZ have also won Proleague grand finals.
was it not obvious that I meant all in one season?
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EPT
