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Papua New Guinea152 Posts
In a recent interview Jaedong said that he would play in the upcoming OSL Finals "like his life depended on it".
Now I know that Jaedong already scares 99.99% of Korean progamers and BW netizens alike, but so far the only one on the face of the planet who does not shiver at the thought of challenging "The God of Destruction" is none other than Flash.
Let's recap. The whole rivalry started way before 2009, but most will remember the rivalry really heating up with the MSL PowerOutage Finals. Needless to say, it was a 3-1 win for JD, but one cannot dismiss the psychological effect the PowerOutage game had on Flash. As others have noted already, Flash is a player who thrives on perfectionism and order. As countless debates have raged for months, the game in question was a very controversial decision to award JD the win, and the only consequence was that both Flash and JD felt robbed by the finals.
After that was the OSL, where Flash swept JD 3-0. Many have commented that the series did not showcase JD's true skills and felt too impossibly one-sided. In addition, it seems possible that either Flash's greedy builds were not properly scouted and not well reacted to by JD, or JD did not anticipate Flash's strategy during the course of the series. I have a feeling that both the zerg cerebrate and the terran magistrate felt robbed again.
One must also remember when Flash knocked JD out of the previous OSL (where Flash beat Movie in the finals), with a close 1st game and cheesy bunker rush 2nd game. Flash had successfully, for the time being, figured out JD's strategy and was keeping his formidable zerg nemesis at bay.
With the recent MSL finals, we saw a close 3-2 series with Terran favored maps (however, JD dismissed the map imbalances) and only really 1 good game by JD (on Fighting Spirit). I do, however, think the 2nd JD win was a kind of sweet revenge: the ling rush was not anticipated by Flash, similar to how JD did not anticipate Flash's timing gol/mnm timing push in game 1. It was also revenge in the sense that JD had not taken such risks in the previous time they met on the grand stage, when Flash whitewashed him with 3 wins.
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If nothing else, it showed Flash that JD could also switch it up, putting the ball in Flash's court.
Also, JD won WCG Korea, which I understand might not be that big of a deal (Flash had said that since he was already qualified to fly to LA he wasn't going to invest that much in it), but it cemented the fact that JD was also fighting back against the Terran Magistrate.
This might sound silly, but JD might have a bit of advantage in the upcoming OSL because it's held in China. I'm not implying that JD has more Chinese fans than Flash (might be the case, not sure), but JD won the WCG in China last year, so that should give him some comfort at least.
As much as Flash says he is prepared, determined, and ready to take on JD, I feel that JD simply has more at stake here. THIS will be the most epic finals in a long time. I say this because JD has the composure and mental hardiness that has made him feared and revered as the best zerg player on the planet. Not to doubt Flash's mental game, but Flash is a player who operates methodically, imposes his own game on the opponent, and cannot stand anything that takes him out of his practice game environment (case in point: Pocari Sweat, rulers, random armbands, and taping his mouse to the table, etc.) Also I think that if JD were to lose this finals, he might not ever return to his previous glory...which would be unfortunate to say the least. JD knows what this means to his fans, to himself, and to the history of BW esports...and he will not disappoint.
So, to sum up...
while Jaedong scares the living you-know-what out of practically anyone on the face of the planet, I think a JD that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO LOSE and EVERYTHING TO GAIN should be a little unsettling for Flash and his fanboys 
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I'm not scared for Flash at all.
+ Show Spoiler +I'M PUMPED FOR JAEDONG, BOO YEAH!!!
I really hope that this series will be better, especially because the map pool will be better, and Jaedong has made clear his commitment--even though, as you said, the dongster dismissed the map imba
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im fucking scared for jaedong.
i hope to god jaedong takes this osl!!
GOOOOOOOO TYRANT!
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On September 06 2010 10:58 qzmpwxno wrote:while Jaedong scares the living you-know-what out of practically anyone on the face of the planet, I think a JD that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO LOSE and EVERYTHING TO GAIN should be a little unsettling for Flash and his fanboys
JD actually has a lot to lose in this match, but also a lot to gain. I would say Flash has less to lose (he's already won 1 title vs JD this season, so losing the other simply evens the rivalry) but still much to gain. For Flash, this will be the golden mouse he was denied last season, as well as being tied at 5 titles with JD, not to mention winning dual finals which is something he has yet to do (even though he's still made the last 3 dual finals).
For JD, this is about being the first player to have 4 OSL titles, and for proving to his fans that his rivalry with flash is here to stay. However, should he lose this, it will make 3 finals in a row he's lost to Flash, which hurts his rivalry with Flash. He really needs to win to keep it alive.
Honestly I'm not scared for flash, but I am for JD if he plays the same way he did against stork a few days ago.
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JD is Balboa
Flash is Clubber Lang
We know who wins at the end of Rocky III
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Jaedong gonna destroy flash this time around.
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Meh. A nice overview on Jaedong and Flash's recent history, but the gist of your point is "Jaedong really wants to win, and he will therefore pose a threat to Flash." That's not exactly news...
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On the part where you said it was very controversial regarding the poweroutage, no.... I don't believe so. I thought it was figured out pretty clearly that jaedong had the clear advantage. Correct me if im wrong though.
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On September 06 2010 11:22 HobbitGotGame wrote:
JD is Balboa
Flash is Clubber Lang
We know who wins at the end of Rocky III
You got that the wrong way round.
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United States11637 Posts
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If JD loses another final to Flash he might become mentally broken...I really hope the series live up the expectations, but hopefully JD wins.
On September 06 2010 1:30 PanN wrote:
On the part where you said it was very controversial regarding the poweroutage, no.... I don't believe so. I thought it was figured out pretty clearly that jaedong had the clear advantage. Correct me if im wrong though.
JD pretty much had that game won. The problem however was the mental stress imposed on Flash after an hour long heated debate between his couches, parents and the kespa referees... Chances are that this affected Flash in the next game, which he lost in a terrible manner...
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yessssssss, lets trash talk, cause im f**ing dying with no SC games to watch. im dying.
lets start the hype right now.
JD has said he learned a lot, so what do you guys think he could have learned?
i will state my opinion, if JD learn something it should be:
1. Go to Hive as soon as posible.
2. If you go muta, You MUST for the sake of your life do Muta damage otherwise you are dead.
3. Lurkers without a choke to defend wont work, flash micro is too good ( thats why he had an advantage at PR at last game, too much open space to defend his expos, uh oh, if i insulted your god "Flash", sue me )
4. Have enough units for a very possible middle-game All-in attacks, dont engage if he doesnt come, just expand.
Anyways, i really think JD should go 9 pool at least 2 games.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
COME ON JD !! >_<
STOP THE UNSTOPPABLE TERRAN WAR MACHINE FLASH!
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One must also remember when Flash knocked JD out of the previous OSL (where Flash beat Movie in the finals), with a close 1st game and cheesy bunker rush 2nd game. Flash had successfully, for the time being, figured out JD's strategy and was keeping his formidable zerg nemesis at bay.
I'm a bit hesitant to call that a close game. :/
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Hype hype hype!!! But just like the other 3 finals... How will this one turn out, we won't find out till saturday
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I'm scared for Flash too...I have a feeling that JD is gonna 9 pool at least twice, and Flash has a pretty poor history of dealing with early lings. I'm confident Flash can win 3 out of 5 if he makes it into the midgame every time, but that's a pretty big 'if'.
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More worried for Jaedong to be honest. Terran is the cheeser race, not Zerg. Remember the 14CC cheese Jaedong wasn't prepared for? That ended the series real quick.
Although Jaedong won a 2nd game with ling bust, he doesn't do it enough. Not enough times for Flash to 14CC all over again. Jaedong trusts too much in his macro, but you can't outmacro a terran.
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On September 06 2010 11:59 cascades wrote:
More worried for Jaedong to be honest. Terran is the cheeser race, not Zerg. Remember the 14CC cheese Jaedong wasn't prepared for? That ended the series real quick.
Although Jaedong won a 2nd game with ling bust, he doesn't do it enough. Not enough times for Flash to 14CC all over again. Jaedong trusts too much in his macro, but you can't outmacro a terran.
Especially when that terran is Flash...
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On September 06 2010 11:43 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +One must also remember when Flash knocked JD out of the previous OSL (where Flash beat Movie in the finals), with a close 1st game and cheesy bunker rush 2nd game. Flash had successfully, for the time being, figured out JD's strategy and was keeping his formidable zerg nemesis at bay. I'm a bit hesitant to call that a close game. :/
Seriously that would be a game I'd watch if i want to see a rape. Back to the issue here, i think flash has always had the upperhand in their rivalry except for the blimp in the power outage msl (3 hatch before pool > 1 rax expand; whole world predicted flash was gonna 1 rax expand lol) and the two hatch mutas in gom tv season 1 finals.
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On September 06 2010 12:02 Sigh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 11:59 cascades wrote:
More worried for Jaedong to be honest. Terran is the cheeser race, not Zerg. Remember the 14CC cheese Jaedong wasn't prepared for? That ended the series real quick.
Although Jaedong won a 2nd game with ling bust, he doesn't do it enough. Not enough times for Flash to 14CC all over again. Jaedong trusts too much in his macro, but you can't outmacro a terran. Especially when that terran is Flash...
Actually he woulda succeeded if flash didn't do some quite dirty timing pushes off of 14 cc TWICE. Flash management is quite over rated, what makes him win so many lategames is his decision making and defense IMO.
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Im a jaedong fan, and im concerned that his selfconfidence is alittle bit shot recently. He's lost the all the finals against flash in a quite layover fashion. Sure one game here and there. But the games that flash won were almost all decisive wins.
And i think that Flash's prediction ability makes him a really tough opponent in the mindgames, Ie youre not going to outsmart flash. He'll just respond accordingly and turtle and then flip you over.
So, what Jaedong needs to do to win, is exploit flash's tendency to go for greedy openings. Or force him to play standard (His goliath/MnM and vult/MnM push builds is the opposite). Because i believe Jaedongs biggest and most unprecedented skill is his comebacks. I mean in the Bo5 against light, that game where light had the biggest advantage in like forever, i was just thinking "oh noo dongy! you gonna loose!" But then he flipped out some lurker harass, delayed and got defilers. all while macroing and taking more bases. Then BAM! he had the advantage.
We have also seen him take out Fantasy when he was kneedeep in his mech builds, jaedong figured it out. and took him out. But can he do it to Flash? I dont know.
PS. i dont know how the hell you can be a FlaSh fan, i mean the guy just wins. There's never any thrill or uphill battles. FlaSh is the evil last boss, Jaedong is Rocky.
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Well, I'll just go there and call out the elephant in the room. Flash is Terran, Jaedong is Zerg. I'm not scared for flas
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Well I'm always afraid for Flash when he plays Jaedong, but like other people have said, after two losses to Flash in a row and then a very weak showing against Stork, I'm less concerned for Flash now.
Mostly I'm excited for what Flash will do on Dreamliner, especially if he spawns at the dreaded 6. Since Flash has already said that he thinks Dreamliner is hard, I think JD will do a 12 pool to counter a BBS, so I'm hoping for some clever pre-muta allin from Flash. The older 11/13 style? Rine/SCV allin? I want to see the cheddar terran in action.
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Post bacchus flash disagrees with you. Overworked and knockouts from lesser players season after season. Most painful memory would be his game vs GGplay. Literally "OH MY FUCKING GOD I CAN"T BELIEVE THAT". He would come out with a bang in the beginning of the season, winning streaks would be like 10+ only to phail in all 3 major leagues within hours apart. He only had himself to blame though, cocky attitude doesn't bode well in a competitive environment. Hes only dominating recently and fulfilling his potential everyone knew he had after bachus after changing his mindset.
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If flash wins this OSL I doubt that he will go to a big slump like what happen to Best and if he doesn't I shall curse him with a 1 year slump then.
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"Flash is a methodical player who cannot handle change blah blah blah" is a ridiculous statement. Players have had more than enough time to "figure him out" since he started dominating in 2009...
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I'm as big a JD fan as any, but I think JD is a significant underdog vs Flash right now. Though it would make for a much more entertaining series if JD won.
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I just want flash to win two SL's simultaneously Im not sure that Flash will beat jaedong but i think that flash is better
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On September 06 2010 12:17 Loser777 wrote:
"Flash is a methodical player who cannot handle change blah blah blah" is a ridiculous statement. Players have had more than enough time to "figure him out" since he started dominating in 2009...
Yea, I don't get this. More than anything this year he's shown how amazing he is at all styles of the game, and how much he can switch it up. Harass heavy TvT (vs Sea) to dropship oriented TvT (vs Fantasy) to mass wraith TvT (vs Leta), etc etc he can pull it off. He's ridiculous at turtling (as witnessed vs Zero), yet whenever he wants to he can play aggresively just as well (series vs Free). In the winners interview he said he felt like playing aggressive just to show people that he can lol
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On September 06 2010 12:07 Desutroyah wrote:
PS. i dont know how the hell you can be a FlaSh fan, i mean the guy just wins. There's never any thrill or uphill battles. FlaSh is the evil last boss, Jaedong is Rocky.
Flash has more amazing comeback games than anyone I can think of. The guy is a prodigy in crisis management and decision making. It's more represented in his games vs T and P than vs Z, though, because against zergs it seems he either finds a way to completely embarrass them or embarrass himself.
Jaedong has more comeback series because he is a prodigy of mental fortitude.
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On September 06 2010 11:59 cascades wrote:
More worried for Jaedong to be honest. Terran is the cheeser race, not Zerg. Remember the 14CC cheese Jaedong wasn't prepared for? That ended the series real quick.
Although Jaedong won a 2nd game with ling bust, he doesn't do it enough. Not enough times for Flash to 14CC all over again. Jaedong trusts too much in his macro, but you can't outmacro a terran.
You can't outmacro a Terran that goes 14CC maybe. Jaedong proved that he's fully capable of beating Flash in a macro game when they go for standard openings (like the game on Fighting Spirit). I actually think Light's standard bio TvZ is better than Flash's (his game on Fighting Spirit against Jaedong was sublime).
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It's all going to come down to how godlike Flash's starsense will be on that day. I think he has a slight edge in a standard game if he doesn't A) let games go in early game and B) get caught off guard by sneak expansions or tech. He's lost in early game once in both of his last 2 bo5's, and which is a sign he might lose more if Jaedong decides to test him with more early ling builds. I've always thought flash's scouting is his only "weakness"... I think it's well worth it for him to time his scouting much earlier (say at 9/10), and also to continuously check on expos during his games. An informed Flash is an unbeatable Flash.
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Flash has his groove back, its a good thing you're scared for him because I can guarantee he's not afraid of JD at this point.
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Time for the Tyrant to take over! Jaedong fighting!
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Jaedong and Flash are both going to "lay their lives on the line" for this match.
It will make a fine final... final.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I'm terribly scared for Jaedong at this point. I'm already in the process of accepting that flash is simply better than jaedong and their supposed rivalry is nothing more than a hype.
If jaedong fails to take this one then at least to me he will always be below flash.
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I want to see more decent length, non-14 cc games on balanced maps before calling either the better player. JD's game 3 on fighting spirit was really impressive.
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Flash is my least favorite player.
Jaedong was my favorite player.
I don't care about their rivalry anymore. Flash is the best BW player and there is no one around who can challenge him, despite his painfully uninspiring style. BW is dead to me.
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flash is too good now. he's gonna win this osl
i predict that some outside-of-game factor (power outage, crowd hack, etc) will affect the games.
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Jaedong's better. Flash won't be able to play free-econ/tech-advantage-into-2base-all-in-on-wide-open-maps-that-Zerg-can't-defend in the Korean Air OSL 2.
I predict Jaedong will win three games.
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I'm at a loss, I want Jaedong to win, but I really hate Jaedong fan-boys a lot.
Edit: Then again Flash fan-boys are almost as bad, but they usually just act like idiots trolls as opposed to serious-face can't take a joke JD fans.
I think I kind of hope it'll be a close series with Jaedong winning so Plexa doesn't know what the fuck to do for #1 power rank.
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Yes, being a JD fan is tough. Being a JD fan, when he plays Flash is f**ing bloodcurdling. When I watch JD play I always, like, need tons of heat pills, to maintain clear mind for the game. Now can you imagine how devastated was I after previous MSL 3-0 and last 3-2. I was raging, angry and furious and then I became just sad. What came to as an obvious fact after all their games, was, it was a veteran-knight fighting with a perfect steel machine, that was made for killing. There was nothing in JD game that looked convincing enough for him to win, he was like trying so hard to grasp the edge of not to fall, but still always getting behind, outpaced.
Why I like Jaedong? Is maybe because he's so damn like any of us, - furious when you lose, feeling of revenge, die-hard and then come back, always giving a hope. Its like watching a good old movie, where a hero is beaten and when hope is lost, then finds strength to stand up and win, this trick always such a cliche, but it always worked, and we believed, we wanted it to be this way, because its always like me and you. I know that many of JD fans will understand me, I like Jaedong, because he can lose, he can lose like chit, totally overwhelmed, like I lost a 100000 times, but then he will stand up and destroy everything, and give us all a hope, that anything is possible if you are determined enough! You know, its so encouraging, so human-like, this is why I'm his fan.
I am sure that Flash will always lack many fans, more from a phycological point of view, people will first shout "Yeah! you're the greatest!!! Yeah, you showed them!!!" but soon they will do want to see your fall, they will want to see you lose and being destroyed, because, well, we a people, it is the greatest truth about everything we are, being perfect in everything isn't a bad thing, but it leaves you with nothing. It leaves nothing but content in your heart, but only a dead heart is content.
The upcoming finals will be this human statement for me, and for many fans too, statement that perfection and cold calculation is nothing before a determined heart. (In no way do I mean that Flash has no feeling and etc. that many may think I am.) It just how I feel about JD and his rivalry, that in some way my rivalry as a fan, I want it to be a statement of an ordinary willing human in front of the of the inevitable, and I will be by your side JD.
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jaedong should go 9 pool speed into two hatch and win 3-0
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On September 06 2010 11:08 Garaman wrote:
im fucking scared for jaedong.
i hope to god jaedong takes this osl!!
GOOOOOOOO TYRANT!
Yeah I feel like this too. Flash CANNOT be permitted to take the double titles. That aside, I really think if JD will lose this he might need a psychiatrist. He really needs to win this for himself, and for his fans.
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Flash has been dominating JD lately, I feel more concerned for JD as Flash will have less pressure. Also, I would like to see timed mind-game builds from JD (similar to effort vs Flash style) where he can show case some higher wit than Flash.
All in all, would like a 3-2 close games (with at least 2 long games [[30min]]) but hoping JD wins.
(If JD loses again he might become a dead weight as you say)
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Cmon Jaedong it's your turn now!!! Don't disappoint us!
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Jaedong needs to 9 pool speed and 5 pool more often...flash is going macro wayyy too often.
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Baa?21242 Posts
JD 3-1 since the maps are not retarded this time.
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On September 06 2010 18:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
JD 3-1 since the maps are not retarded this time.
+1
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I am really scared for Jeadong, i mean Flash is really imba these days. When you watch his game, it just seems too perfect and easy even against JD. I wish JD takes this OSL title just for the sake of rivalry and i hate Flash ^^
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2 of the most skilled players to exist in Starcraft IMO (not the best since there are several players having won more tournements), but the two most skilled players ever
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On September 06 2010 16:18 DminusTerran wrote:
I'm at a loss, I want Jaedong to win, but I really hate Jaedong fan-boys a lot.
Edit: Then again Flash fan-boys are almost as bad, but they usually just act like idiots trolls as opposed to serious-face can't take a joke JD fans.
I think I kind of hope it'll be a close series with Jaedong winning so Plexa doesn't know what the fuck to do for #1 power rank.
hahahahah! 
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All i gthered when i read the OP was another one of those "Yeah jaedong got raped but we all know he wasnt trying"
He'll most likely lose this also followed by more of the above
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Jaedong has got this, there no way is he going to fizzle with that type of determination.
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United States7481 Posts
On September 06 2010 18:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
JD 3-1 since the maps are not retarded this time.
 that you would say the maps are not retarded while the pool includes zergliner
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Uhh, game one of the OSL wasn't close at all. Flash completely massacred Jaedong.
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[B]
I am sure that Flash will always lack many fans, more from a phycological point of view, people will first shout "Yeah! you're the greatest!!! Yeah, you showed them!!!" but soon they will do want to see your fall, they will want to see you lose and being destroyed, because, well, we a people, it is the greatest truth about everything we are, being perfect in everything isn't a bad thing, but it leaves you with nothing. It leaves nothing but content in your heart, but only a dead heart is content.
...What are you talking about? If you're a fan of someone, you basically NEVER want them to lose.
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I'm scared for Jaedong, he's been losing the latest finals to Flash. T_T
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On September 07 2010 04:45 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +[B]
I am sure that Flash will always lack many fans, more from a phycological point of view, people will first shout "Yeah! you're the greatest!!! Yeah, you showed them!!!" but soon they will do want to see your fall, they will want to see you lose and being destroyed, because, well, we a people, it is the greatest truth about everything we are, being perfect in everything isn't a bad thing, but it leaves you with nothing. It leaves nothing but content in your heart, but only a dead heart is content. ...What are you talking about? If you're a fan of someone, you basically NEVER want them to lose.
Well It's hard to root for flash when he's literally so good he makes the series less fun to watch because all the games are one sided rapes.
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On September 06 2010 13:05 ZlaSHeR wrote:
Flash has his groove back, its a good thing you're scared for him because I can guarantee he's not afraid of JD at this point.
*cough* Flash was so scared of JD that JD had to 4 pool him twice
das wassup
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EPT
