• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:22
CEST 20:22
KST 03:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent0Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4
Community News
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments2Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris54Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Production Quality - Maestros of the Game Vs RSL 2 Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me)
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ The Korean Terminology Thread Pros React To: herO's Baffling Game ASL20 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info! Is there English video for group selection for ASL Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Collective Intelligence: Tea…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1289 users

My thread for observations about Zerg

Blogs > Galois
Post a Reply
Galois
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States124 Posts
August 28 2010 10:49 GMT
#1
I will make this my personal thread for interesting shit I found out out the Zerg that I don't see other people ever bring up on the forums... although I admit that I've never really paid a lot of attention to the Zerg threads in the Strategy forum due to the stigma it has nowadays.

In my previous blog post I wrote that I was feeling the call of the swarm. I feel horrible.

Nevertheless, I've been reading the Zerg strategy section on Liquipedia (because nobody answered my question in the previous blog post about whether or not it was worthwhile to do so, so I assumed that it was)... and when I came across this passage...

When to Build Your Next Hatchery: When a Zerg player has determined that it is best to play with X Hatcheries, (let us say that X is six in this case, and that it's a ZvP in which the Protoss has two bases), the question is, when should Zerg build their next Hatchery? Zerg should always build their next Hatchery as soon as possible, as long as none of their current Hatcheries are at three Larvae. In other words, if the Zerg player lets all of his or her current Hatcheries run idle until all current Hatcheries have three Larvae each, will the Zerg player have 300 Minerals by that time? If so, then the Zerg should make another Hatchery. If not, then the Zerg player needs to build more Drones.


... I decided to find out where this point was with the Zerg in SC2.

The magic number of Drones necessary to get to 300 minerals is 12. 11 Drones will get you to 285.

So by the BW logic, in SC2 the most optimal time to build another Hatchery (note that I didn't say expand) is when you hit 12 Drones. I would guess that Drone #13 goes to Pool and Drone #14 goes to make another Hatchery... or an Extractor then Hatchery.

I don't see the pros do this, though. I watched some Dimaga replays and he always gets his Pool and Extractor on 15.

*
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you / There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
Galois
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States124 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 10:53:24
August 28 2010 10:52 GMT
#2
Also, as I watch Jaedong-Flash in the finals here, I can't help but think that the Zerg need a Dark Swarm. Its like the Zerg's way of telling the Terran armies to fuck off.

I'm not used to looking at things from a Zerg perspective...
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you / There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
Galois
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States124 Posts
August 28 2010 11:09 GMT
#3
Something else I noticed:

Buildings that you make using the Hatchery-cancel trick will stop dying with even the smallest amount of creep underneath them:

[image loading]

[image loading]
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you / There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
Ry-Masta-T
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States478 Posts
August 28 2010 11:11 GMT
#4
i think the key is the 3 larva stipulation. People drone up to 14 or 15 because getting a hatch on 13 will force you to delay drone production early and without those drones, you wont have the income to support the second hatchery. Getting a queen first is typically better, so people get that pool before the hatch more often than not.
Speak the word...
Galois
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States124 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 12:26:31
August 28 2010 11:47 GMT
#5
I just looked more at it and the rule in BW that I quoted in the op can apply here just as well. Its not that it isn't cost-effective... its just that there's a better option, and that's the Spawn Larvae by the Queen.

A Hatchery takes 120 seconds to build and larvae take 10 seconds to spawn.

A Queen needs 50 real-time seconds (it takes 1.5 real-life seconds to get 1 energy) to be able to setup the Spawn Larvae and 40 more seconds to get the larvae to mature.

So if your Queen timing is bad then its most cost-effective to have the Queen handle 2 Hatcheries so that you can get off 2 Larvae spells at once.

Even though I never read Chill's thread about about this stuff at the Blizzcon those years ago (because I hated Zerg), I'm pretty sure that this is the jist of what that long thread was about.

So Hatcheries are only worthwhile to use for expansions, not for a macro boost. That explains why there's so many 1 base matches in this game!
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you / There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Maestros of the Game
17:00
Group Stage - Group D
Maru vs Lambo
herO vs ShoWTimE
ComeBackTV 1178
SteadfastSC456
IndyStarCraft 262
CranKy Ducklings213
BRAT_OK 126
Rex91
CosmosSc2 76
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 456
IndyStarCraft 262
ProTech130
BRAT_OK 126
SpeCial 104
Rex 91
CosmosSc2 76
JuggernautJason21
MindelVK 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 746
sSak 66
Hyun 45
Free 43
scan(afreeca) 42
Backho 38
Terrorterran 19
Hm[arnc] 6
Stormgate
BeoMulf77
Dota 2
The International98823
Gorgc17605
Dendi564
Fuzer 369
XcaliburYe132
KheZu16
Counter-Strike
fl0m4026
Stewie2K194
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang01014
Mew2King92
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu527
Khaldor317
Other Games
FrodaN1205
Grubby751
B2W.Neo591
KnowMe245
Sick209
Hui .199
ToD193
JimRising 192
SortOf77
QueenE66
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1888
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 31
• Adnapsc2 13
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 14
• FirePhoenix5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2170
League of Legends
• Jankos1435
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur189
Other Games
• imaqtpie1015
Upcoming Events
BSL Team Wars
38m
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
15h 38m
Monday Night Weeklies
21h 38m
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs SHIN
Reynor vs Zoun
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Maru
Online Event
4 days
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
5 days
Cosmonarchy
5 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Ultimate Battle Special: Larva vs Mini
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21: BSL Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.