• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:55
CET 09:55
KST 17:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League64Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War [Recap] 0-6 Defeat for Mong's Team Bot on ladder Young Players Tournament Announced by SOOP Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away.
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7511 users

My thread for observations about Zerg

Blogs > Galois
Post a Reply
Galois
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States124 Posts
August 28 2010 10:49 GMT
#1
I will make this my personal thread for interesting shit I found out out the Zerg that I don't see other people ever bring up on the forums... although I admit that I've never really paid a lot of attention to the Zerg threads in the Strategy forum due to the stigma it has nowadays.

In my previous blog post I wrote that I was feeling the call of the swarm. I feel horrible.

Nevertheless, I've been reading the Zerg strategy section on Liquipedia (because nobody answered my question in the previous blog post about whether or not it was worthwhile to do so, so I assumed that it was)... and when I came across this passage...

When to Build Your Next Hatchery: When a Zerg player has determined that it is best to play with X Hatcheries, (let us say that X is six in this case, and that it's a ZvP in which the Protoss has two bases), the question is, when should Zerg build their next Hatchery? Zerg should always build their next Hatchery as soon as possible, as long as none of their current Hatcheries are at three Larvae. In other words, if the Zerg player lets all of his or her current Hatcheries run idle until all current Hatcheries have three Larvae each, will the Zerg player have 300 Minerals by that time? If so, then the Zerg should make another Hatchery. If not, then the Zerg player needs to build more Drones.


... I decided to find out where this point was with the Zerg in SC2.

The magic number of Drones necessary to get to 300 minerals is 12. 11 Drones will get you to 285.

So by the BW logic, in SC2 the most optimal time to build another Hatchery (note that I didn't say expand) is when you hit 12 Drones. I would guess that Drone #13 goes to Pool and Drone #14 goes to make another Hatchery... or an Extractor then Hatchery.

I don't see the pros do this, though. I watched some Dimaga replays and he always gets his Pool and Extractor on 15.

*
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you / There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
Galois
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States124 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 10:53:24
August 28 2010 10:52 GMT
#2
Also, as I watch Jaedong-Flash in the finals here, I can't help but think that the Zerg need a Dark Swarm. Its like the Zerg's way of telling the Terran armies to fuck off.

I'm not used to looking at things from a Zerg perspective...
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you / There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
Galois
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States124 Posts
August 28 2010 11:09 GMT
#3
Something else I noticed:

Buildings that you make using the Hatchery-cancel trick will stop dying with even the smallest amount of creep underneath them:

[image loading]

[image loading]
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you / There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
Ry-Masta-T
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States478 Posts
August 28 2010 11:11 GMT
#4
i think the key is the 3 larva stipulation. People drone up to 14 or 15 because getting a hatch on 13 will force you to delay drone production early and without those drones, you wont have the income to support the second hatchery. Getting a queen first is typically better, so people get that pool before the hatch more often than not.
Speak the word...
Galois
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States124 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 12:26:31
August 28 2010 11:47 GMT
#5
I just looked more at it and the rule in BW that I quoted in the op can apply here just as well. Its not that it isn't cost-effective... its just that there's a better option, and that's the Spawn Larvae by the Queen.

A Hatchery takes 120 seconds to build and larvae take 10 seconds to spawn.

A Queen needs 50 real-time seconds (it takes 1.5 real-life seconds to get 1 energy) to be able to setup the Spawn Larvae and 40 more seconds to get the larvae to mature.

So if your Queen timing is bad then its most cost-effective to have the Queen handle 2 Hatcheries so that you can get off 2 Larvae spells at once.

Even though I never read Chill's thread about about this stuff at the Blizzcon those years ago (because I hated Zerg), I'm pretty sure that this is the jist of what that long thread was about.

So Hatcheries are only worthwhile to use for expansions, not for a macro boost. That explains why there's so many 1 base matches in this game!
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you / There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 5m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 3899
Horang2 1187
firebathero 891
Mind 383
Larva 335
Hyuk 213
Leta 167
Stork 126
Killer 123
Mong 88
[ Show more ]
Barracks 85
Shinee 65
ToSsGirL 58
scan(afreeca) 48
Movie 40
Bale 32
Yoon 28
Shine 27
NaDa 26
Free 24
ZergMaN 21
sorry 17
yabsab 17
zelot 13
soO 9
Counter-Strike
Sick72
Other Games
summit1g10676
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL12503
Other Games
gamesdonequick1130
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 18
[ Show 9 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
FEL
1h 5m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1h 5m
Replay Cast
14h 5m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 3h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.