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Active: 1613 users

Maps are not mods.

Blogs > IskatuMesk
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IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 22:50:08
July 23 2010 22:47 GMT
#1
With sc2 on the horizon I'd like to clear up some terminology so I don't get a hernia every time someone confuses them.

First we must establish what we're talking about.

Maps, mods, and campaigns are forms of delivering custom content. What differs between them past semantic terminology is the environment this content is delivered in, the type of content, and the audience it's geared towards.

[image loading]

Maps are not mods. They are very different.

A quick tl;dr bullet-point definition;

Map
- Small package, arbitrarily limited filesize (8mb in wc3, 10mb in Sc2 beta). Has very little custom assets ie graphics and voice acting or very low quality assets to conserve filespace.
- Takes advantage of region-dependent triggering for mechanics, spells, events, ect. (DotA heroes, creep waves, spawn points, ect).
- Contents of the map are exclusive to that map. Python and Outsider have different terrain. DotA has custom attributes, kitbashes, and sounds from UT. If you play DotA and then Castlefight, you're experiencing two different "games", but the elements are limited to each individual map.
Mod
- Effects the entire game. Menus, load screens, music, everything. Changes occur on every map regardless of content as long as the map is not loading assets that conflict/supercede those of the mod. For example, if I have custom Firelord unit responses in my mod you'll hear them in DotA.
- Mod is ran externally and changes persist until you exit the game. Because it's external and not run through battle.net its filesize is unlimited. This means a massive amount of custom assets are usually present.
- Because mods function on every map, they generally do not have map-dependent triggering that relies on preplaced regions or terrain or whatnot. This generally means that the mod is usually the same genre of the game it mods (A mod of Starcraft will almost always be an RTS, even if core mechanics are fundamentally altered like in Ad Astras or Armageddon Onslaught).
Campaign
- A campaign will typically use an external archive not unlike that of a mod, but relies on maps to deliver the content linearly or openly to the player. Ultimately, the campaign archive can still potentially function like a mod, but it's designed to work in co-existence with a set of maps.


Currently, Starcraft 2 does not support mods. Neither did Starcraft, Warcraft 3, or Diablo 2. But the three former games can be modded through third party tools.

What Blizzard calls a "mod" in Starcraft 2 is actually a streamlined, more easy to use version of their campaign system in wc3. You must modify the maps to tell them to use the external archive - a fundamental difference between a Campaign and a Mod, as mods most often do not need you to modify any maps at all for them to work.

However, what concerns me more than terminology semantics is Blizzard's stance on modding. They are under the impression that maps are mods for some silly reason. As a result, sc2 has no way to globally alter the game and take advantage of unlimited archives except through modifying the patch mpq files (this is also how you can get Zelniq's Manly Soundpack to work on battle.net again, as they disabled folder hotloading for release). Previously you've been able to run mods of wc3 and brood war without any issue at all, but they might be more heavy-handed with B.net 2.0.

The best solution would be to provide a mod loading menu like Sins of a Solar Empire and Supreme Commander. These either load an archive or a preset directory that can contain however many elements you desire. Currently, if you try to mod the game and play with someone who doesn't have it, it just crashes or drops you. With a mod loader, the game doesn't have to transfer the huge files over b.net (you download them from a website preferably), but it checks if you have the same version of the mod (SoaSE uses hash checks or something iirc). This gives us the best of both worlds; mappers can keep doing their thing and us modders can have our restriction-free modding environment without stepping on anyone's toes or expecting B.net to handle stupidly large file transfers.

The more you know!



One of my other pet peeves is people who fully capitalize "mod". You don't call someone BOB in all caps, short for Bobby, do you?

/edit Don't type posts like this so early in the morning.

*****
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
July 23 2010 22:55 GMT
#2
walk into the HoN realm, and mod means something completely different from even what u wrote here altogether.
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
July 23 2010 22:57 GMT
#3
On July 24 2010 07:55 waffling1 wrote:
walk into the HoN realm, and mod means something completely different from even what u wrote here altogether.


Never played HoN . Just speaking largely from the perspective of Blizzard games, but this can apply to many other games as well.
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
July 23 2010 23:21 GMT
#4
it seems mod has typically been using a 3rd party tool to modify the game.

but blizzard made their regular editor much more powerful to allow the functions that you had to turn to 3rd party modification programs to do. so now u can do the exact same tweak only ur using the official editor rather than a 3rd party modification prog.

seems to me that any 3rd party, or ground-up coding is a what is called mod.

btw, a mod in HoN is built by writing your own code in xml that literally modifies the UI, visuals (not actually anything related to gameplay). 1) 3rd party/ground up 2) UI only.

in SC2, mods certainly can affect actual gameplay huh.



it is sort of weird to hear dota being called a mod, but in the end i think ppl won't care much, and naturally call them the correct things.



iskatumesk: consider the pro mod. how would u classify it and why?
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 23:29:24
July 23 2010 23:27 GMT
#5
I didn't pay much attention to the pro mod. Did it globally change the game on every map? Then yes, it's a mod.

For most players there is not much of a reason to care about naming semantics, because actual "mods" are going to die completely with sc2. Almost none existed for wc3. Diablo 2 is the currently the most heavily modded game of Blizzard's by far. And those mods are always played on LAN through hamachi or somesuch. Which.. doesn't exist in sc2 at all. So, yeah.

With Sc1 it's easy to differ mods. In sc1 you can do a billion and one things in a mod you can't touch in a map. And while wc3 and sc2's editors offer you much more powerful, and you CAN create mods with them (by bringing their data into a mod archive), individual maps are still just maps and are very limited when played through battle.net.

By your definition HoN mods are actual mods just like I said, then. Just like WoW addons.
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
July 23 2010 23:50 GMT
#6
speaking of misnomers, i have a problem with korean castser calling every push a "rush"

it seems that they think a rush has to do with lots of amounts of units rather than asap timing.
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 23:54:54
July 23 2010 23:54 GMT
#7
I guess it could be them using it in a different context. To rush as in to attack quickly in reaction or to force a reaction. But in SC context that does sound very weird and I hear it a lot with English players/commentators as well.

Kind of like metagame and cheese, I suppose. Those can be a bit harder to define depending on who you ask.

I try to avoid using those terms altogether except cheese when it's horribly obvious :p
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-24 00:06:15
July 24 2010 00:04 GMT
#8
yeah, i know in korean they take a lot of english words, and subtley infuse a different notion into the word. It is such that u see the basic etymological connection, but as an english speaker theres this feeling that something is off, and only after u think about it, does it descend upon you, "Whaaaaaa?"

an example is "scandal" a scandal is any sort of public corruption.

but koreans use it almost exclusively to mean public release of romantic relationships between celebrities.

one celebrity hooking up with another doesnt have to be negative or corrupt or "scandalous". even a normal innocent thing is a scandal. as an english peaker, the feeling is like a bunch of bugs underneath your skin.

Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
July 24 2010 00:35 GMT
#9
Wow, I'm surprised at the size limits for maps, things are headed backwards.

I've got some BW UMS maps here that are >20mbs and work alone without a mod loader.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
July 24 2010 00:47 GMT
#10
On July 24 2010 09:35 Zona wrote:
Wow, I'm surprised at the size limits for maps, things are headed backwards.

I've got some BW UMS maps here that are >20mbs and work alone without a mod loader.


Ah yes. Probably people sticking .wav music into the map that is ridiculously huge.

Do they work over b.net, though? The single player maps don't have the limit, it's a b.net imposed limit (Same with wc3, but the limit also exists in wc3 campaigns. For some reason a campaign can't have an individual map over that size either. It doesn't give an error, it just kicks you back to the campaign menu. Very odd.)
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