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Well, I always like making these threads, but they aren't allowed on TL, so they always find their way to the blogs. Since I already had one earlier I'm just going to edit it instead of making a brand new topic, and just see if people would like to see the game move in the same direction I've been thinking of...
NOTE: All these changes might have far too radical effects, so they're different suggestion changes to throw out there. Maybe you see TWO or THREE changes total (or hopefully from each race) and agree with how they'd more so balance each race at each point of the game.
General
- All massive units may now crush broodlings
Terran
- Repairing SCVs now gain priority as target they are repairing
- Stim upgrade now costs 150/150 from 100/100
- Mule now experiences a 10s cooldown after casting, scans now cost 40 energy from 50
- Marine base health reduced to 40HP from 45HP, combat shields now give +15HP from +10.
- Reactor build time reduced from 50s to 42s
- Raven cost reduced to 75/175 from 100/200
- Siege Tank Siege Mode damage now deals additional +10 vs massive, gains +5 damage to base attack per upgrade (from +3 base, +5 vs armored)
- Siege tanks now given ability to "hold fire" in siege mode
- Neosteel Frame (still 100/100) upgrade changed now to allow Command centers can now convert freely between Orbital Command and Planetary Fortress. Must pay cost to transition (ie. OC -> PF = 150/150, not refunded initial cost).
- Command Center build time reduced by 5s
- Bunker salvage cannot be performed when under attacked. Timer is stopped when bunker is taking damage, or on fire.
- Nitro packs no longer requires factory. Cost increased to 75/75 from 50/50.
- EMP projectile speed decreased to BW speeds (from science vessel).
Zerg
- Burrow cost reduced to 75/75 from 100/100, research time reduced to 75s from 100s
- Spine crawler buildtime reduced by 5s.
- Roach Range reduced to 3 from 4. Roach Range upgrade now available at Roach warren for 50/50, build time 35s.
- All Zerg units, except for the ultralisk and baneling, now burrow immediatley, similar to the roach
- Hatcheries now finish with 2 larvae (from 1), build time reduced by 5s
- Overlord base speed increased from .4687 to .55
- Hydralisk range cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150
- Hydralisk speed upgrade added at hydralisk den for 150/150. Increases hydralisk speed by .4.
- Hydralisk no longer gains unique speed bonus on creep. Changed to generic amount.
- Fungal growth now deals damage directly to protoss units, bypassing shields. Cannot kill the unit unless shields are down, however.
- Individual hatcheries can no longer support more than 7 larvae.
Protoss
- Warp gate now costs 100/100 from 50/50
- High Templar and Dark Templar can no longer be warped in from the warp gate and must be produced from the gateway.
- Dark Shrine build time reduced from 100s to 65s
- Hallucination cost now reduced to 75/75 from 100/100, research time reduced to 50s from 60s
- Zealot build time reduced by 4s.
- Archon now considered to be massive (immune to slowdown)
- Gateway build time increased by 5s
- Cybernetic core build time reduced by 5s
- Twilight council cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/100
- Charge now costs 150/150 to research from 200/200
- Psi Storm now costs 100/100 to research from 200/200
- Khaydarin Amulet now costs 100/100 from 150/150
- Robotics Bay cost reduced to 150/150 from 200/200
- Thermal lance upgrade now changed to "robotics range upgrade," and increases both immortal and colossus range by 1 instead of increasing Colossus range by 2
- Nexus build time reduced by 5s
- Phoenix build time reduced to 35s from 45s
- Protoss +2 air weapons and armor no longer require fleet beacon to research
- Carrier build time reduced to 100s from 120s, Mothership build time reduced to 120s from 160s
- Protoss photon cannon shields/hp reduced to 100/100 from 150/150, deal +10 damage vs armored.
  
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Lay off the hydralisk. Speed upgrade at hive? YOU CRAZY?
Also you messed with creep. Zerg are insanely slow without that creep, don't touch it. Otherwise meh, I could see some of these changes working. Your shield upgrades are insanity however. 30% DR across the board with the third upgrade? OH dear.
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So many drastic changes that it is impossible to know or even speculate on how they would effect the game..
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On June 04 2010 14:24 Jayme wrote:
Lay off the hydralisk. Speed upgrade at hive? YOU CRAZY?
Also you messed with creep. Zerg are insanely slow without that creep, don't touch it. Otherwise meh, I could see some of these changes working. Your shield upgrades are insanity however. 30% DR across the board with the third upgrade? OH dear.
Oops. I meant to the immortal only.
I don't understand why a speed upgrade at hive is crazy? Gives more incentive to move to the hive tech, and doesn't affect lair balance.
The creep bonus increases speed by 50%, which is insane. Assuming I don't change the speed of the queen, I'm not sure why we need speedlings, roaches with a speed upgrade, or any other unit for that matter to move faster on the creep. If you do the math 1.25 is still quite noticable.
On June 04 2010 14:25 sob3k wrote:
So many drastic changes that it is impossible to know or even speculate on how they would effect the game..
Which is why I said it's more so for the role the unit has than how it will effect balance... I told you, just assume the balance will somewhat play out, and the units can definitely be tweaked. But the role... ie. the corrupter example in teh OP, or Reapers being slightly more midgame and being able to be less paperweights (more hp, more dmg vs normal, increased speed and decreased buildtime, but require a tech building so they can't be rushed).
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United States1610 Posts
i dont think your reaper changes would fix its problems either
im not sure what to do with it
it needs some way to stand up in straight up fights, whether that be an upgrade or whatever
i think some manually casted grenades would be fun 
some of your changes are obvious, such as eng bay lift off..duh blizzard?
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wow i like alot of those changes, i just wish blizzard would also >.>
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If you change so many things at once, I can't even imagine how many unforeseen imbalances will pop up.
The focus should be a bit more on maps rather than units atm, since the game is still very new.
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On June 04 2010 14:32 alphafuzard wrote:i dont think your reaper changes would fix its problems either im not sure what to do with it it needs some way to stand up in straight up fights, whether that be an upgrade or whatever i think some manually casted grenades would be fun some of your changes are obvious, such as eng bay lift off..duh blizzard?
Well I think teh purpose of the unit is more so for harassing and for scouting information (saves you scans) than being able to actually stand up in a fight. However, those four changes would still be a step in the right direction if you wanted them to be more durable, would they not?
I originally wanted to incorporate combat shields into the reapers, but realized that it would most likely not make sense in that a big bulky shield would slow them down, and even more so, reduce their damage because they have duel wielding pistols  .
On June 04 2010 14:44 superbabosheki wrote:
If you change so many things at once, I can't even imagine how many unforeseen imbalances will pop up.
The focus should be a bit more on maps rather than units atm, since the game is still very new.
Eh, I musn't have made it clear; these changes are more so to change the role of the unit than keep the game balanced. I'm not concerned with that and definitely wouldn't have made so many changes if that was the case. I'll edit the OP to make it clearer though, sorry for that!
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Well I'm bumping this instead of making a new topic, was simply bored, throwing out different potential changes, that I think of in my free time because... I get bored! Lots of suggestions on how to tweak the game, although I'm not suggesting all these changes would have to be made simultaneously.
Lemme know what you think.
I'm aware I'm not a top player btw.
If you want to know my justifications for the changes...
0. Thors now can crush broodlings, meaning the Terran army can still somewhat move forward. Broodlords would still counter broodlords very well nonetheless, just makes Terran less reliant on only vikings.
1. Increase in cost of stim, reduced marine base HP are both targeted at reducing Terran very early game strength. Stalkers and Zerglings (and workers!) now take 1 less hit to kill marines.
2. Siege tanks at the moment suck vs Ultralisks and Colossus. Would be nice to see them perform better. Hold fire to make them less shitty once broodlords come out, so you don't have to unsiege.
3. Ability to transform between CC/PF helps T lategame adapt
4. Decrease by 5s of CC/Hatch/Nexus to promote more macro play. Also helps Zerg vs SCV/Marine all-in
5. Reaper speed play now more available again. 5rax reaper still won't be viable with increased nitro packs cost coupled with roach ability to have 4 range.
6. Faster burrow/reduced cost makes getting burrowed banelings much more viable vs marine spamming terrans. At the very least will force more scans. Spine time reduction also helps vs initial rushes.
7. One additional larvae from completed hatcheries will have very negligible effects past the initial hatchery completing. This will once again make 2rax scv all-in less prevalent.
8. Ovie base speed increase will allow better scouting
9. Hydras still suck balls. They have an ungodly speed on the creep 1.5x multiplier instead of 1.3, which would need to be taken out if they get a speed upgrade
10. Fungals appear to be widely unused by Zerg vs Protoss.
11. Warp Gate cost change reduces the power of toss aggression early game by increasing the cost of warpgates, while not directly actually nerfing the actual army itself.
12. High templar with energy upgrade amulet is ridiculous vs terran lategame, when toss isn't spending anything else on gas because their army comp is mostly chargelot/high temp.
13. Initial zealot now comes out slightly slower than currently normal, but zealots will then stream in as reinforcements faster, making 2gate slightly more powerful overall vs Zerg but initial Zealot gets their later giving Zerg more time (especially with 5s reduction in hatch cost, 5s reduction in spine timing). Stalker will still get out at near identical timings if you go gate -> core.
14. Protoss reliance on the colossus lightened slightly with -1 range, while making the immortal slightly more important.
15. Costs to actually tech beyond gateway are now much easier, with robo being 50/50 cheaper, and range being 100/100 cheaper. Also, twilight council is now 50 minerals cheaper, with DT/HT tech also available much sooner and cheaper to help out in the middle game and make transitioning much easier. Dark shrine build time reduced to compensate for lack of ability to warp in DT.
16. Photon cannon rushes are too strong vs Zerg. But weakening them could make them much worse in holding off roach timing attacks. Thus their hp is reduced, making drones/lings fight them off much better, while they are compensated with higher dmg vs roaches (and marauders!). Also makes cannons better vs ultras lategame, which is the only other noticable change, which is good imo.
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My general impression is that you are turning this back to Brood War
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On December 14 2010 22:14 Exteray wrote:
My general impression is that you are turning this back to Brood War
that is a good thing?
sadly, you cannot turn sc2 into broodwar while mbs and infinite unit selection exists.
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On December 14 2010 22:14 Exteray wrote:
My general impression is that you are turning this back to Brood War
How...? Minus hydralisk speed, which I'd say would actually make it feel more zergish instead of slow...
Marine HP has nothing to do with BW, it's just a balance adjustment. Nothing else really stands out to me as BW-esque. Keep in mind it's a ton of suggestions not necessarily "I want all these in at once."
Anyways, it was just something I did last night when I was bored 
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EPT
