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jpak
United States5045 Posts
![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/showImage.asp?realFile=FFNEWS20061202003601001.JPG) Although many here on TL have erased your name from their memories, I will not. That moment, when you held that Starleague trophy up high after bringing the Zerg race out of darkness forever, will always stay with you. ![[image loading]](http://www.mymym.com/gfx/savior-osl-win.jpg) Good bye, Savior. You will be remembered forever.    | ||
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
or maybe not in jail? | ||
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shieldbreak
United States406 Posts
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
i never really respected just how important and great a figure he was in progaming, until well, this scandal. it's terrible, but i hope it will never overshadow his incredible career. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
He had the heart of champion and he's the reason why I got into SC again and the reason I play zerg. | ||
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dangots0ul
United States919 Posts
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yes9111
United States420 Posts
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Infernus
Norway222 Posts
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
On June 02 2010 07:38 dangots0ul wrote: never heard of him. he was the zerg bonjwa i think or something like that | ||
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FireBlast!
United Kingdom5251 Posts
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QuickSandSlowly
China95 Posts
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
On June 02 2010 07:44 Infernus wrote: Whos that? he was zerg user or something | ||
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Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
On June 02 2010 07:49 Nal_rAwr wrote: he was the zerg bonjwa i think or something like that you mean iloveoov? | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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moopie
12605 Posts
kwanro. | ||
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ohN
United States1075 Posts
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Rkie
United States1278 Posts
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SC2Phoenix
Canada2814 Posts
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nath
United States1788 Posts
i cannot forgive....but i will anyway | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
On June 02 2010 07:27 Megalisk wrote: I don't think anyone denies his amazing skill at starcraft, or his accomplishments, but on the personal level, he was a dick. Didn't know you knew the guy personally. Can you get me an autograph? The match fixing scandal makes savior even more of a hero in my eyes. Progamers have little to no future after their prime, and for that reason I would have made as much skrilla as I could when I could if I were in his situation. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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selboN
United States2523 Posts
On June 02 2010 08:36 nath wrote: no. i cannot forgive....but i will anyway looking for the "I don't care" option. | ||
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
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SanguineToss
Canada815 Posts
rofl what he did was wrong yes but people make mistakes | ||
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NuKedUFirst
Canada3139 Posts
Flash for B***** Go.Go for ..?who? ---- I think everyone makes mistakes but when he was doing it although highly bad of his, he looked and said "fuck it, im not making much money as a progamer, why not just grab a few bucks from these dudes.." | ||
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kOre
Canada3642 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
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dani_caliKorea
730 Posts
 Hwasin | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
On June 02 2010 08:47 krndandaman wrote: he's being a dick because essentially, he's stealing money from others (and allowing the ringleaders of the scandal to steal money as well). How? the poor people who bet on savior lose all their money Stealing money from people who use illegal gambling sites? How is that any different from what a casino does? | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On June 02 2010 09:49 Butigroove wrote: Stealing money from people who use illegal gambling sites? How is that any different from what a casino does? casinos pay taxes unless you live in America and have a very loose blood tie to a native American group, ofc only like 3 native American casinos are super rich in the US. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20026 Posts
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
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DrivE
United States2554 Posts
On June 02 2010 08:53 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Savior is always #1 in my heart | ||
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djcube
United States985 Posts
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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Gryffindor_us
United States5606 Posts
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EsX_Raptor
United States2801 Posts
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Ry-Masta-T
United States478 Posts
Still brings tears to my eyes. I will always love you savior! | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
On June 02 2010 09:21 SanguineToss wrote: love the amount of haters in this thread rofl what he did was wrong yes but people make mistakes did he admitted his mistake? No | ||
alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On June 02 2010 10:12 decafchicken wrote: i will always love you savior. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGAkoMuxuAY fuck i dont know whether to love him or hate him . actually i'm probably gonna side with love. i wasn't there to watch him back when he was still only a rookie but i first started to watch him after he dismantled nada on Luna The Final with beautiful zerg management style play... 3 hatch muta followed by hydra den while taking the bottom left corner expos defendinig with lurkers. then suddenly he has a billion hydralurk with insanely good swarm play... hydralurk was just all over nada's base in seconds. after that he started to own the then evil last boss iloveoov . like totally domination ownage i was like this is unbelievable who is this guy?!?!! i'm so sad that he did this...... >_< fuck he was so badass back then it was so insane to watch | ||
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
AHHHHHHHH so sad :< | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
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Draconizard
628 Posts
On June 02 2010 18:30 DragoonPK wrote: In my opinion, if you loved savior before this incident, you should still love him now. You loved him without realizing what he has become, and I am sure that Savior wasnt like this since he started. People change, you loved the Savior you knew, not the Savior that is currently in mass of shit because of the crimes he has commited. Savior is not a person, Savior is a legacy, Savior is what we thought he used to be... Oh please, I would hope that most people are mature enough to understand that humans are complex individuals and that everyone has flaws great or small. There is no need to try and compartmentalize these people; accept them for who and what they are or not. It's rather silly to selectively cut away parts of their characters so that they can be put upon pedestals for worship. | ||
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
sAviOr <3 | ||
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nK)Duke
Germany936 Posts
..... ![[image loading]](http://img.news.yahoo.co.kr/picture/b3/20060928/b320060928_27342646.jpg) | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
On June 02 2010 18:43 Draconizard wrote: Oh please, I would hope that most people are mature enough to understand that humans are complex individuals and that everyone has flaws great or small. There is no need to try and compartmentalize these people; accept them for who and what they are or not. It's rather silly to selectively cut away parts of their characters so that they can be put upon pedestals for worship. Im just saying, I remember Savior as the savior of zerg rather than savior the evil mastermind. | ||
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omg.deus
Korea (South)150 Posts
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Boundz(DarKo)
5311 Posts
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17727 Posts
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Sprite
United States1015 Posts
For every night a TL member that watched his games and cheered him on, for every "I will destroy everyone in 2009!" post, for every time he would shock us with a fantastic win or even a horrible loss, for all those times when people fiercely defended him as Bonjwa, for all the blood sweat and tears of the people to develop e-sports. Savior has betrayed his fan's trust on such a degree. For all those times Savior and Firebathero fans got into it i thought it was an epic rivalry but now when I watch the video of FBH dancing around Savior I don't see a champion falling from grace, but a game that could have been thrown, and that thought just ruins those memories of watching those truly epic games. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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Gann1
United States1575 Posts
On June 02 2010 11:05 Gryffindor_us wrote: Jesus christ, the proclivity for this community to forgive the most grievous of occurrences can be so revolting. Ughhhh. agreed, it really is disgusting... reminds me of when people actually argued that the people who abused TSL ladder should be allowed to compete in the tournament "because they would have qualified anyway" | ||
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MaTaAeRuKaNa
United States95 Posts
i've been more or less following the scene since boxer and let me tell you the ma bonjwa era was something. it was different than today's mechanical games. it was magical. as a terran player, this to me is still the most terrrifying display of zerg power ever recorded | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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TunaFishyMe
Canada150 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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ForSC2
United States580 Posts
On June 04 2010 06:19 Gann1 wrote: agreed, it really is disgusting... reminds me of when people actually argued that the people who abused TSL ladder should be allowed to compete in the tournament "because they would have qualified anyway" Sir, I can think of a lot of things much more disgusting the fans/community do then standing by someone that gave up their life to be discredited and villainized for the best parts, pitied and humiliated for the worst parts, and discredited and villianized again forever at the lowest point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131156 On June 16 2010 02:06 Mortality wrote: I just what to point out that while progamers aren't as heavily into this community as they are the Korean communities, many of you contributed to this mess. Every time I see things like Sangho I think there's something very wrong with this world. Most match fixers got a few thousand dollars when they literally gave up everything in life to play a game while being the same age or younger than we are. If you said go.go go hang yourself do you think that's appropriate? If someone said Sangho go kill yourself match fixer would that be right? Do you really think the core of what happened to Sangho was because of Savior or the mob mentality of the fans? On May 21 2010 23:37 omninmo wrote: who cares... its hwasin. poor guy just wanted to get paid so he could keep up with his friends' gucci habits. he got caught, and now he is "sorry...really sorry"... i wonder how much of his ill-gotten lip gloss, rings, sunglasses, silk socks, britches, kerchiefs, etc. were returned? Do you realize not one person apologized to Sangho or took responsibility. Everyone blamed the "Korean" netizens when people here had the exact same attitude. And even if people did apologize what could it do? His father collapsed in the hospital and he genuinely considered suicide. You think Savior caused that? Do you really think standing by Savior is the most disgusting thing the fans/community does? I'm going to say this plainly, the core of the mob mentality, fans had that caused Sangho to contemplate suicide is the same core that caused Savior's psychological damage and mental state. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNqrvSXCzWU That's why it bothered me when I'd see people ragging on Savior when the guy experienced more mental hardships from Starcraft than any other player and I'd imagine he justifiably hates the game. Sangho contemplated suicide after 2 months. How long has Savior been where he is? I struggled to explain this a long time ago and frankly I didn't do a good job, and now he's going to jail. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=102063 Sangho wrote: “The reason I wanted to do this interview was not because I wanted to prove my innocence. I just don’t want another victim like me to appear again. I sincerely ask of the netizens to not forget that just one little rumor from you can make you the same as a criminal, to almost kill a man. I hope no one gets hurt like Id id again.” If people would just look at themselves before criticizing others we'd live in a much better world. This is prison: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=136858 Do you wish this on Savior? + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDLPQiboykY | ||
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MaTaAeRuKaNa
United States95 Posts
On July 19 2010 16:15 ForSC2 wrote: Sir, I can think of a lot of things much more disgusting the fans/community do then standing by someone that gave up their life to be discredited and villainized for the best parts, pitied and humiliated for the worst parts, and discredited and villianized again forever at the lowest point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131156 Every time I see things like Sangho I think there's something very wrong with this world. Most match fixers got a few thousand dollars when they literally gave up everything in life to play a game while being the same age or younger than we are. If you said go.go go hang yourself do you think that's appropriate? If someone said Sangho go kill yourself match fixer would that be right? Do you really think the core of what happened to Sangho was because of Savior or the mob mentality of the fans? Do you realize not one person apologized to Sangho or took responsibility. Everyone blamed the "Korean" netizens when people here had the exact same attitude. And even if people did apologize what could it do? His father collapsed in the hospital and he genuinely considered suicide. You think Savior caused that? Do you really think standing by Savior is the most disgusting thing the fans/community does? I'm going to say this plainly, the core of the mob mentality, fans had that caused Sangho to contemplate suicide is the same core that caused Savior's psychological damage and mental state. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNqrvSXCzWU That's why it bothered me when I'd see people ragging on Savior when the guy experienced more mental hardships from Starcraft than any other player and I'd imagine he justifiably hates the game. Sangho contemplated suicide after 2 months. How long has Savior been where he is? I struggled to explain this a long time ago and frankly I didn't do a good job, and now he's going to jail. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=102063 If people would just look at themselves before criticizing others we'd live in a much better world. This is prison: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=136858 Do you wish this on Savior? + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDLPQiboykY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSDwB-5xFok http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txtAyoKLh3A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb2CU6A7uZ0 Wow. This should be a final edit | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On June 02 2010 07:27 Megalisk wrote: I don't think anyone denies his amazing skill at starcraft, or his accomplishments, but on the personal level, he was a dick. You never knew him on a personal level :S It's really absurd to think you know a person just from TV shows and newspaper articles that talk about him. I still like Ma Jae Yoon. I still like Alexei Yashin. Sue me. I don't think anyone who met either of these people in person disliked them at all. I think what happened is horrible, but I don't know anything so I refrain my judgment about specific people. It's everybody's fault and it's nobody's fault. That's usually the truth. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On July 19 2010 16:15 ForSC2 wrote: Sir, I can think of a lot of things much more disgusting the fans/community do then standing by someone that gave up their life to be discredited and villainized for the best parts, pitied and humiliated for the worst parts, and discredited and villianized again forever at the lowest point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131156 Every time I see things like Sangho I think there's something very wrong with this world. Most match fixers got a few thousand dollars when they literally gave up everything in life to play a game while being the same age or younger than we are. If you said go.go go hang yourself do you think that's appropriate? If someone said Sangho go kill yourself match fixer would that be right? Do you really think the core of what happened to Sangho was because of Savior or the mob mentality of the fans? Do you realize not one person apologized to Sangho or took responsibility. Everyone blamed the "Korean" netizens when people here had the exact same attitude. And even if people did apologize what could it do? His father collapsed in the hospital and he genuinely considered suicide. You think Savior caused that? Do you really think standing by Savior is the most disgusting thing the fans/community does? I'm going to say this plainly, the core of the mob mentality, fans had that caused Sangho to contemplate suicide is the same core that caused Savior's psychological damage and mental state. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNqrvSXCzWU That's why it bothered me when I'd see people ragging on Savior when the guy experienced more mental hardships from Starcraft than any other player and I'd imagine he justifiably hates the game. Sangho contemplated suicide after 2 months. How long has Savior been where he is? I struggled to explain this a long time ago and frankly I didn't do a good job, and now he's going to jail. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=102063 If people would just look at themselves before criticizing others we'd live in a much better world. This is prison: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=136858 Do you wish this on Savior? + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDLPQiboykY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSDwB-5xFok http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txtAyoKLh3A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb2CU6A7uZ0 FUUUUUUUUUUUCK NOT THE HOT_BID VIDEO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, fuck that thing makes me feel so bad. While i don't believe any of the match fixers should be allowed to play again(i will stand by this till the end) I do believe they should be respected because their skill isnt in question just their morals..(ffs savior revolutionized zerg) | ||
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Therick
Norway324 Posts
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ForSC2
United States580 Posts
On July 20 2010 23:40 MaTaAeRuKaNa wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2010 16:15 ForSC2 wrote: Sir, I can think of a lot of things much more disgusting the fans/community do then standing by someone that gave up their life to be discredited and villainized for the best parts, pitied and humiliated for the worst parts, and discredited and villianized again forever at the lowest point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131156 Every time I see things like Sangho I think there's something very wrong with this world. Most match fixers got a few thousand dollars when they literally gave up everything in life to play a game while being the same age or younger than we are. If you said go.go go hang yourself do you think that's appropriate? If someone said Sangho go kill yourself match fixer would that be right? Do you really think the core of what happened to Sangho was because of Savior or the mob mentality of the fans? Do you realize not one person apologized to Sangho or took responsibility. Everyone blamed the "Korean" netizens when people here had the exact same attitude. And even if people did apologize what could it do? His father collapsed in the hospital and he genuinely considered suicide. You think Savior caused that? Do you really think standing by Savior is the most disgusting thing the fans/community does? I'm going to say this plainly, the core of the mob mentality, fans had that caused Sangho to contemplate suicide is the same core that caused Savior's psychological damage and mental state. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNqrvSXCzWU That's why it bothered me when I'd see people ragging on Savior when the guy experienced more mental hardships from Starcraft than any other player and I'd imagine he justifiably hates the game. Sangho contemplated suicide after 2 months. How long has Savior been where he is? I struggled to explain this a long time ago and frankly I didn't do a good job, and now he's going to jail. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=102063 If people would just look at themselves before criticizing others we'd live in a much better world. This is prison: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=136858 Do you wish this on Savior? + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDLPQiboykY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSDwB-5xFok http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txtAyoKLh3A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb2CU6A7uZ0 Wow. This should be a final edit Sir, thank you. I mentioned this vaguely http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5331509 and haven't been able to commit the time to expand on it. It bothers me to see such prevailing opinions where any support is held in the highest level of contempt. I don't comment on his morals because I don't know him. Frankly, I believe he arranged matches and did it out of spite rather than money, but even that's conjecture. What I do know is he experienced more mental hardships from Starcraft than any one I'd ever seen and it was that, not his skill that was the real reason I liked him so much, that someone climbed so high yet still seemed to be the perpetual whipping boy. Savior's probably going to prison, but I wish this could be voiced. Because I feel no one notices it when after 8 years this is the moment the support of the fans truly matter. I want to show why I support Savior because I believe my beliefs are less common and hopefully insightful. I have trouble right now to commit time to fully show it, but it is something I truly want to commit the effort to attempt. Thank you for responding. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 21 2010 04:20 ForSC2 wrote: What I do know is he experienced more mental hardships from Starcraft than any one I'd ever seen and it was that, not his skill that was the real reason I liked him so much, that someone climbed so high yet still seemed to be the perpetual whipping boy. Were you there when GO team was still an un-sponsored team? When Xellos and Coach Cho were literally paying for the team's food and apartment out of their own pockets? Savior was certainly there. He didn't make it big till 2005--he definitely knew what Xellos and Coach Cho were giving in order to give their team the chance to grow. Savior at least was a progamer during a time where he could at least guarantee that he'd have some stability--its not like he was going from tournament to tournament worrying whether his winnings would be enough to support the team till the next event. This match-fixing scandal put the entire South Korean esports industry at risk--someone as big as Savior has a defining impact on peoples' image of esports. If sponsors decided that they didn't want to be associated with that kind of negative image, Korean pro teams could collapse overnight. Savior's predecessors on CJ Entus went through a hell of a lot more to even get the team going. What right does Savior have to jeopardize the fruits of their labor just because he feels like he deserves more? | ||
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KinosJourney2
Sweden1811 Posts
If i was working my ass off like he did and had fallen from greatness i'd sure as hell would have done the same thing, just the thing about getting others into it was dumb. But i still forgive him, he will always be one of my favorite BW players of all time. I wish he comes back for SC2. | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
What's done is done. | ||
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
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minus_human
4784 Posts
That's why it bothered me when I'd see people ragging on Savior when the guy experienced more mental hardships from Starcraft than any other player and I'd imagine he justifiably hates the game. Sangho contemplated suicide after 2 months. How long has Savior been where he is? Hello. Have you ever heard of Lee Yoon Yeol ? What you're saying seems like mostly bullcrap to me, sorry if I offend you but it's how I feel. | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
Anyway savior i will always be your fan, and even tho many people will try and forget you- i never will, becuase in my eyes, you did something worth doing- even if the world doesn't think it at the time. | ||
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
On July 19 2010 10:55 koreasilver wrote: He's an idiot for what he did but it still doesn't change that Jaedong is the best Zerg of all time. Fixed  | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
It is a sad truth that progamers live in pretty bad conditions, this is true Misrah. However it's not like the industry can sustain the demand of people trying to get into it either. I'll admit that a bit needs to be done to benefit their conditions, however I also think that people should be discouraged from going too far into a progaming career. Imagine there were a starcraft entrance exam. Every 13 year old has a chance to qualify to be a progamer once. If they don't show potential, they are cut, and know that they have no chance to become a progamer so they focus on careers that have a better chance of working out. I think this is more important right now to minimize the pool of potential players. If a player has not started starcraft by 13, he has no chance of becoming a progamer in this day and age. | ||
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
its okay to call just, when someone doesn't pick up and calls u back, u might wanna pick up | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On July 21 2010 12:08 OreoBoi wrote: I don't really understand why there's so much hate for savior. Given the chance to make millions of dollar by making mistakes in a game that could happen anyways, most people would take up that offer. Millions of won, not millions of dollars. But anyway, a lot of people hated Savior anyway. It seemed like all of Jaedong's fans and all of Bisu's fans hated him, not to mention many fans of Reach, Nal_Ra, Chojja and iloveoov. Even when he was in bonjwa mode he was very hated. | ||
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
Long Live Ma Jae Yoon! Long Live Hong Jin-Ho ! Long Live Lee Jae dong!! Boxer, Nada, and Oov are the villains, and these men are the heroes who slew them | ||
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