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On May 27 2010 22:39 Angel[BTL] wrote:
It slams you in the face with the greater reality.
It's not reality, much less a "greater reality". They are merely thoughts caused by you being extremely high. I agree that there are truths that can be realized when you are under the influence of various drugs. However, certain people such as yourself speak of these experiences as if they're real, or they exist in another "dimension". There's no evidence that anything you experience there actually exists. And if you want to experience the same things that shamans do then you shouldn't take a 40x extract which is terribly unnatural.
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On May 28 2010 19:20 Lefnui wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 22:39 Angel[BTL] wrote:
It slams you in the face with the greater reality. It's not reality, much less a "greater reality". They are merely thoughts caused by you being extremely high. I agree that there are truths that can be realized when you are under the influence of various drugs. However, certain people such as yourself speak of these experiences as if they're real, or they exist in another "dimension". There's no evidence that anything you experience there actually exists. And if you want to experience the same things that shamans do then you shouldn't take a 40x extract which is terribly unnatural.
I was pointing out that meditation has also the same kind of experiences like using drugs. In this case the argument that you're really high doesn't stand. Until you experience for yourself you are speaking through belief. That's why open minded skepticism should be your approach. When you've gone through by experiencing it you'll have a different view and then you can state your opinion.
In the end it doesn't matter if the experience is real according to physical laws (which for me is a biased point of view that can only hinder you in the long run) but what you can actually learn from it. For people who don't think or believe that the experiences are real there's only one way to find out and that is to actually die. I'm sure that in the front of the evidence at the time of your death there is no other way but to go forward and say : Oh ! I was wrong  . From your point of view it is just speculation and it is not based on common scientific approved knowledge. And that's ok too . You can only learn at your own pace. Time will tell.
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On May 28 2010 03:21 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Camera in hand? Where are the pics/vids?
Safely on my hard drive away from the harshness of the interwebs, especially TL ^_^
On May 28 2010 19:20 Lefnui wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 22:39 Angel[BTL] wrote:
It slams you in the face with the greater reality. It's not reality, much less a "greater reality". They are merely thoughts caused by you being extremely high. I agree that there are truths that can be realized when you are under the influence of various drugs. However, certain people such as yourself speak of these experiences as if they're real, or they exist in another "dimension". There's no evidence that anything you experience there actually exists. And if you want to experience the same things that shamans do then you shouldn't take a 40x extract which is terribly unnatural.
Higher potency extracts are merely there to facilitate the absorption process, equaling less harmful smoke inhaled into your lungs in the end.
The damage from smoking dried leaves is incomparably greater than smoking extracts, although I do agree 40x extract is probably too potent to be used on a regular basis.
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On May 28 2010 19:49 Angel[BTL] wrote:
I was pointing out that meditation has also the same kind of experiences like using drugs. In this case the argument that you're really high doesn't stand.
Of course my argument doesn't answer meditation, because I obviously wasn't responding to that. I was clearly speaking about the high that salvia offers. 'Same kind of experiences'? Be careful, you're conflating things which aren't comparable at all. I guarantee no one has ever had an experience from meditation which even vaguely resembles the high from an intense hallucinogenic like salvia. And even if they did, there's no evidence to suggest it.
Until you experience for yourself you are speaking through belief. That's why open minded skepticism should be your approach.
I have experienced vivid hallucinations from various drugs. The difference is that I have the logic to understand that my experiences didn't actually occur, they were delusions. A detached, scientific and logical approach would do you well.
When someone falsely describes their own approach as 'open-mindedness' my response is always the same: "Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out".
When you've gone through by experiencing it you'll have a different view and then you can state your opinion.
That's nonsense, I can rightfully state my opinion regardless. I can't speak to what the high is like because I haven't taken salvia. But if someone like yourself is illogical enough to claim that their experiences were part of "a greater reality" then I can easily refute them. A subjective experience with absolutely no evidence does not support other dimensions or some hidden reality. You may as well take someones word for it when they say that they've been to Hell and came back.
In the end it doesn't matter if the experience is real according to physical laws (which for me is a biased point of view that can only hinder you in the long run)
Physical laws are a biased point of view? You have me laughing now. What does that even mean?
For people who don't think or believe that the experiences are real there's only one way to find out and that is to actually die. I'm sure that in the front of the evidence at the time of your death there is no other way but to go forward and say : Oh ! I was wrong
Again, complete and utter nonsense. Why would your experiences on salvia be confirmed by death? That makes no sense at all. And what if there's nothing after you die? Then obviously you couldn't be proven right or wrong about anything, including religion. You don't need to wait until you die, I have the answer for your already: you're wrong.
From your point of view it is just speculation and it is not based on common scientific approved knowledge. And that's ok too . You can only learn at your own pace. Time will tell.
Being condescended to by an idiot, I love it.
It is not speculation to be at the default position. You're the one speculating, making the assumption that there's another dimension or plane of reality simply because you got high. 'Scientific approved knowledge' couldn't be less relevant to this case. How could any scientific knowledge exist regarding something which is as subjective and abstract as a person's hallucinations? The only way in which science is relevant is this: You should look at these matters in a scientific way. That is to say don't believe nonsense without a scrap of evidence. I don't think you'll ever learn, not even at a snail's pace. But only time will tell.
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Take what you need and learn from it. I'm not going to argue with you.
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You were already arguing with me, then I refuted every ridiculous point you made. Then after that you're finished? What a coincidence.
If you can't respond to what I said, then just read it and learn from it. I'm done with you.
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I am not going to respond because you will stay with your opinions and me with mine so there is no point in continuing other than arguing for the sake of arguing. People who want more information on these subjects will look further and make an idea for themselves. Everybody uses discernment according to their personal experience.
There is no more need for a flame war on the subject of who knows better and who is smarter or any other ego debating discussions.
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On May 28 2010 21:00 Angel[BTL] wrote:
There is no more need for a flame war on the subject of who knows better and who is smarter or any other ego debating discussions.
Arguing does not amount to a "flame war" or "ego debating". You were the first one to insult, so if anyone is trying to make it those things then it's you. And you were fine with arguing before.
It's simple: you have no reply to anything I said. You spouted a bunch of baseless nonsense that you can't back up. If you dislike arguments then you shouldn't do that because it usually provokes a response.
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On May 28 2010 21:11 Lefnui wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 21:00 Angel[BTL] wrote:
There is no more need for a flame war on the subject of who knows better and who is smarter or any other ego debating discussions. Arguing does not amount to a "flame war" or "ego debating". You were the first one to insult, so if anyone is trying to make it those things then it's you. And you were fine with arguing before. It's simple: you have no reply to anything I said. You spouted a bunch of baseless nonsense that you can't back up. If you dislike arguments then you shouldn't do that because it usually provokes a response.
Show me the quote in which I insulted you.
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Salvias ok.
Try Acid. And to angel saying 'just meditate'. Sorry, but thats not how hallucinogens work, no amount of meditation would make you see or think the way you do on acid etc.
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On May 28 2010 21:27 Angel[BTL] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 21:11 Lefnui wrote:On May 28 2010 21:00 Angel[BTL] wrote:
There is no more need for a flame war on the subject of who knows better and who is smarter or any other ego debating discussions. Arguing does not amount to a "flame war" or "ego debating". You were the first one to insult, so if anyone is trying to make it those things then it's you. And you were fine with arguing before. It's simple: you have no reply to anything I said. You spouted a bunch of baseless nonsense that you can't back up. If you dislike arguments then you shouldn't do that because it usually provokes a response. Show me the quote in which I insulted you.
If you're going to continue to argue, as you falsely claimed you wouldn't do, then actually respond to what I said. I contradicted every single thing you stated earlier.
Here are the insults:
I'm sure that in the front of the evidence at the time of your death there is no other way but to go forward and say : Oh ! I was wrong
And that's ok too . You can only learn at your own pace. Time will tell.
I shouldn't even have to explain why those comments are extremely condescending.
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First off I have to say no amount of meditation can ever come close to the effects of salvia - also salvia as far as hallucinations go are on a whole different level then LSD/shrooms. LSD in general you may get some colors and such but there is no completely long vivd hallucinations. For those who are au natural taking acid is the equivalent to a chemical version of Shroomz(talkin like 6g+). Oh and as for "the trip being reality" .. no - thats like saying our dreams are just us in another world in astral form dun dun dun. For my entertaining story?
I decided one night it would be intelligent to high heat a huge bowl of salvia (it was only x20 but you can't completely go by that number since that just is how much times the original strength it was, so the stronger the base the better the extract from what I understand). So I take this huge hit off the water bong and hand off the bong as I fall back into my bed(keep in mind when I feel back it just felt like my head fell straight back and my body stayed where it was), what happens next can only be described as time itsself stopping - the whole room appeared to motion blur then come to a halt and I heard something similar to a train engine - I can't quite remember how I shifted to this next part of my trip but I went from being in my room to seeing my room passing by frame by frame in the center of my vision - also there were bald blue people wearing black clothes who were working along to make sure everything went smooth and putting the frames together. Me naturally being nice decided to offer my help - as I was trying to help I was moving along the frames then in the room was a big clear bubble that appeared to be my room when I was young. I saw the person who I was doing up the salvia with(never trip alone!) playing what appeared to be an old SNES. He started telling me that someone was coming and I had to come back in, so I was half in - half out of this bubble trying to get back in my room and it felt like my body was split between the feelings oddly enough I was still talking to the blue people on the non reality side of the bubble. I slowly started coming back to and looked up above me (I was on a bunk bed) and inbetween the white railings the matress started cycling downwards fast but when it stopped instead of the flowers it was the blue peoples head again(I started offering to work for them lol) as I came back they stopped talking to me - I can't really recall the speech this was a year or two ago now but its something I wont forget the general idea of cause my mind was blown for like the next couple days. The funny part though was the sound of my laugh apparently it was a mix between something with 0 intelligence and gasping for breath at the same time is the best way to describe it.
I hope thats not too hard to read..its hard to put an experience that has so many feelings and imagery into words without missing parts especially given its been a while since then.
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On May 28 2010 23:51 Lefnui wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 21:27 Angel[BTL] wrote:On May 28 2010 21:11 Lefnui wrote:On May 28 2010 21:00 Angel[BTL] wrote:
There is no more need for a flame war on the subject of who knows better and who is smarter or any other ego debating discussions. Arguing does not amount to a "flame war" or "ego debating". You were the first one to insult, so if anyone is trying to make it those things then it's you. And you were fine with arguing before. It's simple: you have no reply to anything I said. You spouted a bunch of baseless nonsense that you can't back up. If you dislike arguments then you shouldn't do that because it usually provokes a response. Show me the quote in which I insulted you. If you're going to continue to argue, as you falsely claimed you wouldn't do, then actually respond to what I said. I contradicted every single thing you stated earlier. Here are the insults: Show nested quote +I'm sure that in the front of the evidence at the time of your death there is no other way but to go forward and say : Oh ! I was wrong I shouldn't even have to explain why those comments are extremely condescending.
I apologize if I have offended you. That was not my intention. I will choose my words better next time.
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I love blogs like this because of the description of the words! I especially like:
+ Show Spoiler +"The author of the Matrix Trilogy must have been tripping fucking llama testicles on Salvia"...
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EPT
