• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:52
CEST 02:52
KST 09:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202524Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder4EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced38BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins EWC 2025 The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings EWC 2025 - Replay Pack #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder BW General Discussion Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Shield Battery Server New Patch
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL] Non-Korean Championship - Final weekend [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Recover Binance Asset - Lost Recovery Masters Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Flash @ Namkraft Laddernet …
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 656 users

Ever)T(Piano's "Gay" TvP

Blogs > OMin
Post a Reply
OMin
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States545 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 21:14:46
May 11 2010 21:08 GMT
#1
So after coming across Ever)T(Piano's name in a low apm progamer thread, I went ahead to find out a little more about him. Here are the threads I found:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=38717
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=38718
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=40608

here is a link to his replays available on TL:
http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/index.php?player1=ever)t(piano&team1_race=&map=&description=&uploader=&player2=&team2_race=&search=1

Everybody seems to be bashing him for having "gay" TvP style.... well known and respected community members like FrozenArbiter and DaZe all seem to have a great consensus on how lame his TvP is: turtle off Fast double armory into fast 3rd base.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm does this seem ever so familiar now?

I know flash isn't the guy that invented the double armory build, he just honed it to a much sharper point.

But I'm wondering why flash or any other progamer today that choose to utilize the double armory build aren't considered "gay" by everybody... judging by how piano's style plowed through 200/200 toss armies with significant leftover forces on his side, I don't see why he was discredited as a "gay", when his style obviously worked well against the tosses of his time (and now its a very standard style to play TvP in today).

I started watching pro starcraft with real understanding starting in about 2008, so I am very unfamiliar with the metagame that piano would've played in... around 2006 for these games.

***
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 11 2010 21:11 GMT
#2
People play TvP differently now compared to then.
OMin
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States545 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 21:14:35
May 11 2010 21:14 GMT
#3
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
May 11 2010 21:19 GMT
#4
times have changed, and maybe piano was just doing it because he didnt have the apm to harass or multitask so people felt it was a cop-out. flash does it because he is so flawless at executing it, and his sublime defenses are actually appreciable.
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 21:23:49
May 11 2010 21:23 GMT
#5
We should blame whatever Protoss Reached the idea of taking a fast 3rd for the acceptance of this style of play. Really, with that massive turn towards macro play in PvT cute 3port wraith/ nuke-rush play has become near impossible impossible to pull off, as you just get stam-rolled by a massive army.

Also, Flash's style came in right when the Six Dragons were destroying on (carrier imba) maps where Protoss went carriers (and most likley won, see Blue Storm, Katrina), and it blocked that strat really well.
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 11 2010 21:31 GMT
#6
ever)t(piano whos on woojin now never had low apm. He was also one of the top amateurs for a long time. What I remember was on maps like R-point which had so many bases and was such a big map it was common for terrans to not attack until they were maxed out. Tosses back then also didn't tech to arbiters early enough so 200/200 terran armies were extremely difficult to deal with especially with upgrades. Nowadays everyone plays differently and uses better builds so this kind of turtle till 200/200 tvp style doesn't really work anymore. If terran doesn't come out for 15 minutes toss can just keep recalling to make sure T never comes out. Basically when people have trouble dealing with something they call it "gay."
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
May 11 2010 22:06 GMT
#7
people are just bitchy, he's style isn't gay, its what he does to win. DT rushers are much more gay imo.
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
Nytefish
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United Kingdom4282 Posts
May 11 2010 22:13 GMT
#8
What does it mean to play in a gay fashion anyway?
No I'm never serious.
lowbright
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
308 Posts
May 11 2010 23:54 GMT
#9
On May 12 2010 07:13 Nytefish wrote:
What does it mean to play in a gay fashion anyway?


it's a description of a game as portrayed by the loser
TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #49
prototype.
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada4200 Posts
May 12 2010 00:25 GMT
#10
TvP can't get more homosexual than this.
( ・´ー・`)
OMin
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States545 Posts
May 12 2010 01:06 GMT
#11
On May 12 2010 08:54 lowbright wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2010 07:13 Nytefish wrote:
What does it mean to play in a gay fashion anyway?


it's a description of a game as portrayed by the loser


strangely enough, piano's play was called "gay" by 2 other terran players (frozenarbiter, daze)

doubleupgradeobbies!
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Australia1187 Posts
May 12 2010 01:23 GMT
#12
Well, I for one am consistent. I consider the modern terran trend of just mass turtled bases pretty gay :D
MSL, 2003-2011, RIP. OSL, 2000-2012, RIP. Proleague, 2003-2012, RIP. And then there was none... Even good things must come to an end.
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11390 Posts
May 12 2010 01:29 GMT
#13
On May 12 2010 10:06 OMin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2010 08:54 lowbright wrote:
On May 12 2010 07:13 Nytefish wrote:
What does it mean to play in a gay fashion anyway?


it's a description of a game as portrayed by the loser


strangely enough, piano's play was called "gay" by 2 other terran players (frozenarbiter, daze)


FA was protoss then.

He then quits BW later and then starts playing again as Terran. (sometime around when medusa was in map pool)
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17727 Posts
May 12 2010 02:17 GMT
#14
where have you been people call flash gay all the time
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 221
RuFF_SC2 70
SpeCial 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 753
ggaemo 353
NaDa 113
Aegong 42
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K755
taco 426
Foxcn238
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox466
Other Games
summit1g13352
shahzam1214
Day[9].tv947
monkeys_forever197
C9.Mang0193
Maynarde176
Livibee173
ViBE154
Trikslyr80
Sick54
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1682
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH171
• Hupsaiya 72
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 17
• Azhi_Dahaki14
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22835
League of Legends
• Doublelift6190
• TFBlade582
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur603
Other Games
• Day9tv947
Upcoming Events
DaveTesta Events
8m
davetesta52
The PondCast
9h 8m
Online Event
15h 8m
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs TBD
Online Event
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs TBD
OSC
4 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
Yuqilin POB S2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.