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Was fairly amused when reading the wiki definition of 'irony' (a word that always perplexes me as to its correct application) and came across this little description of a method of argumentation employed by Socrates:
Socratic irony
"The dissimulation of ignorance practised by Socrates as a means of confuting an adversary" (OED, under irony). Socrates would pretend to be ignorant of the topic under discussion, in order to draw out the inherent nonsense in the arguments of his interlocutors. Chambers dictionary has: "a means by which a questioner pretends to know less than a respondent, when actually he knows more."
Zoe Williams of The Guardian wrote: "The technique [of Socratic irony], demonstrated in the Platonic dialogues, was to pretend ignorance and, more sneakily, to feign credence in your opponent's power of thought, in order to tie him in knots."
A fairly amusing thought, I would venture:
![[image loading]](http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/HamerD/socrates.png)
 
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United States24751 Posts
No that's not trolling really... he wasn't doing it to upset the other person (from what we can tell)... he was doing it as a method for getting his point across.
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On May 12 2010 04:07 micronesia wrote:
No that's not trolling really... he wasn't doing it to upset the other person (from what we can tell)... he was doing it as a method for getting his point across.
Trolls still have points that they want to get across.
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United States24751 Posts
On May 12 2010 04:10 Saturnize wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:07 micronesia wrote:
No that's not trolling really... he wasn't doing it to upset the other person (from what we can tell)... he was doing it as a method for getting his point across. Trolls still have points that they want to get across.
No they don't.
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On May 12 2010 04:11 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:10 Saturnize wrote:On May 12 2010 04:07 micronesia wrote:
No that's not trolling really... he wasn't doing it to upset the other person (from what we can tell)... he was doing it as a method for getting his point across. Trolls still have points that they want to get across. No they don't.
Wrong. They are just often labeled as trolls by forum dummies, because it's easier for dummies to label someone a troll than to find a valid counter-argument.
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Socrates --------> ENLIGHTENMENT! PROGRESS! LOGIC!
--- That momentary lull of false ignorance ---
Troll --------> lolyousuck. RAGE! ANGER! WTF?!
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United States24751 Posts
On May 12 2010 04:12 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:11 micronesia wrote:On May 12 2010 04:10 Saturnize wrote:On May 12 2010 04:07 micronesia wrote:
No that's not trolling really... he wasn't doing it to upset the other person (from what we can tell)... he was doing it as a method for getting his point across. Trolls still have points that they want to get across. No they don't. Wrong. They are just often labeled as trolls by forum dummies, because it's easier for dummies to label someone a troll than to find a valid counter-argument.
Wait... you think I define troll as the kind of people who forum dummies think are trolling when they really aren't? Rethink what you just said lol
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I just thought it was funny to imagine Socrates saying he had a big pen0r tbh...
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United States24751 Posts
On May 12 2010 04:17 sc4k wrote:
I just thought it was funny to imagine Socrates saying he had a big pen0r tbh...
Yeah I completely agree with you that this is a pretty interesting/funny finding. I'm also going to try it out sometime :3
edit: I think it's pretty difficult to use this method effectively but I could be wrong.
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Plato was a douchebag. By the transitive property, so was Socrates. Therefore, yes, Socrates was a troll.
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omg i never realized how hard Plato was trolling in "The Republic"
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Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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On May 12 2010 04:12 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:11 micronesia wrote:On May 12 2010 04:10 Saturnize wrote:On May 12 2010 04:07 micronesia wrote:
No that's not trolling really... he wasn't doing it to upset the other person (from what we can tell)... he was doing it as a method for getting his point across. Trolls still have points that they want to get across. No they don't. Wrong. They are just often labeled as trolls by forum dummies, because it's easier for dummies to label someone a troll than to find a valid counter-argument.
I see what you did there.
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On May 12 2010 04:32 ProoM wrote:
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
The fuck?
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8751 Posts
Yeah I think he may have been the original troll. He would talk in such a way to make people look idiotic and become annoyed. When he did this to his friends their response was sort of like "damn it Socrates, just tell me what you think already" but in a respectful way. When he did it to others, well, the city ended up having him killed.
The things we read of Socrates appear more constructive than perhaps they actually were because Plato wrote the dialogues down as a way to teach philosophy. Socrates probably was really very annoying and disruptive. Of all the possible ways to present his philosophy, he definitely chose the trolliest.
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Socrates proved what ultimately happens to trolls.
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On May 12 2010 04:47 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Yeah I think he may have been the original troll. He would talk in such a way to make people look idiotic and become annoyed. When he did this to his friends their response was sort of like "damn it Socrates, just tell me what you think already" but in a respectful way. When he did it to others, well, the city ended up having him killed.
The things we read of Socrates appear more constructive than perhaps they actually were because Plato wrote the dialogues down as a way to teach philosophy. Socrates probably was really very annoying and disruptive. Of all the possible ways to present his philosophy, he definitely chose the trolliest.
The original trolls (circa 1996) probably had a method similar to what Socrates actually did, but trolls these days there posts usually consist of the following:
Omg wtf hi guys roflcopter, I was just wondering if there was any discussions about Marauders going on here, because I search and not find, okie, thanx.
But I can recall back in the days of SC1 just launching that some people who may be called trolls now, actually have a good point to get across.
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o ok i guess i missed this one. God i hate 4chan 
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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On May 12 2010 05:05 Foreplay wrote:o ok i guess i missed this one. God i hate 4chan
Hahahaha owned fore.
I got owned by that yesterday, actually funny meme
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Yea I used to think about this a lot when studying the dialogues. Socrates is definitely the ancestor of trolling, although Socratic Irony is one of like two or three different interpretations of his strategy. Most of the time Socrates stresses he does not know the answer to his questions and is merely trying to seek out truth. There are some conversations however, especially the passages with Callicles in Gorgias where the entire thing reads exactly like a TL flame war. They both get pissed at each other and become extremely bitter and sarcastic while disregarding everything the other person says. It's probably my fav dialogue out of the few I've read.
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On May 12 2010 04:47 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Yeah I think he may have been the original troll. He would talk in such a way to make people look idiotic and become annoyed. When he did this to his friends their response was sort of like "damn it Socrates, just tell me what you think already" but in a respectful way. When he did it to others, well, the city ended up having him killed.
We should still do this sometimes
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On May 12 2010 04:12 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:11 micronesia wrote:On May 12 2010 04:10 Saturnize wrote:On May 12 2010 04:07 micronesia wrote:
No that's not trolling really... he wasn't doing it to upset the other person (from what we can tell)... he was doing it as a method for getting his point across. Trolls still have points that they want to get across. No they don't. Wrong. They are just often labeled as trolls by forum dummies, because it's easier for dummies to label someone a troll than to find a valid counter-argument.
This is so wrong.
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On May 12 2010 05:59 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:12 Sadistx wrote:On May 12 2010 04:11 micronesia wrote:On May 12 2010 04:10 Saturnize wrote:On May 12 2010 04:07 micronesia wrote:
No that's not trolling really... he wasn't doing it to upset the other person (from what we can tell)... he was doing it as a method for getting his point across. Trolls still have points that they want to get across. No they don't. Wrong. They are just often labeled as trolls by forum dummies, because it's easier for dummies to label someone a troll than to find a valid counter-argument. This is so wrong.
It's definitely not, the term troll is often misapplied.
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I don't really think that he was really trolling since he wouldn't just jump in and start throwing around words such as Bonjwa to piss off SC players or start arguing EM is the game mode for skilled people in HoN. He asked General's what bravery was and young boys what love was. More importantly he got the people to agree with a series of statements such as: ( 1. Humans Die, 2. You and me are humans ) which led them to have to agree with a conclusion ( Me and you are going to die )
Sure, there are some similarities but this is by means "trolling". I'll agree he was a troll the day trolling means asking a person who genuinely thinks they are an expert in some matter and do a lingual roller coaster with they until they have to disagree with their original statement
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On May 12 2010 05:56 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:47 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Yeah I think he may have been the original troll. He would talk in such a way to make people look idiotic and become annoyed. When he did this to his friends their response was sort of like "damn it Socrates, just tell me what you think already" but in a respectful way. When he did it to others, well, the city ended up having him killed. We should still do this sometimes
We still do, its called getting a ban.
excessive or disruptive trolling usually earns you one.
Now at least i can feel proud of my troll heritage.
![[image loading]](http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4208/socratesn.jpg)
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I've read some of Socrates stuff and the guy seems to be a huge bullshitter. He'll string together a bunch of statements that sometimes have very little to do with each other in order to "prove" his point.
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2 stars wtf u people are animals
ps at least madkipz played along
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i see trolls in this thread
harmless
but still trolls
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On May 12 2010 06:42 sc4k wrote:
2 stars wtf u people are animals
ps at least madkipz played along
what do you mean animals? yes humans are but what do you mean with that statement?
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United States24751 Posts
On May 12 2010 06:09 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:59 PanN wrote:On May 12 2010 04:12 Sadistx wrote:On May 12 2010 04:11 micronesia wrote:On May 12 2010 04:10 Saturnize wrote:On May 12 2010 04:07 micronesia wrote:
No that's not trolling really... he wasn't doing it to upset the other person (from what we can tell)... he was doing it as a method for getting his point across. Trolls still have points that they want to get across. No they don't. Wrong. They are just often labeled as trolls by forum dummies, because it's easier for dummies to label someone a troll than to find a valid counter-argument. This is so wrong. It's definitely not, the term troll is often misapplied.
He was making a good point but wrong to call me wrong.
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EPT
