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Quick Grammar Question

Blogs > d_so
Post a Reply
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
May 06 2010 03:20 GMT
#1
K so I'm trying to pinpoint any grammatical underpinnings behind the usage of a subject pronoun as an object in a comparative sentence, ie
Daniel is sexier than he.

After a bit of research, here's some of the arguments I found:

1. The word "than" is a conjunction, not a preposition, and therefore the following noun marks the beginning of a new clause and needs to be in subject form.

2. The subject pronoun -- which in the example above is the word "he" -- represent an abbreviated clause, with the main verbs removed and only the noun remaining.

3. The use of the object pronoun, ie "him", is actually not proper grammar because of "than"'s status as a conjunction, not a preposition.

Here's my beef:

1. Only prescriptive grammar pigeonholes a word as versatile as "than" into being a conjunction. For all intents and purposes, "than" practically is a preposition, and no rulebook can change its ubiquitous usage as such. In fact, most linguistics books categorize "than" as a complementizer, not a preposition or a conjunction.

2. Since when was it ok to reduce a clause just to its noun and clam it's proper English? We don't do that with any of our other conjunctions: for example,
I am going to for a walk and Sally.

Does that shit make any sense? You have to include the predicate to clarify what the subject of the new clause is doing. Of course, with "than" usage you have a virtual repetition of the first predicate, (I am stronger than he is), so I guess it can be removed to eliminate redundancy... but isn't that sort of shortening exactly the type of abbreviation proper grammar tries to avoid? 3

3. Object pronoun as informal only makes sense if you insist on "than" as being a conjunction. Also, it flies in the face of millions of examples that demonstrate cogent language use with the object pronoun. You could argue that "just cuz everyone else does it mean doesn't mean it's right"... but that depends on your POV, and I agree with linguists who argue that language is always changing, and the onus is on the grammatical rules to keep pace with the changes, not vice versa.

This is not a case of a mispelling (complement vs compliment) that creates undesired ambiguity within a sentence. The use of the object pronoun clearly acheives the purpose of the comparative sentence and perhaps does an even better job than a subject pronoun could. The only thing that makes it wrong are a small subset of rules.

---

So here's my question:

Can anyone provide me a reliable source that shows subject pronoun use with a "than"-comparative sentence as being either 1.) acceptable, 2.) proper, or 3.) more proper (lol) than object pronoun usage? I've looked everywhere but I can't seem to find it.

manner
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-06 03:30:54
May 06 2010 03:27 GMT
#2
Your argument 2 is correct.

The proper full sentence would be "Danial is sexier than he is". But to make it shorter we omit the verb, because the verb here is obv 'to be'.

But we all use the informal form "than him".

edit : just found this, sums up pretty well : http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/than
ॐ
jonnyp
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States415 Posts
May 06 2010 03:31 GMT
#3
Not so sure if this is a 'quick' grammar question lol. I think this is one of those things that people won't entirely agree on, like splitting the infinitive. To me both sound fine and that's what I usually judge it by, but that doesn't help you much :/. That being said I think 'he' is more technically correct because like you mentioned it is a shortening of 'he is'. However, like you I tend to agree that language is constantly being redefined.
The number of years it takes for the Internet to move past anything is way, way over 9000.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-06 03:35:39
May 06 2010 03:34 GMT
#4
On May 06 2010 12:27 endy wrote:
Your argument 2 is correct.

The proper full sentence would be "Danial is sexier than he is". But to make it shorter we omit the verb, because the verb here is obv 'to be'.

But we all use the informal form "than him".

edit : just found this, sums up pretty well : http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/than


thanks, that was actually really helpful

Whether than is to be followed by the objective or subjective case of a pronoun is much discussed in usage guides. When, as a conjunction, than introduces a subordinate clause, the case of any pronouns following than is determined by their function in that clause: He is younger than I am. I like her better than I like him. When than is followed only by a pronoun or pronouns, with no verb expressed, the usual advice for determining the case is to form a clause mentally after than to see whether the pronoun would be a subject or an object. Thus, the sentences He was more upset than I and She gave him more sympathy than I are to be understood, respectively, as He was more upset than I was and She gave him more sympathy than I gave him. In the second sentence, the use of the objective case after than ( She gave him more sympathy than me ) would produce a different meaning ( She gave him more sympathy than she gave me ). This method of determining the case of pronouns after than is generally employed in formal speech and writing.
Than occurs as a preposition in the old and well-established construction than whom : a musician than whom none is more expressive. In informal, especially uneducated, speech and writing, than is usually treated as a preposition and followed by the objective case of the pronoun: He is younger than me. She plays better poker than him, but you play even better than her. See also but1 , different, me.


so i guess i write/speak in an uneducated and informal way.

---

On May 06 2010 12:31 jonnyp wrote:
Not so sure if this is a 'quick' grammar question lol.


well it started off quick and then i got mad
manner
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