If people are still curious as to why I decided to get a Macbook Pro though, here are the top reasons: + Show Spoiler +
Love the Leopard OSX Ability to run both OSX and Windows on one computer Spectacular customer support Stability and Endurance
Hello everyone else! I'm currently trying to figure out which MBP to get for next year. The computer definitely needs to be able to play StarCraft 2, but I want it set up in such a way that it will last well for the next few years. I already have some base decisions made:
Macbook Pro 15' 2.66GHz Intel Core i7 Processor NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M with 512MB
(Asterisks will denote the standard option)
Now the first matter, Memory. Aka RAM. How important is this aspect? Here are the two options. *4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB 8GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB
Hard Drive. They give you a lot of options for your hard drive, but I've pretty much decided on the 500GB @ 7200 rpm. Here are all the options: *500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm 500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm 128GB Solid State Drive 256GB Solid State Drive 512GB Solid State Drive
The SSDs seem really great, but they're super expensive and have a limited writing lifespan.
Display. Alright so here's the classic battle between glossy and matte. I don't really see a lot of plus sides to the glossy besides having richer colors and depth. That sounds great for SC2, I'm sure the game would look great, but glossy is horrible outdoors and causes more eye strain according to a few people I've heard from. Matte also give you more accurate colors and the ability to use it virtually anywhere. Glossy would make SC2 look really nice, but I don't really think it would be worth it in the long run. Standard comes with a 1440x900 pixel glossy display, Hi-Res have 1680x1050 pixel display. *MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display MacBook Pro 15-inch Hi-Res Glossy Widescreen Display MacBook Pro 15-inch Hi-Res Antiglare Widescreen Display
So these are the main points in which I am currently concerned about. Don't worry too much about cost, I'm just trying to get some information on these points, especially memory. How much difference would 4MB and 8MB be?
Thank you very much to everyone in advance. I really appreciate your input.
I have a MBP that is about 1.5 years old and it can run SCII decently. I am sure it will run it better when they release the mac client, because windows xp is fail on a mac. Any of the newer ones should last you a while, especially with the i7 processor.
I'm also specing out a MBP build for my next work computer (I'm a graphic designer) so I've been hashing through similar questions.
For me I have to go max RAM, if only because I need it for design. For SC2, I'd think 4GB is enough. That said, RAM can be had much cheaper if you don't get it from Apple. Apple is notorious for overcharging for BTO options.
I would totally go for SSD if you can afford it. The speed on those things is amazing. Pair it with a large FW800 external drive for backup and you're golden. You may be able to get better deals on SSD outside of Apple but cracking open a MBP to install an SSD drive is not as trivial as upgrading the RAM (which is easy).
Now the display...This is where I'm stuck. I HATE glossy. As a designer it's like the devil. At the same time, the hi-res display doesn't do much for me because I design on a 2nd monitor. However, for gaming, especially SC2 i'd almost prefer the non-hires display? Why? Because less res means less GPU needed. It's not like you gain a ton by having higher res in SC2 anyway, but you have to push to those pixels regardless. To me this is Apple's dumbest move, not allowing matte on the standard res display. On this one I'm still deciding, and most likely will have to go to the Apple store to compare before I finalize my decision (it's also a matter of text being smaller on hi-res, and I'm not getting any younger .
Usually when I buy my Macs (as I have been for 20 years now) I just pimp it out and get the best thing I can. Macs tend to hold their resale value really well, and upgraded ones tend to sell at a premium even 5 years later. Don't ask me why this is, it just is. So I'd go all out unless you're strapped for cash, personally. Also, make sure you get Apple Care if you get a laptop. It's pricey, but if literally anything goes wrong w/ your MBP in the next 3 years, Apple fixes it for free. I hate extended warranties but this is one that's saved me thousands of dollars over the years. That said you don't have to buy it until your original warranty is up (1 year), so you can play the wait and see game if you want.
I'm assuming you're not video editing, so there is basically no reason you would need to go for 8GB of ram. 4 will probably be more than enough for your needs.
I don't think the new Intel SSDs have a shorter lifespan. In fact, it's probably longer than what mechanical HDs can do now.
If it were me, I'd go for the 1680 resolution in matte.
well I did have a nice detailed post written out but then Flash crashed Safari while I was trying to watch a YouTube video, and I lost the whole thing.
FUCK FLASH SO HARD I HATE IT WHAT A PIECE OF UTTER SHIT FUFKCKFDKSAFKJDSAFJDSALFHDSKAHDASHFJKDSJAKFLDSAFL
here's the gist: - 8GB vs 4GB RAM will make no difference unless you want to run virtual machines - if you do get any extra RAM do NOT buy it from Apple, instead buy from newegg and install yourself (it's real real easy) and you will save up to a couple hundred bucks - glossy > matte imo, the colors really pop and the screen is brighter. How often are you going to use your computer outside in direct sun anyway (and matte won't really help you here, since neither finish will make your screen bright enough to compete with sunlight) - seriously consider SSD drives, they will outperform 7200 HD and are much more reliable (I've already had a HD failure in my laptop, about 3 years old, if you haul a laptop around everywhere I feel a HD failure is almost to be expected at least once in its lifetime — that is unless you have SSD)
disclaimer: I'm not super familiar with newer MBPs, my Mac nerd-dom peaked a while ago
On April 26 2010 13:54 FragKrag wrote: JWD that is what you get for using inferior browser
doesn't matter what browser I use, trust me. Firefox, Chrome, Camino, I've tried them all. The problem is the Flash video plugin which is a giant turd. Switching browsers is just: do you want your turd covered in aluminum foil or saran wrap or wax paper?
Answer: it doesn't matter, it's still a fucking turd.
I stick with Safari because at least then I can use ClickToFlash to block Flash by default and save me CPU and headaches.
Though you do have a point in that I think that Chrome can't be crashed by a plugin crash, so I wouldn't have lost my post if I was using it.
On April 26 2010 13:57 FragKrag wrote: JWD that is what you get for using inferior browser
I think you mean an inferior plugin (Flash). Safari (ala Webkit) is by far the fastest and most accurate HTML rendering engine there is. There is no contest.
On April 26 2010 14:01 FragKrag wrote: Safari is like smearing the turd over your face
Chrome is isolating the turd
I'd love to use Chrome but it's missing some features I use a lot in Safari, like option-click to download a file and especially the activity window. Also I hate that Chrome has to be a douche and foist an un-Mac-like interface on me. Oh and also, why does Chrome come with a "Google Updater" application that installs by default, boots automatically at login, and sits in the background eating my CPU and RAM just so that it can check for Chrome updates every so often? Screw that yo.
I've pretty much figured everything out except for the HD vs SSD drive matter. I don't really know how much I'd be willing to pay extra to match the capacity of the HD drives. 512GB SSD drive would be an additional $1,300. I don't think I have the money for that. I would probably be willing to upgrade to a 128GB SSD, but going from 500GB capacity to 128GB capacity seems like a big drop. Do you think it would be worth it?
I might just use an external hard drive to back up a lot of my files anyway, so maybe going for 128GB SSD wouldn't be too bad of an idea.
Penguin you're right on thinking that you do not need a high-capacity drive in your laptop. HD size is one of the dumbest things to consider when buying a laptop, because you're going to be relying on externals no matter what. You only need enough drive space for what you absolutely must carry with you everywhere, and that's not a whole lot.
Since you're undecided on this issue I'll try to pull up the YT video I wanted to show you…it's a pretty big sell for SSDs…
there you go, the part you really want to see is at about 3:40. He does a side-by-side comparison of SSD vs HD, launching a bunch of apps at once.
I'm going to tell you that you do not want an SSD that Apple will sell you.
You're buying old tech, and SSDs fade after usage. Since OS X does not support trim, an inferior controller (THE ONE ON THE SAMSUNG THAT APPLE SELLS YOU HINT HINT), will cause the performance to decay massively overtime.
Get the glossy display, preferably high res. Glossy is super sick. I used to prefer matte, but then I got a nice glossy NEC monitor and it's way better.
I also use mostly glossy photographic paper after trying enough of both, FWIW. Appears sharper, and blacks are way deeper.
On April 26 2010 14:04 IndecisivePenguin wrote: I might just use an external hard drive to back up a lot of my files anyway, so maybe going for 128GB SSD wouldn't be too bad of an idea.
Get the 128GB SSD, and then grab and external 1TB FW800 drive and throw all your files on there (music, movies, etc. NOT games!). Keep your games and OS on the SSD, as well as any VM's you may want to use (if you're into that sorta thing). You should have more than enough room with 128.
The goal is to put anything that's heavy on disk access on the SSD and anything that's not on the external.
On April 26 2010 14:07 FragKrag wrote: I'm going to tell you that you do not want an SSD that Apple will sell you.
You're buying old tech, and SSDs fade after usage. Since OS X does not support trim, an inferior controller (THE ONE ON THE SAMSUNG THAT APPLE SELLS YOU HINT HINT), will cause the performance to decay massively overtime.
Get the Intel X25-M if you want a SSD.
I thought about advising him to buy a SSD and install it himself (that'd save a lot of money) but we have to consider that for a lot of average users, voiding their warranty right out of the gate is a pretty big problem.
Then again, I replaced the HD in my MBP (with a higher-RPM drive) a couple years back and didn't hear a peep from Apple when I sent the computer in to them for repairs (including a HD replacement). However it was out of warranty already — so perhaps they noticed the replacement but didn't care — and it'd obviously be easier to tell that a custom SSD had been installed than a custom HD.
If it was me, I'd buy the MBP with the stock drive and then install a SSD myself. But I don't know how comfortable OP is with that.
I'm really not all that much of a techie guy in terms of hardware. Would it be difficult to replace it?
And I suppose I would have to take the warranty into consideration as well, because Macbooks are pretty dang expensive and it would be nice to be covered on them haha.
On April 26 2010 14:04 IndecisivePenguin wrote: I might just use an external hard drive to back up a lot of my files anyway, so maybe going for 128GB SSD wouldn't be too bad of an idea.
Get the 128GB SSD, and then grab and external 1TB FW800 drive and throw all your files on there (music, movies, etc. NOT games!). Keep your games and OS on the SSD, as well as any VM's you may want to use (if you're into that sorta thing). You should have more than enough room with 128.
The goal is to put anything that's heavy on disk access on the SSD and anything that's not on the external.
This is really good advice. Externals are just so fucking cheap right now there's no reason not to rely on them heavily. Also note that you can use Time Machine to back up both from your laptop's HD and an external HD (I have my music library on an external but don't want that to be the only copy, so I use Time Machine to back the library up to another external).
On April 26 2010 14:13 IndecisivePenguin wrote: I'm really not all that much of a techie guy in terms of hardware. Would it be difficult to replace it?
And I suppose I would have to take the warranty into consideration as well, because Macbooks are pretty dang expensive and it would be nice to be covered on them haha.
I don't know how tough it is, I'd imagine it's something you can do if you just set aside a weekend day for it. And if you're doing it right off the bat, you won't even have to worry about backing up any data.
This is a complicated decision, you need to consider the likelihood that you'll need your warranty and the savings / performance improvement you'll get by using a non-Apple-provided SSD. Look at SSD prices though, I almost guarantee Apple will overcharge by at least a couple hundred bucks versus what you can buy from, say, newegg. When the difference is that much and you consider that non-warranty repairs from Apple are "only" $300…voiding your warranty starts to look more attractive.
Get 4 GB of RAM unless you plan on running virtual machines.
As for the SSD vs HDD, SSDs are amazing but FragKrag is correct that the ones apple uses are significantly worse than the current tech SSDs. That said, even an old SSD is much faster than a mechanical hard drive, even without trim support.
My personal reccomendation would be skip the SSD for now and upgrade it once the prices come down and performance increases.
The main allure of the SSD is the random access, and the random access of the Samsung controller is fucking disappointing in every way possible.
SSD prices are supposed to go down early next year/late this year when 25nm comes onto the market, but nobody really knows right? More recently, the Sandforce controller has finally started to put some pressure on the Intel X25-M G2 so you might see Intel drive prices go down a bit in the next month.
On April 26 2010 14:18 AraqirG wrote: My personal reccomendation would be skip the SSD for now and upgrade it once the prices come down and performance increases.
I don't get this argument w.r.t. computer components. It's a virtual guarantee that everything is going to get cheaper and faster, so I say just buy the best thing currently out there (price and performance considered). Enjoy being cutting edge for a few months, then enjoy still having a machine that is, albeit not relatively, speedy.
If your purchasing strategy is "wait until the best technology becomes cheaper and faster" you're going to spend a lot of time waiting and not a lot of time enjoying your computer
Yeah, it looks a whole lot like the Intel X25-M is pretty much the same price as the one Apple offers, but is 12x better haha. So it'll be really cost effective to just replace it myself. I pretty much just need to know how to do it.
High chance of me screwing something up badly? Would I need to buy a toolkit or something?
On April 26 2010 14:23 IndecisivePenguin wrote: High chance of me screwing something up badly? Would I need to buy a toolkit or something?
now google is your friend, I'm positive there are guides out there as this must be the most common operation people do to their Apple laptops.
good luck!
the only thing I can foresee being a problem is that these new MBPs have that screw-less aluminum case…not sure how you get in there. But I'm sure there's a way, I mean if a nerd at Macworld can do it so can you.
Yeah, it should just be a few screws and then reinstalling the OS. I see people on forums with X25-Ms all the time on Apple Macs so it is very possible. Hard drive were manufactured to be removable, so you really shouldn't need much more than a screwdriver and a youtube video.
Get the smallest amount of RAM they will allow you to buy because apple overprices their ram RIDICULOUSLY. If that's 4GB then you should be set with that, but if you can buy it with only 1 2GB stick of ram, do that and buy another 2GB off newegg or something.
actually the ram apple sells on macbook pros isn't as overpriced as some of their other stuff. High density 4GB modules are actually very expensive, and the fact that it is laptop memory makes it more expensive. Though yeah, it's probably $100 more than you would normally pay.
Im waiting for my new 2010 13" MBP to arrive o/ I need portability, else I'd take the 15" When the new 3rd gen Intel SSD are released this year I'll prolly get that, I dont want current generations SSD that are poorly in writing
I got a MBP kind of involuntarily 3 months ago and I have to say it really surprised me in a good way. Definitely the best portable I have ever used, after I went through Toshiba, Lenovo, Samsung and Fujitsu-Siemens.
About your open question: Go for the Matte display unless you plan to never leave the house (but then why get a notebook?). The reflection is really annoying outside, not only in daylight but also in brightly lit areas like airports or train station.
The display is probably the only thing that I don't like about it. Uhm, well and the keyboard drives me nuts but since you like OSX it will probably suit you.
On April 26 2010 22:39 zatic wrote: I got a MBP kind of involuntarily 3 months ago and I have to say it really surprised me in a good way. Definitely the best portable I have ever used, after I went through Toshiba, Lenovo, Samsung and Fujitsu-Siemens.
About your open question: Go for the Matte display unless you plan to never leave the house (but then why get a notebook?). The reflection is really annoying outside, not only in daylight but also in brightly lit areas like airports or train station.
The display is probably the only thing that I don't like about it. Uhm, well and the keyboard drives me nuts but since you like OSX it will probably suit you.
Thanks for the insight. I think I have decided on the Matte display.
People have these glossy vs matte arguments all the time. It's a preference really. Glossy to me isn't just about horrible reflections (even in doors) but also horrible color accuracy (yes horrible, way too saturated, but most people for whatever reason love blown out distorted colors :/ ).
The only way to *really* know is to find an Apple store (or any local place that sells macs) and see if you can't compare matte to glossy for yourself to make the call.
I would like to bump this because from what I've gathered, SC2 system performance has been evolving during beta and even has changed since release. Does the OP or anyone else with a recent MacBook Pro have anything to report as far as their graphics settings and performance?
I am looking at a new work laptop (Industrial Design) that can run SC2 decently as well. Just curious if the SC Mac community had some recent specifics to share.
But if you do decide to get a macbook for whatever reason, don't be a mactard. Get the memory upgrades and SSD yourself, just go buy generic kingston and a good SSD and put it in yourself and save a fortune.
On August 09 2010 11:46 0neder wrote: I would like to bump this because from what I've gathered, SC2 system performance has been evolving during beta and even has changed since release. Does the OP or anyone else with a recent MacBook Pro have anything to report as far as their graphics settings and performance?
I am looking at a new work laptop (Industrial Design) that can run SC2 decently as well. Just curious if the SC Mac community had some recent specifics to share.
Thanks!
SC2 performs horribly on OSX, and from my understanding this is because of hurdles with the operating system that blizzard doesn't anticipate overcoming. I play SC2 on a 2009 MBP with bootcamp (Windows 7), and the hardware handles it fine on medium settings. The newer Macbook Pros have slight GPU/CPU improvements but for the most part you should plan to run the game with medium graphics settings. Dual-booting to play SC2 is an absolute must - if the cost of windows is turning you off, consider that you will have to spend $20-30 on Steermouse/USBOverdrive just to fix the mouse acceleration in OSX.
Also, unless you plan on playing with an external keyboard, be aware that there is no right-side control key (not that big of a problem in SC2). My only other complaint is the ventilation - the case gets extremely hot and so does the air behind the laptop. Pointing a fan at/around your desk to keep the air circulating is a good idea.
EPT
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