• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:39
CET 22:39
KST 06:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview12Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win1RSL Season 4 announced for March-April6Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April HomeStory Cup 28 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) KSL Week 85
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1847 users

Stupid Business Formula

Blogs > yejin
Post a Reply
yejin
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
France493 Posts
March 16 2010 18:05 GMT
#1
Hi,

I'm thinking about a mathematic formula that could help determine whether a customer is good or bad for a company.

This would include the following parameters


Sales ($$ per year)
Time spent on the phone (hours per year)
Products bought (millions per year)
Complaints received (n per year)
+ maybe a feeling criteria ?


And this would give a rating from a range 1 to 100 for instance that says good or bad.

Is that stupid, is that difficult, does it even make sense, am I too tired and should get back home asap ?

nospeech
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
March 16 2010 18:13 GMT
#2
Isn't this just ABC customer costing?
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
Sirakor
Profile Joined April 2003
Great Britain455 Posts
March 16 2010 18:19 GMT
#3
What do you want to do with the results? I'm not sure if it's a good idea to "eliminate" bad customers. Imho it would be better to have a business model that breaks even with the worst case customer and generates more revenue with "good ones". That along with practices and policies that encourage "good customerness", although this is a very tricky area, not only legally, but also with respect to customer satisfaction.
Sirakor
Profile Joined April 2003
Great Britain455 Posts
March 16 2010 18:21 GMT
#4
Also, it would be better to try to investigate the reasons behind complaints, phone calls etc and try to eliminate the cause, rather than the symptoms ;-)
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
March 16 2010 18:24 GMT
#5
On March 17 2010 03:19 Sirakor wrote:
What do you want to do with the results? I'm not sure if it's a good idea to "eliminate" bad customers. Imho it would be better to have a business model that breaks even with the worst case customer and generates more revenue with "good ones". That along with practices and policies that encourage "good customerness", although this is a very tricky area, not only legally, but also with respect to customer satisfaction.

If you have some customers that are "bad" enough customers to result in a loss or breaking even, what's the point to continue selling to them? I think it would probably be a good idea to contact them first to put forth your position, and see if they are willing to do something to reduce their cost to you. But why would you bother otherwise.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
Sirakor
Profile Joined April 2003
Great Britain455 Posts
March 16 2010 18:26 GMT
#6
On March 17 2010 03:24 sixghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2010 03:19 Sirakor wrote:
What do you want to do with the results? I'm not sure if it's a good idea to "eliminate" bad customers. Imho it would be better to have a business model that breaks even with the worst case customer and generates more revenue with "good ones". That along with practices and policies that encourage "good customerness", although this is a very tricky area, not only legally, but also with respect to customer satisfaction.

If you have some customers that are "bad" enough customers to result in a loss or breaking even, what's the point to continue selling to them? I think it would probably be a good idea to contact them first to put forth your position, and see if they are willing to do something to reduce their cost to you. But why would you bother otherwise.


If you have a lot of these kind of customers, you need to rethink your business model ...
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-16 18:34:33
March 16 2010 18:34 GMT
#7
On March 17 2010 03:26 Sirakor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2010 03:24 sixghost wrote:
On March 17 2010 03:19 Sirakor wrote:
What do you want to do with the results? I'm not sure if it's a good idea to "eliminate" bad customers. Imho it would be better to have a business model that breaks even with the worst case customer and generates more revenue with "good ones". That along with practices and policies that encourage "good customerness", although this is a very tricky area, not only legally, but also with respect to customer satisfaction.

If you have some customers that are "bad" enough customers to result in a loss or breaking even, what's the point to continue selling to them? I think it would probably be a good idea to contact them first to put forth your position, and see if they are willing to do something to reduce their cost to you. But why would you bother otherwise.


If you have a lot of these kind of customers, you need to rethink your business model ...

Why would it matter if you have 1 or 100? Get rid of them or charge them more.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
Polemarch
Profile Joined August 2005
Canada1564 Posts
March 16 2010 19:18 GMT
#8
Is this for one particular company, or are you trying to generalize it? I think it's too hard to try to do it in general (too many factors to consider, many businesses are just radically different), but might make sense for one particular company as a rule of thumb.

e.g.
- Is criticism really bad? You can learn from it.
- As Sirakor pointed out; working on the root cause of complaints/problems is a good idea.
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Service-No-Liberate-Customers/dp/0470189088/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268767029&sr=8-3

- What if these customers are referring you to new customers?
- Or do they have some other possible benefits, like getting your foot into some industry, or strong testimonials?

- In the web 2.0 world, lots of companies lose tiny amounts of money on tons of freebie customers but know that a percentage of them will convert to paid customers.
- What if these customers tend to require a lot of support early on, but then are mostly self-sufficient in future years?

There's a tendency to push the blame towards bad customers rather than being a bad company that doesn't know how to handle them well, because that's easier.
I BELIEVE IN CAPITAL LETTER PUNISHMENT!!!!!
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-16 19:43:06
March 16 2010 19:33 GMT
#9
On March 17 2010 03:05 yejin wrote:
Hi,

I'm thinking about a mathematic formula that could help determine whether a customer is good or bad for a company.

This would include the following parameters


Sales ($$ per year)
Time spent on the phone (hours per year)
Products bought (millions per year)
Complaints received (n per year)
+ maybe a feeling criteria ?


And this would give a rating from a range 1 to 100 for instance that says good or bad.

Is that stupid, is that difficult, does it even make sense, am I too tired and should get back home asap ?

Anyway, what you're basically describing is Activity Based Costing for customers. This is probably a vast oversimplification of how it's actually done, but heres the basics of how you do it.

1. You figure out how much time the people who deal with the criteria you want(# of sales calls, # of complaints, # of orders and average size of orders, are all common drivers)
2. With that info, you make a work matrix. So say your customer service people spend 50% of their work time dealing with complaints, 30% doing x, and 20% doing y. You then multiply their combined salaries for the period by .5 to get the total cost of dealing with customer complaints for the period.
3. After that, you find the total number of complaints from all customers in that period, and divide the cost found in step 2 by the total # of complaints(Total complaint cost / # of complaints). This gives you the approximate unit cost of dealing with one complaint.
4. Then you just multiply the unit cost by one customers total # of complaints that period, and that gives you the amount of customer service cost they accounted for.
5. Then you just do the same thing for all the other criteria you want, and you'll get a more accurate projection of the customer's cost to you.

I'm not sure what you mean by feeling, or assigning customers a rating. Costing methods like this don't take that stuff into account, it's really the job of the managers of the company to factor in those intangible sort of things, and use their judgment to determine if they are significant.

I'm just an accounting student still, so for all I know this might not be how it's actually done in the business world, but this is the sort of thing an accountant would do for you.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
yejin
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
France493 Posts
March 16 2010 23:53 GMT
#10
On March 17 2010 04:33 sixghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2010 03:05 yejin wrote:
Hi,

I'm thinking about a mathematic formula that could help determine whether a customer is good or bad for a company.

This would include the following parameters


Sales ($$ per year)
Time spent on the phone (hours per year)
Products bought (millions per year)
Complaints received (n per year)
+ maybe a feeling criteria ?


And this would give a rating from a range 1 to 100 for instance that says good or bad.

Is that stupid, is that difficult, does it even make sense, am I too tired and should get back home asap ?

Anyway, what you're basically describing is Activity Based Costing for customers. This is probably a vast oversimplification of how it's actually done, but heres the basics of how you do it.

1. You figure out how much time the people who deal with the criteria you want(# of sales calls, # of complaints, # of orders and average size of orders, are all common drivers)
2. With that info, you make a work matrix. So say your customer service people spend 50% of their work time dealing with complaints, 30% doing x, and 20% doing y. You then multiply their combined salaries for the period by .5 to get the total cost of dealing with customer complaints for the period.
3. After that, you find the total number of complaints from all customers in that period, and divide the cost found in step 2 by the total # of complaints(Total complaint cost / # of complaints). This gives you the approximate unit cost of dealing with one complaint.
4. Then you just multiply the unit cost by one customers total # of complaints that period, and that gives you the amount of customer service cost they accounted for.
5. Then you just do the same thing for all the other criteria you want, and you'll get a more accurate projection of the customer's cost to you.

I'm not sure what you mean by feeling, or assigning customers a rating. Costing methods like this don't take that stuff into account, it's really the job of the managers of the company to factor in those intangible sort of things, and use their judgment to determine if they are significant.

I'm just an accounting student still, so for all I know this might not be how it's actually done in the business world, but this is the sort of thing an accountant would do for you.


That's a very interesting read.

To answer some of the questions above. This would be for my personal use and not a general formula which could apply to all business.

I Didnt take the salaries into account and should definitely look into that.
nospeech
yejin
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
France493 Posts
March 16 2010 23:56 GMT
#11
On March 17 2010 04:18 Polemarch wrote:
Is this for one particular company, or are you trying to generalize it? I think it's too hard to try to do it in general (too many factors to consider, many businesses are just radically different), but might make sense for one particular company as a rule of thumb.

e.g.
- Is criticism really bad? You can learn from it.
- As Sirakor pointed out; working on the root cause of complaints/problems is a good idea.
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Service-No-Liberate-Customers/dp/0470189088/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268767029&sr=8-3

- What if these customers are referring you to new customers?
- Or do they have some other possible benefits, like getting your foot into some industry, or strong testimonials?

- In the web 2.0 world, lots of companies lose tiny amounts of money on tons of freebie customers but know that a percentage of them will convert to paid customers.
- What if these customers tend to require a lot of support early on, but then are mostly self-sufficient in future years?

There's a tendency to push the blame towards bad customers rather than being a bad company that doesn't know how to handle them well, because that's easier.


Basically it's not really about Customer Service, we sell computer softwares and when one of our client is really too much of a beginner, it's not worth it for us to work with them because it just takes too much time to get them up to the technology we use.

Of course we could decide to teach everything to everyone but we have limited ressources. Therefore, sometimes, we refuse clients because it's just not gonna work regarding the money they can spend, and the money it will cost us to teach the basics.

However, sometimes, when the income is big enough, we do it.

I was wondering if a formula could help us decide, "are we reasonnable by going further with this client, or is going to be a waste of money for both".
nospeech
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 314
UpATreeSC 155
JuggernautJason150
ForJumy 52
ProTech5
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 230
Hyuk 67
Free 32
NaDa 11
Dota 2
syndereN325
League of Legends
C9.Mang0101
Counter-Strike
fl0m3952
Foxcn105
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu400
Other Games
Grubby4090
Beastyqt725
tarik_tv631
summit1g467
ArmadaUGS199
Harstem195
Mew2King44
Liquid`Ken1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 30
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 18
• Hinosc 9
• Reevou 4
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 67
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2772
• WagamamaTV347
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2854
• TFBlade1892
• Shiphtur421
Other Games
• tFFMrPink 13
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
3h 21m
WardiTV Invitational
14h 21m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
The PondCast
1d 12h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 14h
Replay Cast
2 days
RongYI Cup
3 days
herO vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-02
HSC XXVIII
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W7
Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Disclosure: This page contains affiliate marketing links that support TLnet.

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.